shepherdless

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Posts by shepherdless

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  25

  "Wondrous expansion is now taking place!"

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so we have all heard the worldwide reports about khalls being sold off and congregations being amalgamated etc.... of course, jws are being told that these actions are a sign of "just how much the work is progressing, and how jehovah is blessing the increase and expansion!".

  i can share the following from my part of the world too!.

  in perth, western australia the following has occurred.. three "new" congregations have been formed!

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  shepherdless

  Hi Stuckinarut,

  do you mean that, in effect, there will be a net zero increase in congregations, but one less Kingdom Hall?

  Do you know how much they hope to get for that KH? It looks well located. My guess would be close to A$ 3 million.
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  340

  Calling Cofty and others regarding evolution

  by dubstepped in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i have started down the path of trying to understand evolution, and to get the linear lies that the jws planted in my head out of it.

  i bought an audiobook called "evolution: what the fossils say and why it matters" by donald prothero.

  i heard it recommended on an atheist podcast that i listened to.

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  shepherdless

  @shepherdless: lol, you are applying an ENORMEOUS double standard!
  There are things the standard model does not explain like dark matter and other things that falls outside its scope. but within what it tries to explain it is pretty damn precise. tell me a single experiment that it has failed?
  evolutionary theory on the other hand have no explanation for a bunch of stuff, like the origin of thought.
  so if you want to say the standard model has not been proven beyond reasonable doubt bc it does not explain EVERYTHING (like dark matter), you got to apply the same principle to evolution.

  Well, I won’t get involved in your discussions with others.

  There is no double standard.

  The Standard Model should really explain dark matter. It is supposed to explain all particles. Also, it hasn’t really been verified by that many experiments, as they are expensive, time consuming, and dealing with cutting edge physics.
  

  The theory of evolution on the other hand, has been verified in countless ways, and there are no longer any mysteries of any significance.

  When I was at University, I remember a chemistry lecturer stating that DNA was always a right hand spiral, and nobody knew why. (I remember at the time that some creationists at the time were making an anti-evolution argument based on a misunderstanding of the second law of thermodynamics, yet on the right hand spiral issue, creationists would have had a legitimate point to raise, but none seemed aware of it.) That mystery has since been solved. I didn’t know it had been solved until I read one of Cofty’s threads.

  Since then, I don’t know of any legitimate argument against evolution. I don’t count appeals to emotion as legitimate arguments. There is plenty of info available about this topic.

  You raise the “origin of thought”. Well, you may have noticed that many more sophisticated animals can apply some very basic abstract thought. Your cat will go to the door, look at you and meow, to go outside. Crows have been shown to be able to count up to 5, etc.

  But why are we far smarter than any animal? The answer is simple. About 1.2 million years ago, a creature known as homo erectus started to learn how to make fire, and not long after, started to learn how to cook with fire. Brains use a lot of energy, and natural selection meant that an animal of any sort tended to have a brain just big enough to allow it to carry out necessary functions. If it had too big a brain, the animal would be at a disadvantage as it would require more food to survive. That changed with the use of fire. Cooked meat gives about 20% more energy (and is safer); many vegetables release more energy after being cooked. Food could be stored. Suddenly, a creature such as homo erectus had a massive advantage if it had a bigger brain, and had abstract thinking ability. The species spread across a large part of the planet; it was the second most successful hominid (apart from ourselves) in colonising the planet. One branch of homo erectus got even better at abstract thinking, and was our ancestor.

  I hope that answers your question.
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  340

  Calling Cofty and others regarding evolution

  by dubstepped in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i have started down the path of trying to understand evolution, and to get the linear lies that the jws planted in my head out of it.

  i bought an audiobook called "evolution: what the fossils say and why it matters" by donald prothero.

  i heard it recommended on an atheist podcast that i listened to.

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  shepherdless

  ok. has any theory in your opinion been proven beyond reasonable doubt?

  Yes, I would consider theories such as the theory of evolution and the theory of gravity as proven beyond reasonable doubt. Other theories, such as:

  • the standard model of particle physics (already discussed),
  • inflation theory (which correctly predicted the astronomical observation that the universe is extremely flat and explains why it has not collapsed on itself),
  • numerous other theories in fields as diverse as economics and psychology,

  have not been proven "beyond reasonable doubt". Science does not give a different name to theories that have or have not, been proven beyond doubt. Once a hypothesis survives a few different types of experiments and observations, it gets called a "theory" and never earns an upgraded term.

  by your standard evolution certainly hasn't as there are still a lot of stuff evolution does not explain well atm...

  Take this analogy. I have a theory that the road going past my house can be used by cars. I observe that it is flat and smooth with no steep parts, and connects all the way to and from the freeway. Furthermore, I have seen cars drive past my house. I have no idea what was the colour of the first car ever to drive past my house. In fact, I do not know the colour of the first car to drive past this morning. I may never find out. But I think my theory is proven beyond reasonable doubt, especially after seeing cars go past my house, even though I am unable to provide these colours.

  Furthermore, my theory does not explain who built the road. But I have a different theory about that.

  I have another theory that trucks might be able to drive past my house as well. I have never seen a truck drive past my house, but it looks to me like a truck should be able to. Perhaps if a truck came past my house, it might sink. I doubt it, but I cant prove it won't. This is an example of a theory not proven beyond reasonable doubt.

  no theory can explain everything, so no theory is proven beyond reasonable doubt, so we are back to relativism???

  Well, I disagree with the first part (for reasons given above), and I am not sure what you mean by the second. I avoid words like "relativism" because they mean different things to different people and end up in tangled SBF type arguments where nobody is sure what the argument is, or even can agree what particular words mean.
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  340

  Calling Cofty and others regarding evolution

  by dubstepped in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i have started down the path of trying to understand evolution, and to get the linear lies that the jws planted in my head out of it.

  i bought an audiobook called "evolution: what the fossils say and why it matters" by donald prothero.

  i heard it recommended on an atheist podcast that i listened to.

