Posts by Saethydd

22

Is it just for social reasons you remain?

by UnshackleTheChains in

as someone who has tried to fade on various occasions, i always end up attending meetings!

why is this the case you may ask?.

if i was single, i would have kissed this high control american religion goodbye many years ago.

Saethydd

Couldn't be more wrong. 90% of our religion believes in God.

I think it would be more accurate to say that 90% claim to believe in God.

26

Questions for the Biblical God

by Saethydd in

i consider myself an agnostic, i feel no sense of certainty that there is a single all-powerful creator who made the entire universe, and yet i must acknowledge that the universe is a large place that is filled with much beauty so the possibility of an intelligent mind being behind it is certainly there.

lately, however, i do have more and more doubts about the god of the bible being a candidate for that all-powerful creator should such a being even exist at all.. these doubts are founded upon a number of questions for which i have never found any satisfying biblical or logical answer.

instead, i was simply chided with the remark that "god's actions aren't always meant to be understood by humans," which i found to be a very unsatisfying answer.

Saethydd

So if it became aware to humanity that another large asteroid was going to impact onto the earth, again notably killing off most of everything living on this planet including are selves, would the creationists still claim of an intelligent grand creator of the universe ?

I imagine they would think it a sign from God that everyone else (except for their particular religious group of course) has been wicked and thus are about to be destroyed. Much the same way Bible writers probably used the idolatry of the Israelites to rationalize their being conquered by a much larger nation, even though they were supposed to be "God's People."

26

Questions for the Biblical God

by Saethydd in

i consider myself an agnostic, i feel no sense of certainty that there is a single all-powerful creator who made the entire universe, and yet i must acknowledge that the universe is a large place that is filled with much beauty so the possibility of an intelligent mind being behind it is certainly there.

lately, however, i do have more and more doubts about the god of the bible being a candidate for that all-powerful creator should such a being even exist at all.. these doubts are founded upon a number of questions for which i have never found any satisfying biblical or logical answer.

instead, i was simply chided with the remark that "god's actions aren't always meant to be understood by humans," which i found to be a very unsatisfying answer.

Saethydd

Rev 9:10, 11:10, 14:10 20:10 The bible god put them there, for those that want to take them literally, and billions did, and some still do.

Perhaps I'm just not reading enough context but all of those verses with exception of the last one appear to me to still be talking about suffering for physical creatures, not spiritual ones.

added: Most likely your kind of an ideal universe, would have to be a static, sterile one, with no progression, handcrafted in one shot. by contrast

That's one way to put it I suppose, though it sounds kind of bleak when described like that, however, it does raise an interesting philosophical question. Which is better, an imperfect universe that grows, changes, and makes progress, or a perfect universe that has no need to ever change at all because progress is unnecessary under such conditions? While such a universe might sound boring to those of used to this one, it was in fact perfection wouldn't that necessitate that its denizens also find it in engaging?

But anyway I may be getting off of my own original topic with that line of thought. XD

28

Fading or Disassociating

by Saethydd in

hello, i'm new here.. i'm a college student who has been raised in the "truth" for my entire life.

i was baptized at 10 years old, and looking back now i know i didn't fully grasp everything involved, for one thing i don't even recall ever going to jehovah in a special prayer to dedicate myself to him, but anyway that's the past and my focus is really on the present.

i'm currently pursuing an associates degree, but i find myself desiring to pursue a bachelors in my chosen field so that i may have a somewhat more secure future.

Saethydd

Yet, JWs with money will typically be treated more favorably than those without, regardless of how much preaching either do.

I guess I've never personally observed this, but then again I don't think I've ever been in a congregation with a large wealth disparity among its members.

I have however noticed the shift in focus towards donations in past few years, in fact, I recall a Circuit Overseer saying something along the lines of, "we should have the people on our magazine routes trained to give us donations," and that never sat quite right with me. I can also recall at least a half-dozen votes in the past few years about passing resolutions concerning how much money our congregation sends the branch out of its local donations on top of what they received from the Worldwide Work. Those things bothered me a bit but I tried not to dwell on them, though I never did try to "train" my magazine calls to give me donations.

You are the best judge as to how your family would treat you. If they are the type that non attendance and no FS is equal to turning your back on Jehovah, then it maybe best to not worry about reinstatement just so you can walk away.

As far as that goes, I'm honestly not sure, I've got a few cousins who aren't really involved in the "truth" at all, and my family did attend their weddings and baby showers and such, but none of those cousins ever got baptized in the first place, so it may be completely different with me.

