Posts by Saethydd

26

Questions for the Biblical God

by Saethydd in

i consider myself an agnostic, i feel no sense of certainty that there is a single all-powerful creator who made the entire universe, and yet i must acknowledge that the universe is a large place that is filled with much beauty so the possibility of an intelligent mind being behind it is certainly there.

lately, however, i do have more and more doubts about the god of the bible being a candidate for that all-powerful creator should such a being even exist at all.. these doubts are founded upon a number of questions for which i have never found any satisfying biblical or logical answer.

instead, i was simply chided with the remark that "god's actions aren't always meant to be understood by humans," which i found to be a very unsatisfying answer.

Saethydd

I can think of bible passages that prove that pain and misery exist in that supposed biblical spirit realm too, even eternally. . right? so:

You can? I'm not familiar with them. Could you post them here?

We have to observe nature, its law's use it, and face reality. Pain might be more tolerable in many cases than we think, without predation, vegetarians would destroy the planet, the "design" is a balance. do not take suffering so personal. It is not getting any better than you can make it, that seems the message from the maker.

I suppose that makes a certain amount of sense, but that is also not the message that I've ever found in the Bible. It goes more along the lines of "rely on God to solve your problems... eventually."

I can certainly see that death and decay are needed for the systems of the universe, as they currently exist, to be balanced and progressive. Though I would still argue that an omnipotent god could make the balance work without death.

26

Questions for the Biblical God

by Saethydd in

i consider myself an agnostic, i feel no sense of certainty that there is a single all-powerful creator who made the entire universe, and yet i must acknowledge that the universe is a large place that is filled with much beauty so the possibility of an intelligent mind being behind it is certainly there.

lately, however, i do have more and more doubts about the god of the bible being a candidate for that all-powerful creator should such a being even exist at all.. these doubts are founded upon a number of questions for which i have never found any satisfying biblical or logical answer.

instead, i was simply chided with the remark that "god's actions aren't always meant to be understood by humans," which i found to be a very unsatisfying answer.

Saethydd

because slow decay, and also violent ends, provides for screening of desirable outcomes in life's evolution as well as in inanimate mature. example,
generations of stars died, faded away, or compressed in violent collapses, Super Novae.
both types of death have produced all the abundant element we need, all made from Hydrogen.
Dying is good for us, as a whole. possibly done without the creator lifting so much of a finger, after the creation event.
not speaking for the wt/bible god here, but a possible creator as observed in action of his creation.

Death and decay still cause misery and pain, even if you can put a poetic spin on it. So it still doesn't make sense that an all-powerful all-knowing creator would a make a universe that relies on death and decay. Especially since the existence of the spirit realm where angels and god supposedly reside would prove that a system of life can exist without such things.

(Saw that you added that last sentence, and would agree that maybe a god could have just set the basic systems of physics, and chemistry, etc and let it go from there. I can't prove such a thing of course, it is merely a musing.)

28

Fading or Disassociating

by Saethydd in

hello, i'm new here.. i'm a college student who has been raised in the "truth" for my entire life.

i was baptized at 10 years old, and looking back now i know i didn't fully grasp everything involved, for one thing i don't even recall ever going to jehovah in a special prayer to dedicate myself to him, but anyway that's the past and my focus is really on the present.

i'm currently pursuing an associates degree, but i find myself desiring to pursue a bachelors in my chosen field so that i may have a somewhat more secure future.

Saethydd

I guess after I'm financially stable and away from the organization I'll have to do my best to find a kind agnostic girl who can see through religious smokescreens if I want to avoid her ever being convinced by the Witnesses someday.

26

Questions for the Biblical God

by Saethydd in

i consider myself an agnostic, i feel no sense of certainty that there is a single all-powerful creator who made the entire universe, and yet i must acknowledge that the universe is a large place that is filled with much beauty so the possibility of an intelligent mind being behind it is certainly there.

lately, however, i do have more and more doubts about the god of the bible being a candidate for that all-powerful creator should such a being even exist at all.. these doubts are founded upon a number of questions for which i have never found any satisfying biblical or logical answer.

instead, i was simply chided with the remark that "god's actions aren't always meant to be understood by humans," which i found to be a very unsatisfying answer.

Saethydd

Here is my big question for God (if he exists): Why wouldn't you make everyone know for 100% certain that you exist and what is expected of us?

I've had that one too. The explanation others have given me is that God acts in that way to give people the option of not believing in him, but if you want to believe there is enough evidence there for people with "the right heart condition." Which doesn't make any sense to me because I would honestly rather believe that there is a God out there who is going to make everything okay but all of the evidence is so circumstantial, apparently God has no system to help those kinds of people out.

The other explanation I hear for this is that if God was a certainty many people might worship him simply out of fear. To which I say if he can read hearts what difference that make? It's not like they'd be able to fool him. And don't even get me started on the implications of a God who can only back his authority with fear of death, instead of logic and reason.