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  shepherdless

  I agree entirely, Outahere. I could add more, but I don't want to derail the thread.
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  340

  Calling Cofty and others regarding evolution

  by dubstepped in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i have started down the path of trying to understand evolution, and to get the linear lies that the jws planted in my head out of it.

  i bought an audiobook called "evolution: what the fossils say and why it matters" by donald prothero.

  i heard it recommended on an atheist podcast that i listened to.

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  shepherdless

  responding to a question above:

  are you saying the standard model is not tested beyond reasonable doubt, or are you saying it does not matter in physics if there is reasonable doubt about.a theory???

  The standard model of particle physics has not been proven "beyond reasonable doubt". In fact, its inability to explain, for example, "dark matter" is a puzzle, not yet solved. It does matter in physics if there is a reasonable doubt about a theory. The thing about physics, (and the scientific method of discovery in general), is that you never assume to know anything with absolute 100% certainty. Dogma is not allowed.

  neither of these things makes much sense to me
  True or false: the standard model has been tested beyond reasonable doubt?

  To repeat myself, the standard model has not been tested beyond reasonable doubt. The existence of the Higgs bosun has been proved to a level that I think any sensible person would consider beyond reasonable doubt. However, that does not necessarily prove the underlying theory that predicted its discovery. Can you see the difference?

  On the other hand, the theory of evolution has i.m.o. been overwhelmingly proved, with overwhelming amounts of evidence from separate and unrelated fields of science.

  Sorry to sidetrack the thread, by the way.
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  340

  Calling Cofty and others regarding evolution

  by dubstepped in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i have started down the path of trying to understand evolution, and to get the linear lies that the jws planted in my head out of it.

  i bought an audiobook called "evolution: what the fossils say and why it matters" by donald prothero.

  i heard it recommended on an atheist podcast that i listened to.

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  shepherdless

  Hothbanero, glad to hear you are not necessarily a "christian". That indicates you are open minded on the issues.

  Yes hothbanero, a theory, known as the Standard Model of particle physics, derived around 50 years ago, predicted the discovery of quarks, the tau neutrino, and more recently the Higgs bosun. It is hard to overstate how important this is, in relation to our understanding of the universe. However, it was not the theory that had to be tested to a "beyond reasonable doubt" in each case. It was the results of the experiment. That is a very important distinction. In the case of the Higgs bosun, they had to get enough data to show that its detection couldn't be due to random chance, to (I am going from memory here) a 5 sigma standard deviation level, which is a small probability, well less that 1 in a million. (I could explain more precisely and in more detail, but I might get called a nerd again.)

  The point is, it was not the theory being tested to beyond 1 in a million probability, it was the experiment.

  Bringing that back to evolution, it is reasonable to ask whether some of the tests, experiments and data have been determined to a beyond doubt stage. Eg are we certain that DNA exists? How do we know carbon dating works? Are the fossils accurate reconstructions? Do jellyfish really have primitive eyes? etc. But that is not the same as proving an entire theory (the underlying explanation that appears to tie everything together) and every aspect of it, beyond doubt.
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  73

  Tony "Tightpants" Morris Talks Of Tight Pants AGAIN!!

  by pale.emperor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  again with the pants... tony, if you can't stop looking at young men in tight pants don't take it out on the rest of us.

  https://www.facebook.com/john.cedars.5/posts/868329653345317.

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  shepherdless

  Someone on reddit, who was present at the talk given by Tight Pants Tony the Turd, gave a summary. Here is a link:

  https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/7q9tb1/details_of_tight_pants_tonys_talk_on_his_visit_to/

  It sounds like he spent a lot of time talking about his tight pants obsession. But he also reportedly said another little gem:

  He then even mentioned us apostates for a minute! He said he hates when apostates refer to the borg as a cult. Why? According to him, no one here was forcibly dragged into the hall and tied to chains to listen. 'Thats a cult' in his words.

  So he clearly aware of what sites such as this are saying about the borg. Good. I hope he does a world tour, telling the rank and file, noooo, we are not a cult.
  
  
  
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  340

  Calling Cofty and others regarding evolution

  by dubstepped in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i have started down the path of trying to understand evolution, and to get the linear lies that the jws planted in my head out of it.

  i bought an audiobook called "evolution: what the fossils say and why it matters" by donald prothero.

  i heard it recommended on an atheist podcast that i listened to.

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  shepherdless

  I note that in hothabanero's second last post, he now wants all aspects of evolution to be proven "beyond all reasonable doubt". I wonder if he can prove the talking snake story "beyond all reasonable doubt"? That would be the fair comparison.
  
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  340

  Calling Cofty and others regarding evolution

  by dubstepped in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i have started down the path of trying to understand evolution, and to get the linear lies that the jws planted in my head out of it.

  i bought an audiobook called "evolution: what the fossils say and why it matters" by donald prothero.

  i heard it recommended on an atheist podcast that i listened to.

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  shepherdless

  Well done dubstepped. When a critic accused him of being inconsistent, John Maynard Keynes reportedly said:

  When my information changes, I alter my conclusions. What do you do, sir?

  So many people seem incapable of doing that. It is an important life skill.
• 
  49

  My 71st Birthday Confessional

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was born january 15, 1947in mt.

  carmel hospital, detroit, michigan.. within six months of my birth, my mother would bundle her baby boy into a blanket and board an american airlines propeller-driven plane--in effect, leaving my father behind--to return to her hometown, ft. worth, texas.. my dad had an excellent job working for cadillac as an inspector.

  it was a union job.

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  shepherdless

  All the best for your birthday, Terry.