26

Questions for the Biblical God

by Saethydd in

i consider myself an agnostic, i feel no sense of certainty that there is a single all-powerful creator who made the entire universe, and yet i must acknowledge that the universe is a large place that is filled with much beauty so the possibility of an intelligent mind being behind it is certainly there.

lately, however, i do have more and more doubts about the god of the bible being a candidate for that all-powerful creator should such a being even exist at all.. these doubts are founded upon a number of questions for which i have never found any satisfying biblical or logical answer.

instead, i was simply chided with the remark that "god's actions aren't always meant to be understood by humans," which i found to be a very unsatisfying answer.

Saethydd

I can think of bible passages that prove that pain and misery exist in that supposed biblical spirit realm too, even eternally. . right? so:

You can? I'm not familiar with them. Could you post them here?

We have to observe nature, its law's use it, and face reality. Pain might be more tolerable in many cases than we think, without predation, vegetarians would destroy the planet, the "design" is a balance. do not take suffering so personal. It is not getting any better than you can make it, that seems the message from the maker.

I suppose that makes a certain amount of sense, but that is also not the message that I've ever found in the Bible. It goes more along the lines of "rely on God to solve your problems... eventually."

I can certainly see that death and decay are needed for the systems of the universe, as they currently exist, to be balanced and progressive. Though I would still argue that an omnipotent god could make the balance work without death.

26

Questions for the Biblical God

by Saethydd in

i consider myself an agnostic, i feel no sense of certainty that there is a single all-powerful creator who made the entire universe, and yet i must acknowledge that the universe is a large place that is filled with much beauty so the possibility of an intelligent mind being behind it is certainly there.

lately, however, i do have more and more doubts about the god of the bible being a candidate for that all-powerful creator should such a being even exist at all.. these doubts are founded upon a number of questions for which i have never found any satisfying biblical or logical answer.

instead, i was simply chided with the remark that "god's actions aren't always meant to be understood by humans," which i found to be a very unsatisfying answer.

Saethydd

because slow decay, and also violent ends, provides for screening of desirable outcomes in life's evolution as well as in inanimate mature. example,
generations of stars died, faded away, or compressed in violent collapses, Super Novae.
both types of death have produced all the abundant element we need, all made from Hydrogen.
Dying is good for us, as a whole. possibly done without the creator lifting so much of a finger, after the creation event.
not speaking for the wt/bible god here, but a possible creator as observed in action of his creation.

Death and decay still cause misery and pain, even if you can put a poetic spin on it. So it still doesn't make sense that an all-powerful all-knowing creator would a make a universe that relies on death and decay. Especially since the existence of the spirit realm where angels and god supposedly reside would prove that a system of life can exist without such things.

(Saw that you added that last sentence, and would agree that maybe a god could have just set the basic systems of physics, and chemistry, etc and let it go from there. I can't prove such a thing of course, it is merely a musing.)

28

Fading or Disassociating

by Saethydd in

hello, i'm new here.. i'm a college student who has been raised in the "truth" for my entire life.

i was baptized at 10 years old, and looking back now i know i didn't fully grasp everything involved, for one thing i don't even recall ever going to jehovah in a special prayer to dedicate myself to him, but anyway that's the past and my focus is really on the present.

i'm currently pursuing an associates degree, but i find myself desiring to pursue a bachelors in my chosen field so that i may have a somewhat more secure future.

Saethydd

I guess after I'm financially stable and away from the organization I'll have to do my best to find a kind agnostic girl who can see through religious smokescreens if I want to avoid her ever being convinced by the Witnesses someday.

26

Questions for the Biblical God

by Saethydd in

i consider myself an agnostic, i feel no sense of certainty that there is a single all-powerful creator who made the entire universe, and yet i must acknowledge that the universe is a large place that is filled with much beauty so the possibility of an intelligent mind being behind it is certainly there.

lately, however, i do have more and more doubts about the god of the bible being a candidate for that all-powerful creator should such a being even exist at all.. these doubts are founded upon a number of questions for which i have never found any satisfying biblical or logical answer.

instead, i was simply chided with the remark that "god's actions aren't always meant to be understood by humans," which i found to be a very unsatisfying answer.

Saethydd

Here is my big question for God (if he exists): Why wouldn't you make everyone know for 100% certain that you exist and what is expected of us?

I've had that one too. The explanation others have given me is that God acts in that way to give people the option of not believing in him, but if you want to believe there is enough evidence there for people with "the right heart condition." Which doesn't make any sense to me because I would honestly rather believe that there is a God out there who is going to make everything okay but all of the evidence is so circumstantial, apparently God has no system to help those kinds of people out.

The other explanation I hear for this is that if God was a certainty many people might worship him simply out of fear. To which I say if he can read hearts what difference that make? It's not like they'd be able to fool him. And don't even get me started on the implications of a God who can only back his authority with fear of death, instead of logic and reason.

