Posts by shepherdless

25

Why a drop of over 3,700 publishers in the Democratic Republic of Congo?

by freddo in

jw
friends

looking at the figures for 2014 to 2015 the numbers have dropped from 180,343 to 176,585.. any idea why?.

shepherdless

It is not just the 3,758 that have disappeared, there were 10,274 baptised in 2015 as well, so close to 14,000 must have left or died. That is a turnover of over 8% in a single year.

The numbers for countries in that region tend to be odd. There are similar numbers of lots of baptisms but negative growth for countries such as Malawi and Republic of Congo (the other smaller country with the similar name). On the other hand there growth in publishers in Angola for the last couple of years outstrips the baptisms, which beggars belief as well.

There is often an assumption that this religion is growing in the third world. I think the reality is that it is only growing in places such as Latin America and the Philippines. Even in Angola, if you believe the figures, growth is not quite matching population growth.

I have never been to Sub-Saharan Africa either, by the way.

71

Evolution is a Fact #38 - The Origin of Complex Cells

by cofty in

in 1966 microbiologist kwang jeon was studying a population of amoebae in the lab when they began to die off unexpectedly.

he noticed thousands of tiny dots in the cytoplasm of each individual which turned out to be a bacterial infection.

most of them weakened and died but surprisingly a small percentage recovered and seemed to be back to normal.

shepherdless

I read this thread from start to finish, to try to understand it. There is some fascinating biology referred to above. A lot of it I never knew about before. Anyway, here are some questions for Vidqun, in relation to his/her lengthy last post:

1. Complexity: Isn't your argument is like saying:

"I don't know whether the first car that went past my house this morning was a red car, a blue car, or what colour. There are so many potential colours. Until we can prove what colour it was, we have to assume NO car went past my house."

2. Amoebal Immunity: Your 4th sentence seems to contradict your first sentence. Also, how does the unidentified article extract support your point?

3. Human cancer cells: What relevance is the name you choose to give to a human cancer cell? If we call a human cancer cell a "banana", will it become edibile? Also, what is the relevance of HPV causing cancer, to the overall debate. (Viruses aren't prokaryotes.)

4. Natural Selection: You have quoted part of the 7th last para of a lengthy article written in 2004 titled "Gene switching in Amoeba proteus caused by endosymbiotic bacteria". Yes, the new life form wasn't a superbug ready to ravage the planet. The xD amoebae only out-populated its relatives when maintained in the same laboratory conditions within which it evolved.

5. Super improved organisms: Why should they be? See 4 above.

6. Unclear evolutionary history: See the car colour analogy in 1 above.

7. Why did chloroplasts not find their way into the animal and human genome? I don't know but my guess would be that the first animals lived in the sea where there would not have been any use for chloroplasts, and by the time they walked on land, it was easier for them to eat vegetation and other animals? Maybe photosynthesis doesn't provide enough energy for an animal to walk around. Lack of chloroplasts in animals seems more of an argument FOR evolution, then against it, to me.

8. "Again, the fossil record is full of gaps and do not support symbiogenesis as the principal mechanism of developing life forms." Yet the section you quote (wherever it is from) seems to suggest the opposite.

9. Unnatural Gene Manipulation by Researchers: your supposed point seems to contradict the quote supporting your point 5.

80

Islam is a religion of peace (2)

by Coded Logic in

in behalf of the horrific events of saturday night, i just wanted to take a moment to remind everyone that islam is a religion of peace.

it doesn’t matter that the quran explicitly says that homosexuals should be stoned to death (7:84) - it’s still a religion of peace.

and it doesn’t matter that the scriptures say that all gay men should be killed (sunan 1:152) - islam doesn’t in anyway condone violence.. it doesn’t matter that every mainstream imam calls homosexuality a sin "worse the adultery" - it’s not a religion of bigotry.. it doesn’t matter that 61% of muslims in the uk think gay acts should be made illegal - islam has nothing against the gay community.. it doesn’t matter that countries with sharia law actively persecute the lgbt community - islam is all about peace and love.

shepherdless

I agree that there is a serious problem in relation to the rhetoric accompanying Islam.

However, personally, I think the issue in the USA is more about the lunacy of allowing the average citizen to own an assault rifle. An AR-15 assault rifle is not a practical weapon for home defence or for hunting. It is designed for killing a lot of people, quickly, and seems to be the weapon of choice used in a lot of mass murders, including this latest one.