When creating the universe, why did you design it in such a way that a single mistake by a single one of your "perfect" creations would lead to billions of persons (including billions of infants and children incapable of doing, thinking, or saying anything remotely resembling "sin") suffering excruciating pain and anguish, repeatedly, over thousands of years?
Couldn't you have planned it out a little better?
How about, instead of "the wages sin pays is death", you would have tried "the wages sin pays is mild inconvenience and escalating discomfort, so that people, even if remarkably dumb, eventually figure out on their own that [not sinning] is preferable"?

That is a very good point and not something I hadn't considered before. One of my favorite quotes from Captain Picard was "There can be no justice so long as laws are absolute."

26

Questions for the Biblical God

by Saethydd in

i consider myself an agnostic, i feel no sense of certainty that there is a single all-powerful creator who made the entire universe, and yet i must acknowledge that the universe is a large place that is filled with much beauty so the possibility of an intelligent mind being behind it is certainly there.

lately, however, i do have more and more doubts about the god of the bible being a candidate for that all-powerful creator should such a being even exist at all.. these doubts are founded upon a number of questions for which i have never found any satisfying biblical or logical answer.

instead, i was simply chided with the remark that "god's actions aren't always meant to be understood by humans," which i found to be a very unsatisfying answer.

Saethydd

I consider myself an agnostic, I feel no sense of certainty that there is a single all-powerful creator who made the entire Universe, and yet I must acknowledge that the Universe is a large place that is filled with much beauty so the possibility of an intelligent mind being behind it is certainly there. Lately, however, I do have more and more doubts about the God of the Bible being a candidate for that all-powerful creator should such a being even exist at all.

These doubts are founded upon a number of questions for which I have never found any satisfying Biblical or logical answer. Instead, I was simply chided with the remark that "God's actions aren't always meant to be understood by humans," which I found to be a very unsatisfying answer. Because if God's purpose for us is to be human reflections of himself then don't we NEED to understand his motivations for taking the action that he takes?

In any case, I've decided started this thread as a way to compile some of these questions to see if anyone else may have answers that I have overlooked, or if they have more questions that I have not even asked yet.

Why would a creator with such a high regard for life specifically design a universe in which all life slowly decays?

Why would a creator who cares about all life cause multiple mass extinction events throughout the history of the Earth?

Why would a creator impose certain sanctions upon his creatures of higher intelligence, while at the same specifically design lower creatures to break those rules? (Two examples of this being the homosexuals tendencies among mammals that occur with about 10% frequency, and the several species of animals that consume blood)

Why would an all powerful creator stoop to human methods to achieve his goals? (For example: why exterminate an entire population of indigenous people so that your "special" people have a land to call their own when you could literally create them a floating island in the sky if you wanted, or teleport the natives to the other side of the planet if your people needed that land specifically. Genocide seems cruel and unnecessary, especially when your options are not limited by any factors of feasibility.)

Those are just the ones that come to me off the top of my head. If I should think of any more I will post them as well.

28

Fading or Disassociating

by Saethydd in

hello, i'm new here.. i'm a college student who has been raised in the "truth" for my entire life.

i was baptized at 10 years old, and looking back now i know i didn't fully grasp everything involved, for one thing i don't even recall ever going to jehovah in a special prayer to dedicate myself to him, but anyway that's the past and my focus is really on the present.

i'm currently pursuing an associates degree, but i find myself desiring to pursue a bachelors in my chosen field so that i may have a somewhat more secure future.

Saethydd

Thank you all for your kind words. Even though I know in my head what I should do, my heart still feels torn. I still feel as if I'm betraying all of my family and friends by doubting the organization they regard so highly. But it's refreshing to finally not have people treat me as if I'm crazy for having doubts without verifiable evidence.

Fortunately, I was not disfellowshipped for apostasy nor did I give any indication that I doubted the official doctrines, and honestly at the time they weren't a major issue for me. Oh I had them of course, they've been there for years but like good (or moe accurately a "gullible") Witness, I just shoved them aside and did my best to ignore them. After all I didn't want Satan to mislead me, which is basically thr warning I've been given my whole life about any evidence that might shed any negative light on the Society, or stand to disprove their teachings.

I suppose the course of action that has the least amount of pain for me and my family is to act as if I'm coming around for the time being so that I can fade out at a time and place of my choosing. Though I fear that my life will still be complicated by this whole situation. One of my great desires for the last several years has been to someday find a woman that I can share my life with, however, I'm not so sure I could marry a Witness girl, especially after I fade. And even if I've distanced myself from the Society I doubt my marrying a "wordly" girl would ever sit well with my family. But perhaps that is simply a bridge I will have to cross when I come to it.

3

"50 Years a Watchtower Slave" Chapter 3 Part B

by new boy in

my mother had a strange relationship with all the men in her life including me.

before 1961 she loved my father in some strange way.

she really thought her new religion would get my father back on the right path, back on the straight and narrow.

Saethydd

Any place that links up all the entries or do I just have to search around for them?