When creating the universe, why did you design it in such a way that a single mistake by a single one of your "perfect" creations would lead to billions of persons (including billions of infants and children incapable of doing, thinking, or saying anything remotely resembling "sin") suffering excruciating pain and anguish, repeatedly, over thousands of years?
Couldn't you have planned it out a little better?
How about, instead of "the wages sin pays is death", you would have tried "the wages sin pays is mild inconvenience and escalating discomfort, so that people, even if remarkably dumb, eventually figure out on their own that [not sinning] is preferable"?

That is a very good point and not something I hadn't considered before. One of my favorite quotes from Captain Picard was "There can be no justice so long as laws are absolute."

26

Questions for the Biblical God

by Saethydd in

i consider myself an agnostic, i feel no sense of certainty that there is a single all-powerful creator who made the entire universe, and yet i must acknowledge that the universe is a large place that is filled with much beauty so the possibility of an intelligent mind being behind it is certainly there.

lately, however, i do have more and more doubts about the god of the bible being a candidate for that all-powerful creator should such a being even exist at all.. these doubts are founded upon a number of questions for which i have never found any satisfying biblical or logical answer.

instead, i was simply chided with the remark that "god's actions aren't always meant to be understood by humans," which i found to be a very unsatisfying answer.

Saethydd

I consider myself an agnostic, I feel no sense of certainty that there is a single all-powerful creator who made the entire Universe, and yet I must acknowledge that the Universe is a large place that is filled with much beauty so the possibility of an intelligent mind being behind it is certainly there. Lately, however, I do have more and more doubts about the God of the Bible being a candidate for that all-powerful creator should such a being even exist at all.

These doubts are founded upon a number of questions for which I have never found any satisfying Biblical or logical answer. Instead, I was simply chided with the remark that "God's actions aren't always meant to be understood by humans," which I found to be a very unsatisfying answer. Because if God's purpose for us is to be human reflections of himself then don't we NEED to understand his motivations for taking the action that he takes?

In any case, I've decided started this thread as a way to compile some of these questions to see if anyone else may have answers that I have overlooked, or if they have more questions that I have not even asked yet.

Why would a creator with such a high regard for life specifically design a universe in which all life slowly decays?

Why would a creator who cares about all life cause multiple mass extinction events throughout the history of the Earth?

Why would a creator impose certain sanctions upon his creatures of higher intelligence, while at the same specifically design lower creatures to break those rules? (Two examples of this being the homosexuals tendencies among mammals that occur with about 10% frequency, and the several species of animals that consume blood)

Why would an all powerful creator stoop to human methods to achieve his goals? (For example: why exterminate an entire population of indigenous people so that your "special" people have a land to call their own when you could literally create them a floating island in the sky if you wanted, or teleport the natives to the other side of the planet if your people needed that land specifically. Genocide seems cruel and unnecessary, especially when your options are not limited by any factors of feasibility.)

Those are just the ones that come to me off the top of my head. If I should think of any more I will post them as well.

28

Fading or Disassociating

by Saethydd in

hello, i'm new here.. i'm a college student who has been raised in the "truth" for my entire life.

i was baptized at 10 years old, and looking back now i know i didn't fully grasp everything involved, for one thing i don't even recall ever going to jehovah in a special prayer to dedicate myself to him, but anyway that's the past and my focus is really on the present.

i'm currently pursuing an associates degree, but i find myself desiring to pursue a bachelors in my chosen field so that i may have a somewhat more secure future.

Saethydd

Thank you all for your kind words. Even though I know in my head what I should do, my heart still feels torn. I still feel as if I'm betraying all of my family and friends by doubting the organization they regard so highly. But it's refreshing to finally not have people treat me as if I'm crazy for having doubts without verifiable evidence.

Fortunately, I was not disfellowshipped for apostasy nor did I give any indication that I doubted the official doctrines, and honestly at the time they weren't a major issue for me. Oh I had them of course, they've been there for years but like good (or moe accurately a "gullible") Witness, I just shoved them aside and did my best to ignore them. After all I didn't want Satan to mislead me, which is basically thr warning I've been given my whole life about any evidence that might shed any negative light on the Society, or stand to disprove their teachings.

I suppose the course of action that has the least amount of pain for me and my family is to act as if I'm coming around for the time being so that I can fade out at a time and place of my choosing. Though I fear that my life will still be complicated by this whole situation. One of my great desires for the last several years has been to someday find a woman that I can share my life with, however, I'm not so sure I could marry a Witness girl, especially after I fade. And even if I've distanced myself from the Society I doubt my marrying a "wordly" girl would ever sit well with my family. But perhaps that is simply a bridge I will have to cross when I come to it.