well, it has happened.. workers in these industries will be forced to vax or lose their employment.. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-01/victoria-which-authorised-workers-mandatory-vaccination-onsite/100506980.
i'm glad to be out of the workforce.. never thought it would come to this in a supposed democratic society.. no wonder protests and law suits are increasing in intensity.
like for fucks sake,,, a worker at a takeaway bottle / liquor shop.
well, it has happened.. workers in these industries will be forced to vax or lose their employment.. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-01/victoria-which-authorised-workers-mandatory-vaccination-onsite/100506980.
i'm glad to be out of the workforce.. never thought it would come to this in a supposed democratic society.. no wonder protests and law suits are increasing in intensity.
like for fucks sake,,, a worker at a takeaway bottle / liquor shop.
Perhaps someone should give a more neutral summary of events in Australia.
Background
Since the start of the pandemic, the Aust Govt and the governments of each Australian state (6 states) and 2 territories got together and agreed a policy of “containment” of the virus, although in practice, they were adopting a policy of elimination. Each state and territory has its own health department to fund, and (with the exception of NSW) tended to lock down everything, every time a small outbreak occurred, even if only for a few days, to test and contact trace each outbreak out of existence. The Aust Govt didn’t like that approach, as it is the one that has to fund unemployment benefits, social security, etc, and generally is in charge of the overall economy. But overall, the governments achieved a high level of cooperation, despite 4 being centre-right, and 5 being centre-left.
During the course of last year, Melbourne (capital of Vic), went through a very extended lockdown to contain an outbreak that peaked at over 700 cases. That was a big drain on the people of Melbourne and the rest of VIC.
A few months ago, an airport chauffeur in Sydney caught the Delta variant from an overseas passenger. NSW was slow to lockdown, and the Delta variant is so contagious that it proved too difficult to contain, even with a hard lockdown. After trying hard, NSW decided the only hope of containing the Delta variant was with a very high level of vaccination. Meanwhile, the virus spread to VIC.
some mathematics
To control a virus via vaccination, you need to get vaccination levels to a “herd immunity” level. The level needed is given by the following formula:
V = (1 - 1/R)/E
where V = the vaccination rate you need to achieve
R is the basic reproduction number (normally written with a small subscript zero after the R)
E = the vaccine effective rate.
Each of the major vaccines claim over 95% effective rate, so let’s assume E=0.95. R=5.7 for the Delta variant according to Aust scientists (although I note that USA CDC assumes a higher figure). Therefore, V = 0.87.
In other words, to have this Delta variant decline and disappear, you need a min 87% vaccination rate. Alternatively, a lower rate, plus some movement restrictions.
NSW and VIC vaccination rates
After a slow start, NSW and Vic have been vaccinating their populations as fast as they can. Unfortunately, there has been a lack of vaccines, mainly because the primary vaccine was supposed to be Astra Zeneca which turned out to be a blood clot risk.
NSW has now achieved over 88% vaccination, and cases are less than half what they were a couple of weeks ago. 623 cases and 6 deaths today.
VIC started later, but is catching up, and is now at 82%. Cases appear to have peaked in the last couple of days, after a big jump following a couple of weekends of loud unlawful protests. 1,377 cases and 4 deaths, today. Hopefully, the downward trend continues.
Protest and Violence
Victoria has had it very tough, given it is in a second long-running hard lockdown. Construction workers were allowed to continue work, provided they complied with certain restrictions, eg keep distances apart, while eating lunch. Unfortunately, the Trade Union that controls construction workers is very militant, and those people generally don’t like being told what to do. After persistent widespread breaches, and a disproportionate number of cases among construction workers, plus a rowdy protest, the VIC govt shut down the construction industry, which led to more protests. The VIC police took a hard line, and protests seem to have stopped for the moment.
Clearly, people in VIC are sick of lockdowns.
Tucker Carlson nonsense
Just a quick reference to the Fox News clip above. It is always interesting to watch a foreign news source, to see how they cover events in Australia. Mostly they get it wrong, or leave out crucial info. Tucker Carson tries to paint a picture with selective bits of info, to push an agenda with his US audience. I could go into detail, but can’t be bothered.
However, no Aust military was used in any way in relation to the protests. Even ignoring legal and constitutional issues, the military is controlled by the (Centre-Right) Aust govt, which has a strained relationship with the VIC govt; the most left leaning in Aust. (Would Trump lend army personnel to help Gavin Newsome stop protests against the Democrats in Calif? That would be the equivalent to what Carlson claimed happened.)
At a much earlier stage, unarmed military personnel were used to distribute information to residents in NSW (not VIC), and had no power to arrest, etc. That appears to be the source of Carlson’s assertions.
I found it amusing that Carlson gives high praise to our centre-left pro-lockdown Western Australian government, but criticises our anti-lockdown centre-right Aust government. But to do otherwise would have undermined his narrative.
In conclusion, no, this is not a part of a grand conspiracy by governments in Australia to take over with authoritarian control of the entire population. They are just following the science. To keep COVID out, they need a high vaccination rate, and other strict measures in the meantime. Not all of the Aust population is on board, but the majority of people are, irrespective of political persuasion.