28

Fading or Disassociating

by Saethydd in

hello, i'm new here.. i'm a college student who has been raised in the "truth" for my entire life.

i was baptized at 10 years old, and looking back now i know i didn't fully grasp everything involved, for one thing i don't even recall ever going to jehovah in a special prayer to dedicate myself to him, but anyway that's the past and my focus is really on the present.

i'm currently pursuing an associates degree, but i find myself desiring to pursue a bachelors in my chosen field so that i may have a somewhat more secure future.

Saethydd

Thanks, it does feel good to know that I'm not alone, especially when at the moment I'm feeling very isolated because of the disfellowshipping.

42

I feel really, really sorry for those born into the Jehovah's Witness religion

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

some facts that make the difference between you and me:.

1 - as a person raised by non jw family, my parents have never loved me based on conditions set out by a group of old men who they don't even know.

how does it feel to know that you are in the unique situation where your parents brought you into the world and said 'i'll show love to you.

Saethydd

I can relate to many of the posts on here. I was raised a JW, and at at 21 I've been baptized for more than half my life. I remember in elementary school how I wasn't able to join any teams except for the quiz bowl. I remember how I was never allowed to spend the night with any of my friends from school. To make things worse I grew up in a congregation that didn't really have anyone my own age to spend time with. Eventually in my teenage years I did finally make one good friend in another congregation, and he hasn't spoken to me since I told him I was about to be disfellowshipped a few months ago. At the moment I'm trying to build better friendships with the people that I've attended college classes with. I honestly have found them to be far more engaging than any Witnesses that I recall speaking to, far more open-minded. Maintaining even those friendships has been tough though since I still live at home with my Witness parents which limits my ability to socialize with my friends from college. At least not without potentially upsetting my parents, which I'd rather not do since I do.

28

Fading or Disassociating

by Saethydd in

hello, i'm new here.. i'm a college student who has been raised in the "truth" for my entire life.

i was baptized at 10 years old, and looking back now i know i didn't fully grasp everything involved, for one thing i don't even recall ever going to jehovah in a special prayer to dedicate myself to him, but anyway that's the past and my focus is really on the present.

i'm currently pursuing an associates degree, but i find myself desiring to pursue a bachelors in my chosen field so that i may have a somewhat more secure future.

Saethydd

Hello, I'm new here.

I'm a college student who has been raised in the "truth" for my entire life. I was baptized at 10 years old, and looking back now I know I didn't fully grasp everything involved, for one thing I don't even recall ever going to Jehovah in a special prayer to dedicate myself to him, but anyway that's the past and my focus is really on the present. I'm currently pursuing an Associates Degree, but I find myself desiring to pursue a Bachelors in my chosen field so that I may have a somewhat more secure future. (I of course realize even that comes with no guarantee, but it is statistically better.) Anyway that is not the purpose behind this topic but it does factor in.

At this moment in time I am disfellowshipped and have been for some months. The reasons for that are of a personal nature and not ones that I necessarily object to, however, it has resulted in my being less afraid to question my beliefs and question the Watchtower Society, and even the Bible itself as in unimpeachable moral code, or that was certainly inspired by an all-powerful creator. (I don't claim that I know it wasn't, simply that I can't be sure.) Since being disfellowshipped I was also less dissuaded from avoiding "apostate" sites such as this one, JW Facts, and JW Survey. While I have reservations that the Society itself is evil and money-hungry, (the reason for this being that they do urge their followers to focus on the preaching work instead of wealth, and have yet to see a rationalization for this from their detractors), I do think it is possible that they are simply deluded.

The economy being what it is I still live at home with my parents and will probably continue to do so as long as I am in college. My parents and my only sibling who still lives at home with me are all still active members of the local congregation and I am still attending with them. Partly because I don't want to argue with them about it, and partly because I'm hoping that somehow by doing this I will eventually be able to rationalize the type of faith I know they want me to have. After having taken college classes in World History, and doing real research (not simply looking stuff up in the Watchtower Library) I have discovered how tentative much of their "evidence" is, and have begun to notice the many logical fallacies in their arguments.

That basically sums up how I have found myself in my current position. I feel as if I have to choose between ignoring my rational integrity (which I don't know how to do, even if I were so inclined, because it would always be nagging me in the back of my mind), being dishonest with my family and my closest friends for the rest of my life, or leaving behind everyone who I have ever truly known and loved. I have done what I fear may have been a mistake and brought up my doubts with my parents, they wasted no time in pushing a mountain of literature I have yet to read in it's entirety, partly because I have other things I want to do, and partly because when I do get started on one of the publications I try to take the time to research the claims it makes and oftentimes find that it's arguments are severely flawed in one way or another.

At the moment I think I would like to get reinstated and then move away and fade out after I graduate from college so that I will be treated better than if I simply walked away now and remained disfellowshipped. I would still be treated differently I know, but perhaps it wouldn't be quite so bad, though on the other hand if I fade then every time I do interact with my friends and family they would probably be trying to bring me back into the "truth." Has anyone else face a situation similar to this one?

(Sorry I know this is really long, especially for a first post, but thank you for reading it.)