Posts by Corney

44

JW detained in Putin's Russia ... accused of extremism

by mikeflood in

from bbc news "five jw's from the kirov region detained with about $ 7,500 accused of funding and organizing meetings....they found literature...and two hand granades and a landmine".

the russians are such idiots planting evidence....and quarrelling with the neutral and sheepish jw land...and of course inflamating their persecution complex.

.

Corney

Diogenesister, just for clarification, Kirov region wasn't a WWII battlefield.

44

JW detained in Putin's Russia ... accused of extremism

by mikeflood in

from bbc news "five jw's from the kirov region detained with about $ 7,500 accused of funding and organizing meetings....they found literature...and two hand granades and a landmine".

the russians are such idiots planting evidence....and quarrelling with the neutral and sheepish jw land...and of course inflamating their persecution complex.

.

There is no money laundering without a predicate offence resulting in income generation. In discussed case the committed "crime" is a crime of the same kind as "crimes" of "apostasy", "sodomy" or "anti-Soviet/anti-Government agitation". That's not legitimate criminal charges.

And since the religious group was deprived its legal personality, it cannot be a taxpayer, and accounting isn't required. It can be considered like some persons collectively used their personal income - on which income tax was already paid - to fund their group activities. Therefore, there was no tax evasion.

"An investigation WOULD reveal money being funnelled back to USA; where else would Watchtower want it to go but to themselves?" - According to the police press release, donations were collected "for paying the expenses of rental of premises for conducting meetings with members of the organization and purchasing and maintaining computer equipment" - and also for "transferring them to leaders of the religious organization 'Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia'" - a claim that's very vague and can be understood in multiple ways.

Finally, I'm for full transparency of religious finances but that's irrelevant here.

44

JW detained in Putin's Russia ... accused of extremism

by mikeflood in

from bbc news "five jw's from the kirov region detained with about $ 7,500 accused of funding and organizing meetings....they found literature...and two hand granades and a landmine".

the russians are such idiots planting evidence....and quarrelling with the neutral and sheepish jw land...and of course inflamating their persecution complex.

.

Corney

Hi Simon,

I think the found explosive weapons could be unusable, possessed by a non-JW (e.g., an "unbelieving" relative) - or planted. It's surely not impossible that a JW possessed them, but the probability is too small.

Anyway, Russian media already use this "news" in their "The Eternal Jewhovist"-style hate propaganda and portray Witnesses as potential terrorists - very alarming move that can result in violence from misinformed or malicious law enforcement and state security forces.

drearyweather Can you list down all the legally registered religious groups that have been declared as "extremists"? Not just persecuted, but legally declared as "extremists"? Please include only religions, not nationalist or fundamentalist groups.

Good question. Neither Mormons nor Pentecostals nor Hare Krishna (backed by Indian Government) nor even Scientologists are banned in Russia. Many religious groups (incl. dissenting Orthodox Christians and Baptists) are suppressed but it's not a "crime" to be their adherent.

44

JW detained in Putin's Russia ... accused of extremism

by mikeflood in

from bbc news "five jw's from the kirov region detained with about $ 7,500 accused of funding and organizing meetings....they found literature...and two hand granades and a landmine".

the russians are such idiots planting evidence....and quarrelling with the neutral and sheepish jw land...and of course inflamating their persecution complex.

.

Corney

So, Russia finds 5 JDubs funnelling $7,500 in funds back to Warwick USA. Instead of doing JWs a public service by launching a MONEY LAUNDERING investigation, adding serious expose to the world media, we are sold the story of JWs concealing "a landmine and 2 hand grenades". Really? How believable? What a pathetic missed opportunity. It plays into the GB's hands, underscoring the "persecution complex" prophecies, and COMPLETELY DISCREDITS the legitimate story of a cult funnelling funds illegally back to the USA. Hard-core JDubs will be salivating over this as they raid Wallmart to buy their food prep supplies ready for barricading themselves into their bunkers. (Head in my hands, muttering my disbelief

Russia has the halls, but contributions ARE illegally flowing back to this banned USA religion.

Legitimate story of money laundering, my ass.

First, there was not even a claim of transferring money abroad on behalf of police.

Second, there was not money laundering since there is nothing criminal in conducting religious meetings, "group singing of biblical songs, improving skills of conducting missionary activity, and studying religious literature, the so-called "Holy scripture" (bible) [sic]" (quote from the police press release and, consequently, from official indictment documents) - actions for whose planning and funding detained Witnesses are charged.

Third, transferring money abroad doesn't constitute a legitimate justification, even partial, for unlawful and harsh persecution.

Fourth, I don't understand what good is justification of such persecution.

Shameful comments.

19

OCT. 9 2018 US Department of Justice Now Investigating WatchTower for Extremist Activity

by keinlezard in

https://soundcloud.com/rick-fearon/oct-9-2018-us-department-of-justice-now-investigating-watchtower-for-extremist-activity.

i trust rick fearon ... but it seem to me a so big thing ... that i can't really believe it !!!.

and the reason of doj , seem to strange : "jw purchased fire arms" ???

Corney

BREAKING: US Attorney General has established DOJ Office of Special Counsel to investigate Watchtower for crimes of blasphemy, collusion and employing prohibited methods of theocratic warfare. The recent speech of A. Morris III named "Obey the King and his helpers" will be examined, and Mr. Gorbatchov was subpoenaed to provide all related records in his possession.

6

Number of KHs in Spain: drastic decrease?

by Corney in

it was posted on reddit that 226 of 876 (or 1/4) kingdom halls in spain were sold during 2016. for many it sounds amazing and awesome.

for me, this is implausible and needs fact-checking.

the above-mentioned figures come from bi-annual publications of the observatory of religious pluralism in spain (established by the spanish ministry of justice, the spanish federation of municipalities and provinces, and the pluralism and coexistence foundation).

