RealElder

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Posts by RealElder

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  77

  Conditional love

  by noidea in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  being raised a jw sometimes you feel you only know conditional love.

  you are only loved if you tow the line.

  i only have one thing to say,.

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  RealElder

  seven006, I have no delusion as to my ability to help people on this board. I am simply making personal comments regarding how I feel we (JW's) should treat people. You have been hurt by the attitude of your parents towards you. Since I have no idea what the story is I'll have to assume that the breakup was very severe in nature, I don't think you simply said "I don't want to be a witness any more" and never spoke about your decision again. If that is all you did I have no explanation for your mothers behavior. I will tell you that there are many active JW's who have a relationship with their children who have left the organization because they no longer believe. I also know that there are parents who can't get past that. As a parent all I can tell you is my wife and I would never do that to our children. Most of our friends who are active JW's also fel the same way. Perhaps there is a new generation of younger witnesses out there who are making up there own mind about these things??? Part of my motivation for posting now after lurking for so long is to see if there are other active JW's out there that share some of my views, are there?

  You asked [Do you immediately revert back to the watchtower societies tool of discipline at that point? Have you read one single thread on this board that you would have to say the poster deserves a life sentience of being exiled from the love of their mother and father?]

  No I don't and none of the men on the body of elders that I am on are that way either. Discipline is tough to administer and tougher to take, I always loose sleep after a judicial meeting. I have read some posts that would indicate the individual posting has some serious issues and an attitude that would probably keep me from associating with them, yet at the same time if they were close to me I wouldn't completely abandon them.

  I'm sorry but I know that nothing I say here will make you feel any better about your situation.
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  77

  Conditional love

  by noidea in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  being raised a jw sometimes you feel you only know conditional love.

  you are only loved if you tow the line.

  i only have one thing to say,.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  RealElder

  Richie, I never heard about Ed Dunlap, but it must have been quite a scandal at Bethel when that happened. This is a good reason why I would never want to go any farther in the org. than I am now. I was PO for a while and went back to Sec. because I didn't like all the contact I had to have with CO's and DO's.
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  77

  Conditional love

  by noidea in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  being raised a jw sometimes you feel you only know conditional love.

  you are only loved if you tow the line.

  i only have one thing to say,.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  RealElder

  noidea, sorry I got you confused with Shaneliza, it is tough keeping track of all the posts. I must admit I'm a little surprised by all the responses to my posts. To answer your question [I heard that if a person read apostate material (like Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz) that 95-98% would leave the org. Why do you think that is so?] I read this book, (found it fascinating) but it didn't shatter my faith in God or JW's. I know others who read it as well and other books. One that sticks in my mind is a book "Armageddon Around The Corner" written in the early 60's. You should read that one especially the chapter on witness's in 2000. I'm afraid that many in the organization are not enough like the Beoreans, real students of Gods word. That's what I try to be and that is what I've taught my children (both in their 20's still JW's). I disn't necessarily raise them to be Pioneers but rather functional adults capable of taking care of themselves financially and spiritually. We had a lot of challenges getting there but it was worth the trip.

  I think if somehow the average witness was to express themselves to you, you would find that they are more "normal" in their thinking than this forum paints them. Remember, there are probably 2,000,000 people in this country that have been or are active witnesse's, most are pretty normal productive people. If they were not, there would be an incredible amount of media coverage about this "cult".

  But I think I'm rambling. Later.
• 
  77

  Conditional love

  by noidea in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  being raised a jw sometimes you feel you only know conditional love.

  you are only loved if you tow the line.

  i only have one thing to say,.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  RealElder

  Noidea, thanks for your patience. You seem like a reasonable, thoughtful person, I wish I could speak with your mother and find out why she has not, at the very least, kept in contact with her grandchildren. Your mother needs to do some research into the latest publications where she will find out several things:
  1. She can associate with you when it comes to necessary family matters. The birth of your children, the care of your children, sickness etc.
  2. She has absolutly no restrictions on her as far as seeing her grandchildren (unless you put them there). In fact, she has a responsibility to try and teach them about God (if you allow her to).

  As far as your questions:
  [We are suppose to have the true faith.] Yes we are, and since we feel we do it is up to us to live up to that responsibility. The fact that some feel we are "crackpots" is really predjudicial. Some JW's are but most are not.

  [They cut their families off if they don't become Witnesses themselves.] They shouldn't, in fact they should try to set the best example they can without compromising on doctrinal issue's. That is admittidly hard for some and some have not done things correctly. I don't know how long you have been "out" but things are changing in this regard (but not in print)!

