Posts by shepherdless

129

Hi forum

by A Believer in

i proably shouldnt be on here but i feel like saying this.

i have been for the last couple weeks been studying religion.

i've learned the only ones who today do what the bible says to is jw.

shepherdless

Sheperdless I believe when it says in the name it doesn't mean the holy spirit is a person. It's a form of speech. Some scriptures say in the name of the law...does this mean that the law is a person?

Well the NWT says (Matt 24:19):

"Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit"

No mention of "the law". Is the NWT translation wrong?

Also, you might have heard a phrase in this religion "sinning against the spirit", as being different from (and more serious than) sinning against Jehovah. What is your interpretation of that?

129

Hi forum

by A Believer in

i proably shouldnt be on here but i feel like saying this.

i have been for the last couple weeks been studying religion.

i've learned the only ones who today do what the bible says to is jw.

shepherdless

Welcome, A Believer,

I don't believe in the Trinity either, but for very different reasons. Out of interest, what is your interpretation of Matthew 28:19?

On a general note, I sense you are testing what you have learnt so far. This is good, and the bible says you should examine everything carefully (1 Thessalonians 5:21). In that regard, you might want to check www.jwfacts.com for some further information.

7

666 or 616? Do we have to choose a number or could it be both?

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

i'm sure that most longer term readers on this list know that the use of the number in the revelation was a 'code' using the jewish concept that assigned number values to the letters of the hebrew alphabet.. a promoter of modern judaism ( dr. eliyahu lizorkin-eyzeneberg) explains:.

today gematria is well-known as a jewish interpretive method that assigns numerical values of hebrew letters to words, phrases and/or sentences.

then, by adding them together, seeks to determine their deeper meaning.

shepherdless

This is pretty much what we learnt in a religious education class when I was in school, decades ago. ie, the "beast" was most probably Nero. I think (but I am not 100% sure) that this is the generally accepted view amongst Catholics and mainstream Protestants.

The purpose of the coding was probably just so that the casual reader of the book (or casual listener) in around 60 to 90 AD wouldn't pick up that the early Christians were saying such nasty things about their oppressors. It was what we would call "dog-whistling" in politics today.

There is more evidence that the "beast" of Revelations is Nero (or another Roman Emperor) because of a double meaning in the original Greek for "mark of the beast". It could also mean the currency/coinage of the beast. Someone else can probably explain that point better.

52

Memorial 2017

by wifibandit in

instead of making a new thread for every little thing related to memorial 2017, i'm going to try to post here.

.

and to start us off.... cart artwork for 2017 memorial invitations.

shepherdless

I know there are purists who say otherwise, but I always use the Oxford comma, because without it you can get some funny double meanings.

Take for example, the following hypothetical sentence without the Oxford comma:

"During the course of their investigations, Police interviewed Mr X Smith, a religious elder and a known pedophile."

It is not clear from that sentence whether the Police interviewed 3 people or 1 person. I can't understand why some purists (not all) insist on a grammatical rule that needlessly creates ambiguity.

35

What age were you when you were counted as a publisher?

by OrphanCrow in

the wts has always included minors and adults in the same categories - publisher and baptized.. i am interested in knowing how many minors, approximately, are included in the publisher count.

and, at what age a person started publishing.

what age was the youngest publisher reported?.

shepherdless

I have 4 kids, all minors, and all became "publishers" without my knowledge. The oldest 2 are not publishers any longer. I won't say ages.

I have no idea how they managed to count time. They used to go out in organised field service but current circumstances prevent that. I doubt if any of their classmates know; in fact the oldest one recently told me as much.

It is such a joke. It is obviously about generating favorable statistics. I wouldn't surprise me if the cat was a publisher as well.

30

Will Jehovah`s Witnesses join with other religions in Compensation Payouts ?

by smiddy in

justice mcclellen asked g.jackson about compensation for victims of child abuse , and mcclellan suggested it be by a consortium of groups , presumably religious and secular in nature as a pool to dispense approppiate compensation to all of the victims involved .. g.jackson hesitated and said they would have to look at the details of that proposal , before committing to it.. jehovah`s witnesses consider themselves as the only true religion and ,all others as false religion .. they take pains to separate themselves from from any association with other religions , not even being included in newspaper notices about church services.they want to keep themselves separate and distinct from false religion as they see them.. so how do you think they will handle this suggestion / requirement ?

will they join in aligning themselves with "babylon the great" in compensation .?.

didn`t they align themselves with another religion in the u.s.a. some years ago , that had to do with the w.t.

shepherdless

Hi Zeb, I don't agree (but I am not the one who gave you a down vote).

On another thread I stated I didn't think Watchtower could just abandon the Aust branch. The value of the Kingdom Halls total a lot more than all the likely payouts. (I won't set out the maths again.)

Further, the ARC can only make recommendations. It can't make laws or issue judgments in relation to any particular case. However, the Australian Govt is clearly active, and it seems there is bi-partisan support to act on any recommendations.

I think that by far the most likely result is that Watchtower very quietly joins the compensation scheme. It is the cheapest option available for them.

6

The Q Gospel

by schnell in

so, i'm reading "the lost gospel: the book of q and christian origins" on scribd.

check it out: https://www.scribd.com/book/163624254.

if you're not aware (i'm just learning about this), the q is a term for an early "sayings gospel" of yeshua, a document that recorded his sayings rather than his supposed life story.

shepherdless

I actually heard about the "Q source" in school religious education classes, many years ago. I presume, if it existed, it was something like the Gospel of Thomas.