Today, there are nutters justifying mass murder using the Koran. Tomorrow, it might be something completely different. In the past, various anarchist groups and others would have tried the same thing if the could have. If assault rifles were restricted, it would not stop such incidents, but it would make them harder to carry out, and with lower death tolls.

4

The Jehovah’s Witnesses is considering a sale of the majority of its UK property portfolio.

by JHK in

every thing goes to heaven... what about money?.

http://www.egi.co.uk/news/jw-sale-to-watch-out-for/.

the properties are generally located in strong residential areas and interest is expected from residential developers and investors, retirement and care home providers, and hotel companies.. ibsa was not prepared to put a value on the portfolio but its most recent accounts for the year ended 31 august 2014 reported total fixed assets of £73m.

shepherdless

This looks genuine. For those who do not want to click on the link, the heading, and first sentence of the article are slightly misleading; the article is only referring to properties in and around Mill Hill, not the whole "UK property portfolio".

It makes sense that they would sell these properties eventually, once Temple Farm is built. However, I remember on another thread (about a week ago?) that the revised details for the Temple Farm complex have only been decided very recently.

Watchtower must be in a rush. Perhaps the UK branch needs some of the proceeds to fund the work at Temple Farm, or perhaps Watchtower generally is just selling anything it can, these days.

63

Just found out their about to baptise my 14 year old boy.

by Crazyguy in

there doing this right under my nose but i just found out.

not sure what to do but would like your help on getting me wt information on my headship role and how they shouldn't be doing this with out my permission.

also would like some help on showing my son the ramifications on what happens to someone when they get baptized and how they'll expect him to treat me.

shepherdless

Excellent!

40

What Religious Trajectory Are The JWs Following?

by millie210 in

i was reading another thread and the comments got me thinking.... https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5656910430732288/pictures-tell-thousand-words.

comments such as oldskools: more like digital colonialism channeled through one of the weaker and less important institutions western society has to offer.. .

some have compared the orgs future path to the world wide church of gods.

shepherdless

Thanks Millie,

My first post was a bit blunt, in retrospect. It was not intentional.

Yes I believe the official name for the Christian Scientists is "First Church of Christ, Scientist", or "Church of Christ, Scientist". Such an ironic name. I can't think of a christian religion with dogmas so contradictory to science and so easily provable as scientifically incorrect.

Just to expand on what I said before:

For a whole raft of reasons (some already mentioned by others), Watchtower can't or won't become more moderate or mainstream.

Watchtower's publishing business has gone from a key revenue earner to a liability, and so (unlike eg Seventh Day Adventists and Exclusive Bretheren) it has no other business to fall back on.

The Watchtower business has a very high number of (low paid) employees, and consequential costs for a religion of its size. (This may be an issue worthy of its own thread.)

Watchtower is trying to be a media company, which is what nearly sent Christian Science broke in the 1980's.

I gather that the biggest problem for Christian Science at the moment is that the adherents are old and dying off. The 2014 Pew report shows that median ages of JWs in USA are well above the general population and have increased to a point that would suggest the same may start happening to the JW's.

Hence I think the better guide for the future of JWism, is Christian Science, not the Roman Catholic church.

I also agree with David Jay's analysis, by the way.

3

This man knows more about sanctity of life than the entire governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses

by CookieMonster in

sikh man uses turban to save dog from drowning in canal.

when sarwan singh a devout sikh saw a dog drowning in a canal he decided to act immediately to save the dogs life.

he took off his turban which is a sacred symbol of his religion.

shepherdless

A religious man who has a good sense of perspective and puts common sense before religious doctrine.

Sorry to sound preachy, but Jesus taught the same thing:

Luke 14:1 - 6:

On another occasion he [Jesus] went to eat a meal in the house of one of the leaders of the Pharisees on the Sabbath, and they were closely watching him. (2) And look! a man who had dropsy was in front of him. (3) So in response Jesus asked those versed in the Law and the Pharisees: “Is it lawful to cure on the Sabbath or not?” (4) But they kept silent. With that he took hold of the man, healed him, and sent him away. (5) Then he said to them: “Who of you, if his son or bull falls into a well, will not immediately pull him out on the Sabbath day?” (6) And they were not able to reply to this.

Someone else has compared that passage before, to the JW blood doctrine. Bear in mind that (from memory) the punishment for working on the Sabbath was death, whereas for consuming blood the punishment was you had to keep away, for a day.

