Posts by shepherdless

63

Evolution is a Fact #27 - Monkeys, Typewriters, Shakespeare, 747s etc.

by cofty in

most creationist arguments can be summarised as "complexity, complexity, complexity - therefore god".

we have all heard the illustrations about the odds of (insert favourite example) evolving, being less than 10,000 monkeys typing macbeth by pure chance.

evolution is not like that.

shepherdless

I simpy explained how to have perfect selection in one generation, you had to pay the price of the elimination of the other 9,999 in that same generation (destroying your population) for the evolutionary scenario to work. Your example tried to have the benefit of perfect selection, without the price. There is a cost to selective replacement that must must be paid. In this case the cost in the real world would indeed be the lives of the other 9,999. I was simply showing that an evolutionists own "rosy example scenario" when adjusted for reality runs into trouble.

What? One mutant monkey wiped out the rest?

However, when compared with the evolutionists "human evolution" timescale (5 million years since common ancestor with chimps) a problem developes, since humans have a slow generation time. In fact with a 20 year generation time the standard model of "evolution" allows only 833 beneficial mutations to have accumulated.
5 million years divided by 20 = 250,000 generations
250,000 divided by 300 (standard model) = only 833 beneficial mutations. (most of which are a single nucleotide)
And actually the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of beneficial mutations are ELIMINATED early on by genetic drift. Most evolutionists are not generally aware of this.

Couldn't multiple beneficial mutations be occurring at the same time?

10

Yet another kingdom hall being sold off

by pepperheart in

hi acording to a property website called rightmove a kingdom hall in dawlish devon is being sold off.. another poster has told us that in liverpool two more kingdom halls are being sold off, so this has been a good week .

shepherdless

I love these KH sell-off stories.

As Stan points out, it takes years to save for a Kingdom Hall. Given the current restrictions on how much an individual congregation can hold, and given the continual siphoning off of moneys to unknown overseas destinations (as shown in "Britain" branch and the Australian branch published financial statements) I think there will be extremely few new Kindom Halls built, at least in Western countries, in the future.

Once they are sold, they are gone for good.

For a lot of religions, financial problems in the centre would have much impact on the branches. If all the Islamic universities in Mecca went broke, or the Church of England in U.K., or even the Vatican, most of their respective adherents would continue as before. Their places of worship are generally locally owned, and the clergy class is usually autonomous and locally supported. However, with Watchtower effectively owning the Kingdom Halls and controlling literature and broadcasting, I wonder how the average JW would cope, if the Borg went under.

In the short term, selling less essential KH's may make financial sense, but long term, I think by sellling off Kingdom Halls and taking the money, Watchtower is unwittingly slowly eradicating itself, in a way that is hard to reverse.

19

Russian BOE - congregations told to stop using the New World Translation

by OrphanCrow in

it appears like the wt's bible is no longer to be used in russia.

king james version only.

from this forum: .

shepherdless

Yes, I think you are right, Anders. Darn.

19

Russian BOE - congregations told to stop using the New World Translation

by OrphanCrow in

it appears like the wt's bible is no longer to be used in russia.

king james version only.

from this forum: .

shepherdless

Excellent! JW's in Russia are going to see a genuine translation of the Greek Scriptures. Perhaps that will cause a few to ask questions about the differences and do a little research, outside of the Watchtower propaganda machine.

According to Wikipedia, the Old Testament ("Hebrew Scriptures") part of the Synodal Bible is translated from the Masoretic Text. That is a bit of a surprise and a shame, because I thought orthodox Christians tended to follow the Septuagint, which could have further undermined Watchtower theology in the eyes of a very academic JW.

17

Proposed Apostate takeover campaign

by zound in

jw
friends

fictional apostate takeover campaign.

stage #1.. what if in a town that had a particularly large amount of apostates and ex-jw's, over a period of a few months, they started going to a small congregation.

either pretending they were bible studies or just returning jw's, they got good standing in the congregation, priveleges etc.

shepherdless

A three year old thread brought back to life by a troll.

Interesting idea from the OP, but my my suggested "Stage 2" would be just to sell the hall, distribute the money to the congregation and move on.

48

Aren't you a bit amazed that the WTS/JWS is still around ?

by Finkelstein in

i know i am, to me its a bit of a peculiar anomaly that the wts is still around and functioning in reflection of its decades and now complete century that the wts has been bullshitting to people .

organizations like the church of god have shrunk dramatically from its heyday of the 1980's, this too was another organization that spread and grew by publishing its own magazine proclaiming a armageddon soon doctrine and its main publication was called " the truth " .

i'm guessing some of this has to do with the fact that people who get lured into this cult aren't aware of its past, its doctrines, the people who started it and so forth.

shepherdless

To some extent, I am surprised Christianity in general, is still around. If humans were purely logical, there would have been a dramatic fall-off in belief, once the theory of evolution was widely known, and the discovery of DNA should have been the death-knell.