One final point: USA COVID deaths: 719,933. Australia COVID deaths: 1,346. What USA does is its business, but we are generally happy with what we have been able to prevent.
it just seems like the kingdom halls are for sale everywhere.
i think this is the fourth or fifth i have seen just this week.. https://www.domain.com.au/64-charles-street-triabunna-tas-7190-2017131021?fbclid=iwar3w-1kwb_ef5op_o3wl92bhy6_9pdlib9lj78fb5cys3gdtdhtxp_5b7j4https://www.realcommercial.com.au/sold/property-46-leslie-st-stawell-vic-3380-503750618?fbclid=iwar0m9arji78p_wakgn_2p3bkbgqoiwzore-d2-oyqx7ahhtj98wxm0lhfk0https://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-bridgetown-136605110?fbclid=iwar3qqn-y5zcxigotrh_mwtx0vumn2jl600uqnv0cuubehqqk2bz5nscmdnqhttps://www.athertonfn.com.au/property?property_id=679163&fbclid=iwar1bfbbae0rnhsltadwrgp-7lhfjysznlhjkq3appsubdzsk7mklgikhejkwe will give kim credit for finding these.atlantis!
The Bridgetown sale in Western Australia is interesting. It is in a rural region, but not remote, with plenty of hobby farmers and lifestyle types. The 2 nearest Kingdom Halls for someone in Bridgetown will now be Manjimup (36km to the South) and Donnybrook (57km to the North). If you live in Boyup Brook (population 1700), then your nearest Kingdom Hall would now be 66km away.
that is the title of one of the watchtower's seemingly endless list of books that was pushed out for sale placement in the jehovah's witness' ministry.
the title does ask a great question.
those who would deny that the bible is divine in origin usually point to failed prophecy, events that do not mesh with historic evidence, scientific evidence, or even plagiarism from other religions.
Yes, it is a good point you make. One of many that could be made, on the topic.
woke up to this piece on abc news australia.. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-13/jehovah-witnesses-child-abuse-four-corners-investigations/100444320.
the shine lawyer group have a reputation for going in hard.. jtg..
Woke up to this piece on Abc news Australia.
The first thing my JW wife does in the morning is open the ABC News app. Guess what the top news story was today!!
She said something like, “Oh not another story about us. I am not going to read it.”
Sounds like there might be a 4 Corners episode coming up as well.
minimus former jw, prolific poster on jwn died.. minimus.
joined 19 years ago.
started 4,139 topics.
Very sorry to read this. May he rest in peace.
my fifty year-old daughter is studying to be a jehovah witness.
i am her catholics father.
just wondering because they are not allowed to associate with worldly people.
Gary, yes I am in the same situation, although you are a couple of decades ahead of me. We also have 4 kids, so there are 6 of us under the one roof. I intend to do a new post on how this is all playing out.
Just to add to what I posted above, there are lots of very good intellectual arguments that should in theory persuade a JW to leave. You can see lots of them at jwfacts.com
However, most JWs are immune to intellectual arguments, because (unbeknownst to themselves) they are there for emotional not intellectual reasons. Further, a non-JW trying to persuade a JW using scripture etc will inevitably fail, as the moment a non-JW does not use the exact correct word or theological terminology, their credibility is shot.
As long as you don’t actively discuss religion with your daughter, you are not a threat. In fact, you are a potential “Bible student”, yourself, in their eyes. And keeping in contact with your daughter is probably the best thing for her, as it would keep her grounded to reality. She may one day suddenly work it out for herself, or she may not.
i escaped the cult many years ago.
as a result, i have an eye for cultlike thinking, whether in terms of religion, politics, centrist thinking, etc.. last december my fiance and i had a baby.
she is black and i'm white.
So, taking it from an angle I'm familiar with, how did/do non-JW parents who have a JW spouse, make sure that their kids get exposure to more than just one form of "spiritual food," while keeping things peaceful?
I was never one to encourage any other form of “spiritual food”. I always encouraged logic and reason, and rational responses to events, instead of superstitious nonsense.
my fifty year-old daughter is studying to be a jehovah witness.
i am her catholics father.
just wondering because they are not allowed to associate with worldly people.
My advice to Gary would be that, given he has already provided his daughter with info, and the daughter is still studying, then there is not much else that can be done, apart from keeping in contact.
Why would a 50 yo lady start studying? Probably lonely, or in need of some company, or being manipulated. Such a person will not pay much attention to intellectual arguments.
I think Gary should just maintain contact, agree not to discuss religion, if need be, and hope his daughter works it out.
do you recall reading this passage before?
i came across this it yesterday while preparing a bible presentation on trees.
i had no idea this passage existed.
I had heard or read of that passage ages ago. I see from Earnest’s post above, that Rutherford (as usual) came up with a pile of pseudo-mystical nonsense, in interpreting it.
An interpretation in “Christendom” would likely be along the following lines. The first and most obvious point is to look at the context. Someone called Jotham gave a speech that included the tree allegory. It is clear in context that Jotham was not reporting an event; he was just being allegorical. Further, Jotham was speaking in order to persuade a crowd that Abimelech (who had just made himself king by force and murder) should not be accepted as king. The idea of brambles (a low-lying plant) offering shade is a joke, and brambles being a plant of no virtue, and also flammable (ie dangerous) is part of the allegory.
Thus, the explanation and interpretation of the passage is relatively simple and straightforward; ie don’t choose a morally corrupt person as your ruler. (Also, notice how the least worthy tree/plant is the one to demand to be the ruler, or else.)