Edit: consuming blood meant you had to was and bathe and you were unclean for a day: Leviticus 17:15

40

What Religious Trajectory Are The JWs Following?

by millie210 in

i was reading another thread and the comments got me thinking.... https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5656910430732288/pictures-tell-thousand-words.

comments such as oldskools: more like digital colonialism channeled through one of the weaker and less important institutions western society has to offer.. .

some have compared the orgs future path to the world wide church of gods.

shepherdless

millie210 - For me, I am seeing the Org looking more and more like a little baby Catholic Church.

No, I just can't see it that way. I tend to agree with David Jay. Perhaps the Roman Catholic church 100 years ago was more JW like in that it was stricter, more rule bound and more controlling, but comparing the 2 religions as they behave today is ridiculous.

Whilst there are many valid criticisms of the Roman Catholic church, they do allow an internal divergence of views on all sorts of issues, including theological issues, and tolerate upward feedback from it adherents. On the other hand, Watchtower tolerates no dissent (or even doubt) whatsoever. The views of the"rank and file" are plain not welcome. Also, contrary to the trash you might read in Washtowel, the pope does not have absolute authority, in the way the GB has.

I think the real question is whether Watchtower will become a more moderate religion. I think if history is any recent guide, the answer is no. If anything, they are getting worse, with their "bunker" and "shunning" videos.

Watchtower could have also secured its future with a bit of pragmatism. For example Seventh Day Adventists and the Exclusive Bretheren (both arguably nuttier religions than JWism) are doing okay because they have started and maintained profitable business.

I can't see Watchtower making a WCG type apology. That was an almost unique event in the history of religion.

I think that the most likely future for Watchtower is a parallel of Church of Christ, Scientist. By that I mean that the membership will start to decline as they get old and die off. There are already some stats showing the average JW age is increasing. Also, I note that when Church of Christ, Scientist had financial problems in the 1980's, the rate of membership decline increased. Hopefully there will be a parallel there, as well.

12

A philosophical question

by Coded Logic in

on the internet i keep bumping into people who are extremely insistent that our universe could be a simulation.

while i think it may, in the future, be possible to simulate a high fidelity universe - i don’t think we should confuse the ability to model a universe with the ability to actually build a universe.. .

for example, we can model weather patterns inside a computer.

shepherdless

I have not read such a thing. My thoughts are:

If the universe was a "simulation", then how can an individual in the universe say, "I think, therefore I am"? Put another way, if a simulated universe is able to have individuals who actually can say, "I think, therefore I am", then how does that differ from a real universe?

I can get the concept of the universe being created by some intelligent being setting the 4 fundamental forces of physics and watching the whole universe unpack from nothing (and there are serious problems with that). But to go one step further and say the universe does not even exist beyond a simulation created by a mathematical model, well surely that would be an explanation looking for a question to explain.

Sounds like some people out there have been playing too many computer games.

147

Challenge to Creationists

by cofty in

in response to the 37 threads in my evolution is a fact series - see bottom of op for links - perry posted a link to an article "44 reasons why evolution isn't true".. i offered him a challenge on the thread and by pm.

predictably he is totally ignoring it, so i am offering the challenge to any evolution-denier who thinks they have evidence to support their position.. please present one specific piece of evidence for creationism.. my task will be to refute it with evidence within 24 hours.. then i will present one piece of evidence for evolution and your challenge will be the same.. all posts must be as succinct as reasonably possible.

entirely in your own words, without copy-paste, videos or links.. please post your interest to take part and we will set it up before the first actual post in the exchange.

shepherdless

cantleave: The Earth is not a closed system so the 2nd Law is irrelevant

Spot on.

Prologs: May be I did misunderstand... Any system dead or alive, will grow in such a way to decrease entropy, and it will do that by favouring the increasing of shedding of excess heat, like an elephant growing bigger ears to have more air flowing over the veins carrying the evaporation - cooled blood. This growth of the right area is a build - in mechanism in nature, dead or alive. It is in the nature of things. or?

The article is not well written, and is confusing. I doubt the scientist wrote it himself; I suspect some journalist dumbed it down. A living thing in a closed system will eventually die, because of second law of thermodynamics. The article suggests abiogenesis could arise in an "open" system because, as every first year chemistry student knows, the second law of thermodynamics would not apply. It is not about a dissipation of excess heat, per se.