Richie

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Posts by Richie

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  38

  Breaking news: RONALD REAGAN HAS DIED TODAY

  by sf in

  1. social
  2. current

  .

  cspan and cnn just reported.. skally

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  Richie

  Even in death the left still does not get it. The Daily Kos says that "Reagan cannot be excused for his utter failure as president". Utter failure? When you win 49 out of 50 states in your re-election bid, I would stick my neck out and say the America people thought he was brilliantly successful. The only utter failure that exists is the left's inability to understand how popular Ronald Reagan was.

  Sadly, many leftists find it necessary to insult Regan after he has died. It shows you that the compassion and empathy that they claim to have is a complete and total lie. They only care about you if you agree with their political agenda. This reaction to his death gives you a view of the hate, immorality and animosity that exists within the Democratic party.

  You will not see we Republicans celebrating the day Bill Clinton dies.

  While my heart aches for President Reagan and his family, I am comforted to know that he is at peace with God.

  May the God you so strongly believed in rest your soul in heaven for eternity.
  
  Ronald Reagan "The Great Communicator" 1911 - 2004
• 
  38

  Breaking news: RONALD REAGAN HAS DIED TODAY

  by sf in

  1. social
  2. current

  .

  cspan and cnn just reported.. skally

  1. 
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  Richie

  Ronald Reagan was a President of great historic impact who led the United States with strength and conviction, and the positive impact of his policies is still felt today here and around the world. More than two decades after he was first elected President, the Republican Party still bears his imprint. Because Ronald Reagan lived, people across the globe live in greater freedom and prosperity.

  Richie :*)
• 
  38

  Breaking news: RONALD REAGAN HAS DIED TODAY

  by sf in

  1. social
  2. current

  .

  cspan and cnn just reported.. skally

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richie

  Ronald Reagan

  At the end of his two terms in office, Ronald Reagan viewed with satisfaction the achievements of his innovative program known as the Reagan Revolution, which aimed to reinvigorate the American people and reduce their reliance upon Government. He felt he had fulfilled his campaign pledge of 1980 to restore "the great, confident roar of American progress and growth and optimism."

  On February 6, 1911, Ronald Wilson Reagan was born to Nelle and John Reagan in Tampico, Illinois. He attended high school in nearby Dixon and then worked his way through Eureka College. There, he studied economics and sociology, played on the football team, and acted in school plays. Upon graduation, he became a radio sports announcer. A screen test in 1937 won him a contract in Hollywood. During the next two decades he appeared in 53 films.

  From his first marriage to actress Jane Wyman, he had two children, Maureen and Michael. Maureen passed away in 2001. In 1952 he married Nancy Davis, who was also an actress, and they had two children, Patricia Ann and Ronald Prescott.
  
  As president of the Screen Actors Guild, Reagan became embroiled in disputes over the issue of Communism in the film industry; his political views shifted from liberal to conservative. He toured the country as a television host, becoming a spokesman for conservatism. In 1966 he was elected Governor of California by a margin of a million votes; he was re-elected in 1970.

  Ronald Reagan won the Republican Presidential nomination in 1980 and chose as his running mate former Texas Congressman and United Nations Ambassador George Bush. Voters troubled by inflation and by the year-long confinement of Americans in Iran swept the Republican ticket into office. Reagan won 489 electoral votes to 49 for President Jimmy Carter.

  On January 20, 1981, Reagan took office. Only 69 days later he was shot by a would-be assassin, but quickly recovered and returned to duty. His grace and wit during the dangerous incident caused his popularity to soar.

  Dealing skillfully with Congress, Reagan obtained legislation to stimulate economic growth, curb inflation, increase employment, and strengthen national defense. He embarked upon a course of cutting taxes and Government expenditures, refusing to deviate from it when the strengthening of defense forces led to a large deficit.

  A renewal of national self-confidence by 1984 helped Reagan and Bush win a second term with an unprecedented number of electoral votes. Their victory turned away Democratic challengers Walter F. Mondale and Geraldine Ferraro.

