shepherdless

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Posts by shepherdless

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  226

  Wealth, Poverty, and Morality

  by SecondRateMind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.

  apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.

  luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.

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  shepherdless

  Hi 2RM, no it is essentially the same thing, except the communists had a practical approach to achieve the same ideal.

  Firstly, the communists may have focused on the means of production, whereas you seem to focus on money. The communists correctly understood that money of itself has no intrinsic value, is both created and destroyed in various activities. Your ideal suggests that you are one of those who think all the money on the planet is a finite set amount (as if it was found under a bush somewhere by cavemen, and in circulation ever since). It is the means of production that represents real wealth. And some people are far better at using it to generate wealth than others. For example, farmland can produce great wealth, if managed well, and none, if managed poorly.

  Secondly, the communists had the commune (or State, in the case of Russia, China, etc) own the assets rather than split them up evenly, amongst the people, on the theoretical understanding that the state or commune held it all on behalf of the people. This is a practical approach, given the above.

  The problem is that the great equalisation (whether money or means of production) leads to a massive loss of production, where it is put into hands of people who either don’t know how to use it, or don’t care, or both. To take the farmland example, I remember a statistic from the late 1980s that USSR had 150 million farmers, yet was the world’s biggest importer of agricultural produce, yet the USA (with 50 million farmers) was the world’s biggest exporter of agricultural produce.

  Likewise if you take all the money from the wealthy people in the world, you will deprive them of the ability to generate things that people need. If you give it to the poorest, they will not use it, or even know how to use it, to generate things that people need. Mass starvation is the likely result. You may consider communism to be different from the approach that you describe, but communism is just a practical approach to carry out your idea.

  I think you mean well, and your heart is in the right place, by the way.
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  226

  Wealth, Poverty, and Morality

  by SecondRateMind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am interested in the approach this forum takes to money.

  apart from sex, (which i am quite relaxed about) it seems to me that wealth is the surest divider between those who are moral, and those who are not.. it seems jesus thought so, also.

  luke 16:19-31 kjv describes well enough his dusty attitude to the rich who do not succour the poor.. and this world has many poor: so many, it might seem that we can do nothing about it, and twist his words; 'the poor ye shall have always with you, but me, ye shall not have always.

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  shepherdless

  This experiment has all be tried, many times, on a small scale and on a large scale, in the past. For example, they tried it in Russia after WW1, resulting in 20 million people starved to death in the 1920s. They tried it in China in the 1950s, and 50 million people starved to death.
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  13

  2017 WTBTS Financial Statement Ireland

  by Atlantis in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  2017 wtbts financial statement irelandhttps://we.tl/f55k8sawsmatlantis!.

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  shepherdless

  There’s no way JWs contribute £50 a month on average.

  I am glad to hear that. You are probably right. I better explain.

  I made that calculation using the financial figures for Britain about 18 months ago, and I mentioned it on a thread here, at the time. (Nobody challenged it.) I had a suspicion at the time that it wasn’t reflective of the rate at which individuals publishers were donating. It was an artificial rate; the total amount the Britan branch was extracting from the congregations or receiving directly, divided by the number of publishers, at the time. The great cash grab was probably still in its last stages, and the sale of Kingdom Halls would have lifted that figure, as well.

  Maybe the same thing applies to the Ireland accounts. That €300 p.a. per publisher could be just reflective of the rate at which congregations are handing over money, not what individual publishers are donating.

  Of course, you would expect the 2 rates to be the same or even out, over time. Except, of course, if the Borg is scrambling for cash.
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  13

  2017 WTBTS Financial Statement Ireland

  by Atlantis in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  2017 wtbts financial statement irelandhttps://we.tl/f55k8sawsmatlantis!.

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  shepherdless

  Hi sbf, almost all of the assets are tied up in freehold land. I know nothing about the situation in Ireland, but I wonder whether that branch building in Ireland is worth around €3 million, representing all of the freehold land in he accounts, and all Kingdom Halls are held in separate trusts or legal entities.

  €300 per publisher per annum might seem a lot but I remember calculating the similar rate for publishers in the geographical area that Watchtower terms “Britain”, and it was much higher; of the order of £50 per publisher per month.
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  13

  2017 WTBTS Financial Statement Ireland

  by Atlantis in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  2017 wtbts financial statement irelandhttps://we.tl/f55k8sawsmatlantis!.

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  shepherdless

  Hi OrphanCrow, there is nothing to indicate that. These accounts are similar to the Britain accounts in that a large amount of money described as destined for Africa etc, gets routed through the German branch (Jehovas Zeugen).

  It would be fascinating to see the financial statements of Jehovas Zeugen. It seems to play a key role in the international finances of the Borg.
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  13

  2017 WTBTS Financial Statement Ireland

  by Atlantis in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  2017 wtbts financial statement irelandhttps://we.tl/f55k8sawsmatlantis!.

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  shepherdless

  Looks like the accounts for Ireland would be quite healthy, if they weren't sending all that money to the branch in Germany.