We have so little reliable information on Jesus/Yeshua, that it is hard to do more than speculate. We can't even be certain Jesus existed, although he most likely did. If he did exist, I agree with the OP that he was most likely a typical "cult leader".

22

Can JWs really vote now , since when?

by Crazyguy in

is this true??

?.

shepherdless

steve2 - I am certain that, in countries or states where voting is compulsory (e.g., Australia), the organization advised Witnesses they could register to vote and go into voting booths, strike out all the names on the voting forms and place them in the ballot box.

Actually it is a criminal offence in Australia to encourage people to vote informally. I understand Watchtower instead advises its members to simply not turn up to vote. The Aust Electoral Commission sends letters to anyone who doesn't vote, with a small fine (A$20 or so). There are a number of grounds to avoid the fine, including religious grounds, and the AEC always accepts being a JDub as a legitimate excuse. Further, most born-in JDubs never apply to be on the electoral roll in the first place, so they don't even get the AEC letter.

Undercover - If a JW in the US was DFd for voting, would their be a civil rights violation? I know the Civil Rights Act of 65 was more about race and color, but to deny (through threat of punishment by shunning) a citizen the right to vote seems to be on a slippery legal slope...

That is a damn good point. Most of the Voting Rights Act of 1965 relates to what States may not do, and so doesn't apply. However, Section 11(b) reads in part:

No person, whether acting under color of law or otherwise, shall intimidate, threaten, or coerce, or attempt to intimidate, threaten, or coerce any person for voting or attempting to vote, or intimidate, threaten, or coerce, or attempt to intimidate, threaten, or coerce any person for urging or aiding any person to vote or attempt to vote...

I can't see how Watchtower is not in breach of that section.

Edit: I didn't see comments on this issue by Island Man and others, before posting.

30

Will Jehovah`s Witnesses join with other religions in Compensation Payouts ?

by smiddy in

justice mcclellen asked g.jackson about compensation for victims of child abuse , and mcclellan suggested it be by a consortium of groups , presumably religious and secular in nature as a pool to dispense approppiate compensation to all of the victims involved .. g.jackson hesitated and said they would have to look at the details of that proposal , before committing to it.. jehovah`s witnesses consider themselves as the only true religion and ,all others as false religion .. they take pains to separate themselves from from any association with other religions , not even being included in newspaper notices about church services.they want to keep themselves separate and distinct from false religion as they see them.. so how do you think they will handle this suggestion / requirement ?

will they join in aligning themselves with "babylon the great" in compensation .?.

didn`t they align themselves with another religion in the u.s.a. some years ago , that had to do with the w.t.

shepherdless

What's stopping the dopes in Brooklyn playing hardball, closing down every major asset and siphoning off the vast majority of its money in Australia to the mother ship?

They have 800 congregations in Aust. That probably equates to around 400 Kingdom Halls, mostly in urban areas. They are probably worth A$ 500k each, probably more, so A$ 200 million total, or more. Title to each would still be in the name of the Aust entity. There is probably a trust deed involved, for each KH, but that may not be effective in protecting them from creditors. (This is a complicated area, but Google "tracing remedy equity" or "constructive trust".)

It is one thing for your local small business to play hardball, close shop, burn the books and restart somewhere else. It is not really feasible for a multinational to do the same, unless they want to abandon Australia altogether, and even then, it is problematic.

31

More bad news for the Organisation in Australia

by no-zombie in

it appears the the commonwealth government is bringing in a national compensation scheme for victims of institutional child sexual abuse with individuals able to claim up to $150,000 each.

it's clear that the australian government will not be able to fund this program without serious money from the offending churches.

so it's bad news for the organization today.. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-04/government-announces-redress-for-abuse-victims/7996092.

shepherdless

The article goes on to point out that the Northen Territory,and the Australian Capital Territory along with South Australia have not/will not sign up to the scheme, and Western Australia`s position remains unclear.

I am pretty sure that this relates to the fact that many of the victims were in orphanages or other state care facilities. It won't impact JW victims. I suspect the 3 state and territories named don't want to be part of it because there were very few recorded cases there. WA probably can't commit due to the upcoming election.

from reading elsewhere, it appears that the govt will fund the scheme to the extent that an offending organisation has disappeared and has no successor. It also appears that $150,000 might be the maximum amount, rather than a set amount. $4 billion / 65,000 victims suggests $60,000 might be a more typical payout.

If there ar 1000 JW cases, that would suggest that Watchtower would have to contribute A$60 million, to be part of the scheme.

It seems to me, realistically, Watchtower has 3 options:

1. Contribute the $60 million, thereby closing off most of the future publicity. To do so, they would probably need some funding internationally.

2. Not join the scheme and litigate each case individually. This would probably be more expensive in the long run, and very damaging to the JW brand.

3. Try to avoid it using insolvency laws and protection. I don't think this is a realistic option, because the total value of the Kingom Halls in Australia would be well above A$60 million. Even if they can exclude the Kingdom Halls, they would be famous in Australia as the religion that went insolvent. Field service would be particularly miserable, there.

I think if they are half sensible, they will go with option 1.