  In 1986 Reagan obtained an overhaul of the income tax code, which eliminated many deductions and exempted millions of people with low incomes. At the end of his administration, the Nation was enjoying its longest recorded period of peacetime prosperity without recession or depression.

  In foreign policy, Reagan sought to achieve "peace through strength." During his two terms he increased defense spending 35 percent, but sought to improve relations with the Soviet Union. In dramatic meetings with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev, he negotiated a treaty that would eliminate intermediate-range nuclear missiles. Reagan declared war against international terrorism, sending American bombers against Libya after evidence came out that Libya was involved in an attack on American soldiers in a West Berlin nightclub.

  By ordering naval escorts in the Persian Gulf, he maintained the free flow of oil during the Iran-Iraq war. In keeping with the Reagan Doctrine, he gave support to anti-Communist insurgencies in Central America, Asia, and Africa.

  Overall, the Reagan years saw a restoration of prosperity, and the goal of peace through strength seemed to be within grasp.
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  27

  kerry sucks

  by kilroy2 in

  1. social
  2. current

  well lets look at the other side.

  kerry said he voted for the war just before he voted against it, and acted like this was a smart statment.

  huh

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• 

  Richie

  SNG:

  This was a prayer from President Roosevelt: (scary? I think not!!!)

  Almighty God,
  Our sons, pride of our Nation,
  This day have set upon a mighty endeavor;
  a struggle to preserve our republic, our religion,
  and our civilization,
  and to set free a suffering humanity...
  
  They fight to end conquest...
  They fight to liberate...
  They yearn but for the end of battle,
  for their return to the haven of home.
  
  Success may not come with rushing speed,
  but we shall return again and again;
  and we know by Thy grace, and the righteousness
  of our cause, our sons will triumph.
  Thy will be done, Almighty God, Amen.--President Franklin Delano Roosevelt

  These are words from President Bush on the importance of authentic faith: (scary?, I think not!!!)

  I think a person's faith helps keep perspective in the midst of noise, pressure, sound--all the stuff that goes on in Washington. A person's faith helps you keep vision. As a matter of fact, helps clear your vision--is a vision. It is one of the prayers I ask is that God's light shines through me as best as possible, no matter how opaque the window.

  I'm in a world of, sometimes a world of fakery, and obfuscation, political back shots, and so I'm very mindful about the proper use of faith in this process. And you can't fake your faith, nor can you use your faith as a shallow attempt to garner votes, otherwise you will receive the ultimate condemnation. And therefore, the best way for faith to operate in somebody is, as I said, to let the light shine as opposed to trying to defend or alter or get my job mixed up with a preacher's job.

  And the only way you can do that is just be yourself, without crossing any lines of politics and religion. Separation of church and state [is] important in America. And by that I mean the people of faith should participate in the state, and there's a difference.

  --George W. Bush in Christianity Today, May 28, 2004
• 
  13

  Speaking of Shunning

  by North Girl in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for those who don't know me i've never been jw but am interesting in understanding.

  anyways, i was wondering when you were a practicing jw and you had to shun people, deep down how did you feel?

  did you feel right in doing so or did you always know that it wasn't right?

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• 

  Richie

  And this is part two:

  (A Sociological Perspective)

  Part Two

  By Gary F. Zeolla

  Part One of this article began comparing sociologist Ronald Enroth?s nine-point definition of a cult to Jehovah?s Witnesses. This second half will continue this comparison.

  4. Legalistic

  Are JWs legalistic? Psychologist Jerry Bergman lists 62 activities that JWs are forbidden to participate in (Bergman, pp. 104-7). He emphasizes that the list above is by no means exhaustive, but only a sample (Bergman, p. 107).

  He comments, "The Governing Body has now, indeed, expressed God's law to JWs in the same form as the Mosaic Law, a list of do's and don'ts, rarely allowing them to use there own judgement . . . . There is much hairsplitting about inconsequential decrees while the unenforceable, weightier matters--love of neighbor, justice and faith--are neglected" (Bergman, p.104).