  [We are told to go and make disciples. I find that hard to do.] So do I. In fact, I think the way we "do service" now is a terrible waste of resources and we should look to another method to get the bible's message out. This could get me in trouble :-)

  [I can understand "New Light" if it's in learning deeper thing about a subject.] This is a big problem for me as well, but not so big that I can't get past the fact that no other religion even comes close to exlaining the bible to me in a way that seems to make sense. I have studied other religions and what they teach and the "truth" still makes the most sense.

  I hope this helps, I'll reply tomorrow if you want one.
• 
  77

  Conditional love

  by noidea in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  being raised a jw sometimes you feel you only know conditional love.

  you are only loved if you tow the line.

  i only have one thing to say,.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  RealElder

  noidea, good questions. I need some time to reply to you, I dont have much time to spend on the internet (so I probably should have stayed off this forum your thinking). You raise a lot of legitimate issues, if I could leave you with one thought; don't give up on Jehovah and don't feel that if you are not associating with JW's you are going to be singled out for punishment by Him. There are a lot of us (elders too), that feel this way and are convinced we have a loving God that judges us by our heart condition.
• 
  77

  Conditional love

  by noidea in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  being raised a jw sometimes you feel you only know conditional love.

  you are only loved if you tow the line.

  i only have one thing to say,.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  RealElder

  "How dare you try to preach unconditional love.." I think it's clear that I am not trying to preach unconditional love. If it isn't, let me say it again. Unconditional love is not true love, it is an excuse used for selfish reasons. Someone may feel that they are able to love unconditional but at some time in their life they will find themselves in a situation that challenges that belief.
• 
  77

  Conditional love

  by noidea in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  being raised a jw sometimes you feel you only know conditional love.

  you are only loved if you tow the line.

  i only have one thing to say,.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  RealElder

  Shaneliza, I have no idea what you did to make your mother treat you this way. I'm assuming you were DF'd and that it is not some other thing that is getting in the way. If your mother were to ask me if she could help you and be with you on important occasions (like childbirth) she would have been told yes, help yor daughter. She also is wrong when she shuns your children. Yours is a terrible example of what is wrong with the thinking of so many witnesses, some of us are trying to do better.
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  77

  Conditional love

  by noidea in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  being raised a jw sometimes you feel you only know conditional love.

  you are only loved if you tow the line.

  i only have one thing to say,.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  RealElder

  Thanks noidea for the kind expression and peace to you. Yes, I am a real elder and no I am not on the way out. However, there is much work to be done in order for this organization to live up to the high standards God sets for those using his name to identify themselves. I have learned a lot from reading the posts on this board and can see that there is a lot of pain out there felt by current and x-dubs. Much of it unjustly delievered to those ones. How about giving me a chance to learn and improve my skills as a shepard? It is only by honest and open communication (granted, not something completed embraced by the Society) that any of us in leadership positions can learn what we need to do to improve the condition so many of our congregations are in.

  The point I was trying to get across with regard to love is that while we should all love on another, we can't let that blind us to the harm some do to themselves and others. It is entirely possible to love someone and still want nothing to do with them!
• 
  77

  Conditional love

  by noidea in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  being raised a jw sometimes you feel you only know conditional love.

  you are only loved if you tow the line.

  i only have one thing to say,.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  RealElder

  Unconditional love is great, as long as it is not used as an excuse to condone unacceptable behavior. Many feel that Jesus had unconditional love for all sinners, but that is just not the case. He often rebuked and condemened individuals for their actions, not simply excuseing them because he loved them. Jesus and Jehovah love the word of mankind, but not everyone is going to be saved are they?

  On the other hand, we must show love wherever possible, never judging people, that's God's job although to many witnesses take on that task for themselves.
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  26

  Elders- "Trained or UnTrained- WHICH IS IT??

  by JT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the biggest error wt has continued to make for the last 120yrs is they leave a wonderful paper trail behind - where a serious student of study will have no problem following and seeing that so many of their lofty claims simply don't fly .

  case in point - are the elders trained or untrained clergymen as it were?.

  well for those of you who have never served as an elder allow me to share with you what elders are told about their training.

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  RealElder

  As elders we only get "training" in the sense of the Pay Attention book, visits twice a year by the CO and an elder "school" every 3 or so years. There is no one-on-one training, except maybe by an older elder or two. Of course the society would like us to also think of the various Watchtower articles as training as well.