  I notice that donations are on the decrease, praise Jah.
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  13

  A.N.Z.A.C. Day 25th APRIL

  by zeb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the 25th april is the day australia and new zealand remember their war dead.. on the 25th april 1915 troops from many nations including australian and new zealanders landed on the shores of turkey.

  the anzac forces at a place called gallipoli or galliboli by the turkish people.. the concept was to land move inland attack constantinople and there by force turkey out of the war (1914-1918) and bring it too a swift end.

  the whole operation was a monumental stuff up with the anzacs being landed in the wrong place up against steep cliffs.

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  shepherdless

  My ancestors were all Roman Catholic, and in Australia, Roman Catholics were heavily discouraged from enlisting, during WW1. The Catholic Church also successfully campaigned to block conscription at the time. The following wikipedia article gives a bit of the history:

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_conscription_in_Australia

  Amongst my ancestors, and their near relatives, only one man enlisted to fight in WW1. He fought in France for a good portion of the war. His record shows he was injured twice, and he was in trouble for insubordination at one stage. He survived but needed a walking stick for the rest of his life. He died in his 90's. He never talked about it.
  

  One of the stories I heard was that when he returned from WW1, he would never attend church on Sunday mornings. He would sit outside during the whole service, reading newspapers, while his family was inside. That went on for years, before a very dominant wife managed to get him back into attending.

  The anti-war attitude in my family pervaded into WW2. Again only one of them enlisted and, I gather from how it was described to me as a kid, that he was very much frowned upon by his relatives for doing so. He never returned. I gather that my ancestors never bothered to find out the details, but I looked them up from military records. It appears that he died with the rank of Corporal during the Battle of Alemain, on a day when the Australians lost a lot of lives (around 80 from memory) capturing an important German position.

  I presume that this relative is buried in a war grave in Egypt. I am sure that none of his relatives or their descendants have ever visited, or even knew anything about the sacrifice he made.
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  35

  JW Cartoons

  by FinalFlame in

  1. social
  2. family

  i've recently watched the jw cartoons centered around teaching young kids the doctrines of this faith.

  while i no longer practice any faith, i am well versed in this one.

  i must say, these cartoons are in bad, bad taste.

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  shepherdless

  The Sophie and Caleb cartoons seem to be an epic fail, anyway. My kids never seemed interested in them. I imagine that they look useful, to adults that have never had kids (which includes most of the GB) but for kids to be interested in watching cartoons, they have to be entertaining, or funny. My kids love the Simpsons, even though I am not sure they get all the humor. Those Sophie and Caleb cartoons are about as funny as a funeral.

  There aren't many JW kids left in the Borg to watch the Sophie and Caleb cartoons these days, anyway. It is all too little, too late, imo.

  I did once unexpectedly come across one of my kids watching the infamous anti-gay metal detector cartoon, when it came out. It caught me by surprise, and I didn't have time to think of something more effective to say, but I said something like, "Don't tell anyone at school what is in that cartoon. If you do, they will think you are a bad person." It seemed to have the desired effect. My kid turned off the video straight away, and went and did something else.
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  21

  Why NO bibles??

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know we have all said it before, but it simply blows my mind that the jws doing cart work do not have bibles on the cart to give out to interested ones!.

  how can they say they are "bible students" trying to share the "bibles message" and not give out bibles!?.

  other christian groups take the commission to share the bible seriously!

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  shepherdless

  I remember a couple of years ago hearing a pioneer talking excitedly about his day standing next to his trolly/cart. Apparently a member of the public had come along had come along and said I really need a bible; I have been looking to buy one etc. The pioneer gave him a new "silver sword" and this member of the public absolutely promised to come to the next meeting etc.

  The pioneer's lengthy description of the experience made it all sound like some sort of divine intervention where an individual in need of a bible miraculously came across the cart, at just the right time, etc. I stayed silent, thinking "All that has happened is that someone scammed a bible off you, dimwit."

  I never heard whether the member of the public ever turned up for the next meeting. I suspect not, because I would have heard about it for hours, if it did happen.
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  17

  Suffern tenants must move after Jehovah's Witnesses group buys building

  by TJ Curioso in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  suffern tenants must move after jehovah's witnesses group buys building .

  suffern the nonprofit organization behind the jehovahs witnesses has purchased an apartment complex in the village with plans to use it as temporary housing for members while they work to build a massive new headquarters in nearby warwick, orange county.. the sale of the 48-unit suffern commons at 10-12 chestnut st. closed last week, a spokesman for the watchtower society told the journal news.. the deal forces families in the three-story building to quickly find alternative housing and could mean a loss to the village of $56,000 in annual property taxes if the new owner secures a religious tax exemption which it is interested in, spokesman richard devine said.. before the sale was confirmed, tenants spent the past few weeks anxiously trying to figure out why some of them received notices to vacate by june 30. others who had signed one-year leases or didnt know when their leases were up, like terri fosina-friedman, also have prepared to move.. but the painful process and lack of information from their landlord and the new owner has angered many residents, fosina-friedman said.. im just happy that i got it settled and i got another place to live and my son can stay in the school district, she said.. the watchtower society, the brooklyn-based organization that establishes doctrine for millions of jehovahs witnesses around the world, intends to honor tenants existing leases at suffern commons, devine said.

  he indicated that the society would consider an extension of the june 30 move-out deadline.. were going to work with the tenants, he said.

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  shepherdless

  I think it is newsworthy. Maybe not important, but newsworthy.

  Or perhaps I find any post relating to Borg financial and real estate matters interesting.