  How does the WT justify this new law? Their handbook, Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock, is used to train their elders.

  Under the heading "Under 'the Law of Christ' (Gal 6:2)" the handbook states, "Christians are not under the Mosaic law but under "the law of Christ." (Gal 6:2; 1Cor 9:21) Consists of a body of rules for Christian conduct. (Gal 6:16) This "law of Christ" embraces the whole scope of a Christian's life and work . . ."(Pay, p. 144).

  The problem here is the phrase, "the law of Christ" comes from the book of Galatians. It is in this very book that Paul condemns legalism in no uncertain terms (see especially verses 3:1-3, 24, 25; 4:9-11). The "law of Christ" is love. It is this along with the leading of the Spirit that motivates a true Christian to live a life pleasing to God (see Gal 5:22-25; John 13:34, 35; 14:15; 1Cor 13).

  5. Subjective

  Cultic movements place considerable emphasis on the experiential - on feelings and emotions . . . "Follow your feelings" is the message of Rajneesh and many other contemporary gurus (Enroth, p. 21).

  Here is the first point at which JWs do not match up to Enroth's definition exactly. The JWs that I have talked to generally have not appealed to their feelings as proof that their teachings are true as say a Mormon would.

  However, Enroth continues, "Subjectivism is sometimes linked to anti- intellectualism, putting down rational processes and devaluing knowledge and education" (Enroth, p. 21). The problem here relates back to point #1, authoritarianism.

  Bergman states, "Those who continually ask questions that the WT hierarchy objects to, or which are embarrassing to them are often dealt with by disfellowshipping . . . . if one does not agree fully with the WT Society's teaching, one for the most part should keep quiet and try to resolve their questions on their own or leave the congregation" (Bergman, p. 69).

  The WT has even gone so far as to dictate, "Avoid independent thinking . . . questioning the counsel that is provided by God' visible organization ("Watchtower," 1/15/83, p. 22. quoted in "Comments," Winter '89, p. 16).

  However, the Bible teaches Christians to, "be on the alert" (Acts 20:30) and to "test the spirits to see whether they are from God" (1John 4:1). This testing must be done since "many false prophets will arise" (Matt 24:11, see also Matt 7:15, Acts 20:29f; 1 Cor 11:13-15). Also, this testing is to be done using objective standards based on the Bible (Deut 13:1-5; Isa 8:20: 1 John 4:2f).

  I would implore JWs and all Christians to test anything and everything by what is taught in the Scriptures and not interpret the Scriptures in light of what is being taught (see Acts 17:11f).

  6. Persecution-Conscious

  Perceived persecution is one of the hallmarks of virtually all new religious movements. Their literature, public statements and in-house indoctrination all convey the theme that in one form or another their group is being singled out for persecution--by mainstream Christians, the president, parents or the government (Enroth, p. 22).

  We are now back to a perfect description of JW mentality. Their literature states, "Why are Jehovah's Witnesses persecuted and spoken against? . . . Persecution comes because Jehovah's Witnesses put (Jesus') commands ahead of those of any earthly ruler" (Reasoning, p. 207).

  Unfortunately, it is true that JWs have been persecuted. Bergman relates, "Although Witnesses may exaggerate this persecution, it is real and sometimes serious. In some non-western countries they have been hunted down like animals and thousands have been slaughtered . . . Even in the United States, a land founded on the principle of religious freedom, JWs have at times been persecuted" (Bergman, pp. 59, 60).

  Of course, it is wrong for anyone to be physically persecuted for their religious beliefs. However, a couple of points need to be related in this regard.

  First, it is important to consider how the Society uses the persecutions to their advantage. Bergman states, "However, usually the persecution is mental and the Society uses this opposition to "scare" Witnesses into submission to its authority" (Bergman, p. 59).

  Second, often, the witnesses bring the persecution on themselves. Ray Franz is a former member of the Governing Body and nephew of the current president of the WT, Fred Franz. As a member of the board, he was fully acquainted with the persecution JWs were experiencing in Malawi between 1964-75.