Corney

Unlikely. In 2015 the number of KHs significantly "increased" in every major (10% or more of total Spanish population) autonomous community and province.

6

Number of KHs in Spain: drastic decrease?

by Corney in

it was posted on reddit that 226 of 876 (or 1/4) kingdom halls in spain were sold during 2016. for many it sounds amazing and awesome.

for me, this is implausible and needs fact-checking.

the above-mentioned figures come from bi-annual publications of the observatory of religious pluralism in spain (established by the spanish ministry of justice, the spanish federation of municipalities and provinces, and the pluralism and coexistence foundation).

Corney

The above-mentioned reddit post contains figures relating to Austria. I added some ones from 1997 to complete the picture of long-term stagnation:

1997 - 20.8K pubs, 298 congs, 202 KHs - https://web.archive.org/web/20181008183503/https://www.jehovas-zeugen.at/fileadmin/user_upload/02-Anerkennung/Anerkennung-link-file/19980227_ECHR_JZ_I.pdf (p. 4)

2008 - 21.2K (20.7K according to 2009 Yearbook) pubs, 296 congs, 193 KHs - https://web.archive.org/web/20131030113230/http://www.jehovas-zeugen.at/fileadmin/user_upload/01-Wer-wir-sind/02-Struktur-link-file/2008_Glaubensangehoerige.pdf

2017 - 21.6K pubs, 301 congs, 173 KHs - https://web.archive.org/save/https://religion.orf.at/stories/2835258/

6

Number of KHs in Spain: drastic decrease?

by Corney in

it was posted on reddit that 226 of 876 (or 1/4) kingdom halls in spain were sold during 2016. for many it sounds amazing and awesome.

for me, this is implausible and needs fact-checking.

the above-mentioned figures come from bi-annual publications of the observatory of religious pluralism in spain (established by the spanish ministry of justice, the spanish federation of municipalities and provinces, and the pluralism and coexistence foundation).

Corney

There were 1,502 congregations in 2016. I think they could count both owned and rented properties and/or halls instead of buildings (I mean KH complexes - but doubt they have many ones in Spain).

60

Russia=King of the North, USA=King of the South? New info coming in from Annual Meeting 2018

by Jules Saturn in

it was announced in this year’s annual meeting that they believe that the king of the north is russia and the king of the south is us/britain.

for me this is the first time hearing from the society actually identifying the identity of the king of the north.

very interesting times!

Corney

But the Soviet Union (USSR) and Russia are separate entities. The Soviet Union (USSR) consisted of about 15 states and it no longer exists. It just so happens that Russia was one of those 15 states. Russia is not the Soviet Union (USSR), there were 14 other countries in addition to Russia which were a part of it.

Russia is the down-sized and modified Soviet Union and its legal successor. It isn't just one of 15 former Soviet republics; it inherited nearly half of the USSR's population and 3/4 of its territory as like as its seat in the UN Security Council and nuclear arsenal. Russian economy and military are larger and stronger than ones of 14 other former SSRs combined. Moreover, its army is the second or third strongest in the world.

they weren't saying Russia was the king of the north when they had a nice branch there and collecting a tidy sum in donations from the people. Ipocrities

You say this like they offend Russia. In fact, they just declared it eschatologically significant. The US&UK are "a false prophet" and "a two-horned wild beast that spoke like a dragon", and who cares?.

As to "a tidy sum in donations'. More than half of the Russian branch's expenses were funded by foreign donations and grants. And it received from 'its' congregations (170K publishers) just three times more money than Watch Tower Ireland from Irish ones (6K pubs). The Russian branch was expensive, not profitable.

For the Russian state it is a gift and a shot to an open goal. This happend earlier in communist country's. With one victim: the local witnesses, and two winners: the state and the wts. G.

I don't understand how this is a win for WT. On the one hand, major decrease in Russia and painful blow for the organization. What's on the other hand? Purely speculative reasonings about encouraging effect of the new martyrs' stories?

6

Number of KHs in Spain: drastic decrease?

by Corney in

it was posted on reddit that 226 of 876 (or 1/4) kingdom halls in spain were sold during 2016. for many it sounds amazing and awesome.

for me, this is implausible and needs fact-checking.

the above-mentioned figures come from bi-annual publications of the observatory of religious pluralism in spain (established by the spanish ministry of justice, the spanish federation of municipalities and provinces, and the pluralism and coexistence foundation).

Corney

It was posted on Reddit that 226 of 876 (or 1/4) Kingdom Halls in Spain were sold during 2016. For many it sounds amazing and awesome. For me, this is implausible and needs fact-checking.

The above-mentioned figures come from bi-annual publications of The Observatory of Religious Pluralism in Spain (established by the Spanish Ministry of Justice, the Spanish Federation of Municipalities and Provinces, and the Pluralism and Coexistence Foundation). And yes, according to these publications, the number of KHs in Spain was 876 as of December 1, 2015, and 650 as of December 2016 - but also:

706 as of June 15, 2011,

703 as of June 20, 2012,

718 as of June 30, 2013, and

702 as of June 1, 2014,

701 as of June 1, 2015,

856 as of June 2016,

636 as of June 2018.

Does anybody believe JWs have build 175 Kingdom Halls (+25%) between June and December 2015 and have sold 206 (24%) ones a year later? I think not. I think the conclusion is obvious: the numbers of KHs for Dec 2015 and June 2016 are anomalous, the result of an error or a different methodology. The number of Kingdom Halls declined, but not so drastically - by 51 (7%) between June 2015 and December 2016.

For more data, see this spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LntyFxJzkdSVT7_pVpR479fqkDJzeVGY/view?usp=sharing

Full list of Kingdom Halls in Spain is available here and here.