I think what happens is that the majority of people do not change their religious beliefs over their lifetime, and only a percentage of the next generation do. On another thread, SBF referred me to a book, where the author argued that the this generational drop-out percentage in the U.K. was about 50% since WW2.

Why have many of the more fundamentalist Christians (eg JWs) held on better than the mainstream religions? Probably because their devotees are more sheltered from outside influences, reducing the generational drop-out percentage. Where I grew up, the mainstream Protestants have gone from being dominant to virtually disappearing. The Catholics have held on for a few more decades (but it is clear they are going the same way). I think the reason for the difference is that Catholics have their own schools to shelter their kids from outside ideas, and it slows the process.

Similarly, I think it is impossible to shelter even Borg kids from the outside world in this day and age, and I think Watchtower and other fundamentalist groups will suffer the same generational drop-out, from now on. It is a shame it is such a slow process, and too late for many we know.

205

Mathematically Measuring Evolution.

by towerwatchman in

mathematically measuring evolution.. when judging relationships in terms of morphological characteristics we will always be bound by the subjective.

morphologically one cannot exactly measure the distance between two organisms strictly in mathematical terms.

using the standard method of taxonomy we cannot quantify the difference between a horse and a mouse, or know which is closer mouse to cat, or mouse to fish.

shepherdless

Thanks Towerwatchman. Gave you a "thumbs up".

205

Mathematically Measuring Evolution.

by towerwatchman in

mathematically measuring evolution.. when judging relationships in terms of morphological characteristics we will always be bound by the subjective.

morphologically one cannot exactly measure the distance between two organisms strictly in mathematical terms.

using the standard method of taxonomy we cannot quantify the difference between a horse and a mouse, or know which is closer mouse to cat, or mouse to fish.

shepherdless

Towerwatchman:

Note nothing i have posted as evidence is supported by the Judeo Christian belief in a supernatural intelligent designer.

Shepherdless:

Most Christians do NOT believe in a "supernatural intelligent designer".

Towerwatchman:

That is a sweeping generalization. I can accept some, but not most.

Shepherdless:

Towerwatchman, you say you cant accept most Christians do not believe in a "supernatural intelligent designer"...

Towerwatchman:

Never said that...

37

GB asks every JW to give Putin their home address

by MrHappy in

jw's around the globe have been encouraged to write letters to putin and the russian government.

they are expected to give their personal details on the envelope.

i appreciate that this might be normal when writing to your own government if they are tolerant, but is this not a bit strange that the gb want to give putin the address of every jw in the world?

shepherdless

Russian Ministry set to reply to all 8,000,000 Jehovah's Witnesses around the world with information packets detailing the reasons for the actions taken. Information packets will include detailed material demonstrating that the Watchtower's "blood policy" is hypocritical and dangerous.

...and a small free sample of Polonium, perhaps.

Seriously, that would be a smart move by Putin, if true. It wouldn't fit well with the Watchtower narrative.

205

Mathematically Measuring Evolution.

by towerwatchman in

mathematically measuring evolution.. when judging relationships in terms of morphological characteristics we will always be bound by the subjective.

morphologically one cannot exactly measure the distance between two organisms strictly in mathematical terms.

using the standard method of taxonomy we cannot quantify the difference between a horse and a mouse, or know which is closer mouse to cat, or mouse to fish.

shepherdless

Towerwatchman, you say you cant accept most Christians do not believe in a "supernatural intelligent designer"

Just as an example: I was brought up in a strict Catholic family, and went entirely to Catholic schools, taught by a mix if priests, nuns and secular teachers (mostly practising Catholics). (I have never been a JW - I found myself married to one.) I can specifically remember the point being made at school many times that Genesis should not be read literally. I remember one Jesuit priest saying it was "childish" (exact word) to think it literally occurred.

From talking to people and a bit of research, I can not identify ANY mainstream Christian religion that rejects evolution. The only ones I can identify that do reject evolution, are the fundamentalist ones, mostly from the USA.

I do agree, however, that pre-Darwin or thereabouts, most Christians were creationists.

The majority of Christian I know and have known do not believe in evolution.

You were probably born in USA, or at least exposed to a fundamentalist US religion from a young age. You were almost certainly indoctrinated with the "creation story" right from when you were a little baby. Your entire terms of reference for how you view the world around you, stems from that indoctrination. You seek evidence to support your viewpoint (aka confirmation bias). You are good at debating, and seek further comfort by projecting your views on others and shouting them down if they disagree.

How close am I?