  He states:
  Beginning in 1964, JWs in Malawi began to experience persecution and violence on a scale unequaled in modern times . . . . In the first attack, 1,081 Malawi families saw their little homes burned or otherwise demolished, 588 fields of crops destroyed. In the 1967 attacks, Witnesses reported the rapings of more than one thousand of their women, one mother being sexually violated by six different men, her thirteen-year-old daughter by three men . . . . In each wave of violence, beatings, torture and even murder went virtually unchecked by the authorities . . . (Franz, p. 112).

  Such atrocities are to be condemned.

  However, Franz continues:
  What was the issue around which this recurrent storm of violence revolved? It was the refusal of the Witnesses to purchase a party card of the ruling political party . . . . JWs who inquired were told that to buy such a party card would be a violation of their Christian neutrality, a compromise, hence, unfaithfulness to God . . . . The vast majority of Malawaian Witnesses held firm to that position even though at enormous cost to themselves (Franz, p. 112).

  What is especially disturbing about this situation was that the board took a totally different position concerning a similar situation occurring at the same time in Mexico.

  Franz relates:
  Put briefly, in Mexico men of draft age are required to undergo a specified period of military training during a period of one year. Upon registration the registrant receives a certificate or "cartilla" with places for noting down attendance at weekly military instruction classes. It is illegal and punishable for any official to fill in this attendance record if the registrant has not actually attended. But officials can be bribed to do so. According to the Branch Office Committee this is also a common practice among JWs in Mexico (Franz, p. 119).

  Why do the Witnesses in Mexico break the law and bribe officials to get this card? Because the Governing Body told then to do so! Franz includes a copy of a letter the board sent to Mexico on page 121 of his book.

  The letter stated in part:
  If members of the military establishment are willing to accept such an arrangement upon the payment of a fee then that is the responsibility of these representatives of the national organization . . . . If the consciences of certain brothers allow then to enter into such an arrangement for their continued freedom, we have no objection. Of course, if they get into any difficulties over their course of action then they are to shoulder such difficulties themselves, and we could not offer them any assistance (Franz, p. 121).

  It was this type of coldness shown on part of the Governing Body and their double standards that convinced Franz that they were not being led by the Holy Spirit as they claimed and caused him to leave the WT.

  7. Sanction-Oriented

  Cults require conformity to established practices and beliefs and readily exercise sanctions against the wayward. Those who fail to demonstrate the proper allegiance, who raise too many questions, disobey the rules or openly rebel are punished, formally excommunicated or merely asked to leave the group (Enroth, p. 23).

  For the WT, formal excommunication is the means of sanction used. The WT calls it disfellowshipping.

  Bergman explains the harshness of the WT:
  A JW is required to strictly follow all of the rules, however minor, which originate from WT Headquarters in Brooklyn. Love and acceptance are conditional, based upon rigid adherence to dogma established by the Governing Body. Little consideration is given to the necessity to learn from one's own experience . . . . Shortcomings, even honest mistakes, are often interpreted as evidence of deliberate sin and punished accordingly (Bergman, p. 82).

  The same type of punishment is also levied on anyone who chooses to leave the organization on their own accord (Pay, p. 171). What does this punishment of disfellowshipping entail.

  I'll let the WT itself explain, "Members of the Christian congregation should avoid contact and have no spiritual association with disfellowshipped and dissociated persons" (1 Cor 5:11) (Pay, p. 170).

  Further:
  In faithfulness to God, none in the congregation should greet such persons when meeting them in public nor should they welcome them into their homes. Even blood relatives who do not live in the same home with a disfellowshipped relative . . . avoid contact with such disfellowshipped relative just as much as possible . . . . And those who may be members of the same household with a disfellowshipped person cease sharing spiritual fellowship with the unrepentant wrongdoer . . . . there is no reason to listen to a disfellowshiped child or mate if such one attempts to justify himself or endeavors to sway the faithful one to his way of thinking (Organization, pp. 172, 3).

  A couple of examples will demonstrate the heart-wrenching nature of the practice:

  I left the organization in the middle 70's, after twenty years of publishing and pioneering. The wrangling, rivalry, and discontent became too much to ignore . . . . I wrote the letter stating that I did not wish to attend the Kingdom Hall, and I was subsequently disfellowshipped.

  There was no kindness or compassion, in spite of the fact that our daughter had just been killed in a car accident, leaving my husband and I to raise her 4 children. My mother and two brothers live 5 miles away and they were totally silent. Their WT would not allow them to attend the funeral or offer any condolences. At that time I felt terribly alone . . . . I can't tell you how grateful I was to know some "real" people with true Christian attitudes ("Comments," Fall, '88, pp. 8, 9).

  My mother was disfellowshipped years ago for smoking, so before I could be pleasing to Jehovah I had to disown my own mother. I hurt her deeply and myself too! But I was led to believe I was doing the right thing even though my heart kept saying "This just isn't right, how can this be love?" ("Bethel, Vol 8, #5, p. 4).

  . . . the attempts of my parents to change my mind (on the WT's prohibition of blood transfusions) were unsuccessful. They left after this, and have not been in our home since. I was not disfellowshipped until later, however, when it became known that I had attended a talk Bill (her husband who was already disfellowshipped over the same issue) gave on the Witnesses and blood transfusion at a neighborhood church . . . . I still write letters, but they are never answered. When we visit them now, we cannot even get into the house . . . . I asked her, "Mother, what do you want me to do to restore our relationship again?" Her answer could be summarized in one sentence, "Come back to the organization" (Gruss, pp. 99, 100).

  We now once again see the WT's propensity to break up families. They justify such behavior by appeal to various Biblical texts. An evaluation of each of these would require a paper in itself. However, I will take the time to look at one main one used: Matt 18:15-17. Here, Jesus outlines the procedure that should be used in correcting a wayward brother. In verse 17, he states that if the brother refuses to repent, then he should be treated "as a Gentile and a tax-gatherer." The WT seems to believe that this means that one should have no contact with him whatsoever.

  However, how did Jesus Himself treat Gentiles, tax-gatherers and other perceived sinners by the Jewish people? One of the main points of confrontation between Jesus and the Pharisees was that He was, "a friend of tax-gathers and sinners!" (Matt 11:19). He even ate dinner with them! (Matt 9:10).

  When the Pharisees objected, Jesus replied, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician but those who are sick. But go and learn what this means, I desire compassion, and not sacrifice, for I did not come to call the righteous but sinners" (Matt 9:12, 13).

  Of course, Jesus never condoned sin (John 8:11) and neither should we; but compassion, not harshness, is the way to lead one to repentance (Rom 2:4).

  8. Esoteric

  Cultic religion is a religion of secrecy and concealment . . . . This kind of esotericism, Alexander continues, "accepts the appropriateness (and practical necessity) of a deliberately created gap between the picture that is projected to the general public and the inner reality known to initiators (Enroth, pp. 23, 4).

  The WT claims, ". . . the Christian witnesses of Jehovah are the best-oriented, happiest and most contented group of people on the face of the earth. They get along better with each other than do people of any other religion, tribe or social group . . ." ("Awake!" 3/8/60, quoted in Bergman, p. 38).

  They also claim that the love manifested in their congregations is proof that they are the one true religion (You Can, pp. 189, 90).

  However, once one gets inside the organization, a different picture emerges. In his book, The Mental Health of Jehovah?s Witnesses, Bergman documents that the rate of mental illness among JWs is 4-5 times the national average. After documenting this statement in the first three chapters of the book, he attempts to explain why this is the case in the next two chapters.

  He summarizes the first of these chapters as follows:
  Several factors exist which likely influence the high mental illness rate found among the Witnesses. These can be summarized as follows: (1) over-rigidity, especially relative to keeping all the many necessary commandments, some very trivial. (2) Inappropriate responses by the Watchtower Society, the Elders, and other Witnesses to those who are mentally ill and seek their help. They often do more harm than good in their efforts to aid the Witness. (3) Fear that expression of one's concern will result in problems--and the discovery that discussion of honest doubts do cause problems. (4) An over emphasis and concern with demons and demonology in general . . . . (5) In some areas and periods of history, real or feared persecution has taken its toll . . . . (Bergman, p. 62).

  Bergman summarizes the next chapter as follows:

  These factors include (1) a great deal of social pressure which keeps Witnesses at lower economic and educational levels, even if they have the talent to improve their lot in life. (2) Discouragement from involvement in rewarding activities such as music, sports, art or other hobbies and from involvement in rewarding occupational pursuits as well. (3) Social pressure against intellectual activities in general. Especially do many of the more active, better-read, introspective Witnesses experience problems. (4) Lack of support and often discouragement by the WT Society in helping Witnesses satisfy general psychological and emotional needs. (5) The many doctrinal changes, shallow and poorly researched theology, and lack of human concern and compassion by the WT headquarters (Bergman, pp. 80, 81).

  Several of these points have already been discussed in this article already. Others are related to issues that have been raised. I quoted Bergman at length so the reader can see that the issues I have been discussing have practical ramifications. They can cause extreme emotional turmoil in the life of the average JW.

  If the reader doubts Bergman's charge that the rate of mental illness among JWs is higher than the national average or would simply like to pursue the issues he has raised in the quotes above, I would suggest that you order his book. It is available from Witness Inc., P.O. Box 597, Clayton, CA 94517. Write to them for ordering information.

  9. Antisacerdotal

  Cults tend to be organizations comprised of lay people. There are no paid clergy or professional religious functionaries like those in traditional groups (Enroth, p.25).

  The WT states:
  None of the overseers receive a salary for the work that they do in the congregation. It is true that the work they do one behalf of their brothers may require many hours, and some of them may even cut down on the amount of secular work that they do, in order to have more time for the congregation. But they do this out of love for Jehovah and for his "sheep," not with expectation of any material gain (Organization, p. 150).

  This practice does sound rather commendable. However, the lack of a paid clergy prevents the WT from having any true scholars in their organization. Also, the treadmill of having to work secular jobs along with leading a congregation and other responsibilities, keeps the elders from doing any serious Bible study on their own. All they have time to do is read what the WT has printed and present it to the congregation without any serious reflection on it. This of course, relates back to issues already raised at other places in this article.

  Conclusion

  I started this two-part article by asking the question, "Are Jehovah's Witnesses a cult?" I defined the word cult by using a nine point definition by sociologist, Ronald Enroth. Throughout this paper, I have demonstrated that the WT matches up almost perfectly to each point as defined by Enroth. Therefore, the conclusion reached is Jehovah's Witnesses are in fact a cult based on a sociological definition.

  Bibliography (for Parts One and Two):

  The links below are direct links to where the book can be purchased from .
  Bergman, Jerry PhD. The Mental Health of Jehovah's Witness, Clayton, CA: Witness Inc., 1987.
  Bethel Ministries Newsletter. Vol 7, #6, Vol 8, #1, Vol 8, #5.
  Comments from the Friends. Fall 1988, Winter 1989.
  Enroth, Ronald. What is a Cult? Downers Grove, IL: Intervarsity, 1982.
  Franz, Raymond. . Atlanta: Commentary Press, 1983.
  Gruss, Edward.. Philipsburg, NJ, 1974.
  Kittle, Gerhard and Gerhardf Friedrich, ed. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament: Abridged in One Volume. by Geoffrey Bromily. Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1985.
  Organization for Kingdom-Preaching and Disciple Making. New York: Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, 1972.
  Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock. Brooklyn, NY: WBTS, 1981.
  Reasoning from the Scriptures. Brooklyn, NY: WBTS, 1985.
  Reed, David. . Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1986.
  You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth. Brooklyn, NY: WBTS, 1982.
  All Biblical quotes are from The New American Standard Bible. La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation, 1977.

  Are Jehovah's Witnesses a Cult? Copyright © 1999 by Gary F. