Corney

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Posts by Corney

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  44

  JW detained in Putin's Russia ... accused of extremism

  by mikeflood in

  1. social
  2. current

  from bbc news "five jw's from the kirov region detained with about $ 7,500 accused of funding and organizing meetings....they found literature...and two hand granades and a landmine".

  the russians are such idiots planting evidence....and quarrelling with the neutral and sheepish jw land...and of course inflamating their persecution complex.

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  Corney

  Latest info: according to a local social activist who attended court hearings, and to the org's press release, the found weapons (two F1 hand grenades and a mortar shell, as was claimed on state TV) were unsuitable WW2 artifacts. They were possessed by a non-JW pensioner, formerly a volunteer searching for the remains of fallen Soviet soldiers, who is husband of a 69 yrs old Witness.

  Surely, media (that didn't even try to request for more details from police or for a comment from the org) won't correct or retract their reckless and dishonest coverage of this nothingburger, and I wouldn't be surprised if few months later a Church-affiliated "expert" will lecture police officers about "a large arsenal that was seized from Jehovists in Kirov".
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  44

  JW detained in Putin's Russia ... accused of extremism

  by mikeflood in

  1. social
  2. current

  from bbc news "five jw's from the kirov region detained with about $ 7,500 accused of funding and organizing meetings....they found literature...and two hand granades and a landmine".

  the russians are such idiots planting evidence....and quarrelling with the neutral and sheepish jw land...and of course inflamating their persecution complex.

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  Corney

  Diogenesister, just for clarification, Kirov region wasn't a WWII battlefield.
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  44

  JW detained in Putin's Russia ... accused of extremism

  by mikeflood in

  1. social
  2. current

  from bbc news "five jw's from the kirov region detained with about $ 7,500 accused of funding and organizing meetings....they found literature...and two hand granades and a landmine".

  the russians are such idiots planting evidence....and quarrelling with the neutral and sheepish jw land...and of course inflamating their persecution complex.

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  Corney

  There is no money laundering without a predicate offence resulting in income generation. In discussed case the committed "crime" is a crime of the same kind as "crimes" of "apostasy", "sodomy" or "anti-Soviet/anti-Government agitation". That's not legitimate criminal charges.

  And since the religious group was deprived its legal personality, it cannot be a taxpayer, and accounting isn't required. It can be considered like some persons collectively used their personal income - on which income tax was already paid - to fund their group activities. Therefore, there was no tax evasion.

  "An investigation WOULD reveal money being funnelled back to USA; where else would Watchtower want it to go but to themselves?" - According to the police press release, donations were collected "for paying the expenses of rental of premises for conducting meetings with members of the organization and purchasing and maintaining computer equipment" - and also for "transferring them to leaders of the religious organization 'Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia'" - a claim that's very vague and can be understood in multiple ways.

  Finally, I'm for full transparency of religious finances but that's irrelevant here.
  
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  44

  JW detained in Putin's Russia ... accused of extremism

  by mikeflood in

  1. social
  2. current

  from bbc news "five jw's from the kirov region detained with about $ 7,500 accused of funding and organizing meetings....they found literature...and two hand granades and a landmine".

  the russians are such idiots planting evidence....and quarrelling with the neutral and sheepish jw land...and of course inflamating their persecution complex.

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  Corney

  Hi Simon,

  I think the found explosive weapons could be unusable, possessed by a non-JW (e.g., an "unbelieving" relative) - or planted. It's surely not impossible that a JW possessed them, but the probability is too small.

  Anyway, Russian media already use this "news" in their "The Eternal Jewhovist"-style hate propaganda and portray Witnesses as potential terrorists - very alarming move that can result in violence from misinformed or malicious law enforcement and state security forces.

  drearyweather Can you list down all the legally registered religious groups that have been declared as "extremists"? Not just persecuted, but legally declared as "extremists"? Please include only religions, not nationalist or fundamentalist groups.

  Good question. Neither Mormons nor Pentecostals nor Hare Krishna (backed by Indian Government) nor even Scientologists are banned in Russia. Many religious groups (incl. dissenting Orthodox Christians and Baptists) are suppressed but it's not a "crime" to be their adherent.
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  44

  JW detained in Putin's Russia ... accused of extremism

  by mikeflood in

  1. social
  2. current

  from bbc news "five jw's from the kirov region detained with about $ 7,500 accused of funding and organizing meetings....they found literature...and two hand granades and a landmine".

  the russians are such idiots planting evidence....and quarrelling with the neutral and sheepish jw land...and of course inflamating their persecution complex.

  .

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  Corney

  So, Russia finds 5 JDubs funnelling $7,500 in funds back to Warwick USA. Instead of doing JWs a public service by launching a MONEY LAUNDERING investigation, adding serious expose to the world media, we are sold the story of JWs concealing "a landmine and 2 hand grenades". Really? How believable? What a pathetic missed opportunity. It plays into the GB's hands, underscoring the "persecution complex" prophecies, and COMPLETELY DISCREDITS the legitimate story of a cult funnelling funds illegally back to the USA. Hard-core JDubs will be salivating over this as they raid Wallmart to buy their food prep supplies ready for barricading themselves into their bunkers. (Head in my hands, muttering my disbelief

  Russia has the halls, but contributions ARE illegally flowing back to this banned USA religion.

  Legitimate story of money laundering, my ass.

  First, there was not even a claim of transferring money abroad on behalf of police.

  Second, there was not money laundering since there is nothing criminal in conducting religious meetings, "group singing of biblical songs, improving skills of conducting missionary activity, and studying religious literature, the so-called "Holy scripture" (bible) [sic]" (quote from the police press release and, consequently, from official indictment documents) - actions for whose planning and funding detained Witnesses are charged.

  Third, transferring money abroad doesn't constitute a legitimate justification, even partial, for unlawful and harsh persecution.

  Fourth, I don't understand what good is justification of such persecution.

  Shameful comments.
  
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  19

  OCT. 9 2018 US Department of Justice Now Investigating WatchTower for Extremist Activity

  by keinlezard in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  https://soundcloud.com/rick-fearon/oct-9-2018-us-department-of-justice-now-investigating-watchtower-for-extremist-activity.

  i trust rick fearon ... but it seem to me a so big thing ... that i can't really believe it !!!.

  and the reason of doj , seem to strange : "jw purchased fire arms" ???

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  Corney

  BREAKING: US Attorney General has established DOJ Office of Special Counsel to investigate Watchtower for crimes of blasphemy, collusion and employing prohibited methods of theocratic warfare. The recent speech of A. Morris III named "Obey the King and his helpers" will be examined, and Mr. Gorbatchov was subpoenaed to provide all related records in his possession.
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  6

  Number of KHs in Spain: drastic decrease?

  by Corney in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it was posted on reddit that 226 of 876 (or 1/4) kingdom halls in spain were sold during 2016. for many it sounds amazing and awesome.

  for me, this is implausible and needs fact-checking.

  the above-mentioned figures come from bi-annual publications of the observatory of religious pluralism in spain (established by the spanish ministry of justice, the spanish federation of municipalities and provinces, and the pluralism and coexistence foundation).

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  Corney

  Unlikely. In 2015 the number of KHs significantly "increased" in every major (10% or more of total Spanish population) autonomous community and province.
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  6

  Number of KHs in Spain: drastic decrease?

  by Corney in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it was posted on reddit that 226 of 876 (or 1/4) kingdom halls in spain were sold during 2016. for many it sounds amazing and awesome.

  for me, this is implausible and needs fact-checking.

  the above-mentioned figures come from bi-annual publications of the observatory of religious pluralism in spain (established by the spanish ministry of justice, the spanish federation of municipalities and provinces, and the pluralism and coexistence foundation).

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  Corney

  The above-mentioned reddit post contains figures relating to Austria. I added some ones from 1997 to complete the picture of long-term stagnation:

  1997 - 20.8K pubs, 298 congs, 202 KHs - https://web.archive.org/web/20181008183503/https://www.jehovas-zeugen.at/fileadmin/user_upload/02-Anerkennung/Anerkennung-link-file/19980227_ECHR_JZ_I.pdf (p. 4)

  2008 - 21.2K (20.7K according to 2009 Yearbook) pubs, 296 congs, 193 KHs - https://web.archive.org/web/20131030113230/http://www.jehovas-zeugen.at/fileadmin/user_upload/01-Wer-wir-sind/02-Struktur-link-file/2008_Glaubensangehoerige.pdf

  2017 - 21.6K pubs, 301 congs, 173 KHs - https://web.archive.org/save/https://religion.orf.at/stories/2835258/
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  6

  Number of KHs in Spain: drastic decrease?

  by Corney in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it was posted on reddit that 226 of 876 (or 1/4) kingdom halls in spain were sold during 2016. for many it sounds amazing and awesome.

  for me, this is implausible and needs fact-checking.

  the above-mentioned figures come from bi-annual publications of the observatory of religious pluralism in spain (established by the spanish ministry of justice, the spanish federation of municipalities and provinces, and the pluralism and coexistence foundation).

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  Corney

  There were 1,502 congregations in 2016. I think they could count both owned and rented properties and/or halls instead of buildings (I mean KH complexes - but doubt they have many ones in Spain).
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  60

  Russia=King of the North, USA=King of the South? New info coming in from Annual Meeting 2018

  by Jules Saturn in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it was announced in this year’s annual meeting that they believe that the king of the north is russia and the king of the south is us/britain.

  for me this is the first time hearing from the society actually identifying the identity of the king of the north.

  very interesting times!

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  Corney

  But the Soviet Union (USSR) and Russia are separate entities. The Soviet Union (USSR) consisted of about 15 states and it no longer exists. It just so happens that Russia was one of those 15 states. Russia is not the Soviet Union (USSR), there were 14 other countries in addition to Russia which were a part of it.

  Russia is the down-sized and modified Soviet Union and its legal successor. It isn't just one of 15 former Soviet republics; it inherited nearly half of the USSR's population and 3/4 of its territory as like as its seat in the UN Security Council and nuclear arsenal. Russian economy and military are larger and stronger than ones of 14 other former SSRs combined. Moreover, its army is the second or third strongest in the world.

  they weren't saying Russia was the king of the north when they had a nice branch there and collecting a tidy sum in donations from the people. Ipocrities

  You say this like they offend Russia. In fact, they just declared it eschatologically significant. The US&UK are "a false prophet" and "a two-horned wild beast that spoke like a dragon", and who cares?.

  As to "a tidy sum in donations'. More than half of the Russian branch's expenses were funded by foreign donations and grants. And it received from 'its' congregations (170K publishers) just three times more money than Watch Tower Ireland from Irish ones (6K pubs). The Russian branch was expensive, not profitable.
  

  For the Russian state it is a gift and a shot to an open goal. This happend earlier in communist country's. With one victim: the local witnesses, and two winners: the state and the wts. G.

  I don't understand how this is a win for WT. On the one hand, major decrease in Russia and painful blow for the organization. What's on the other hand? Purely speculative reasonings about encouraging effect of the new martyrs' stories?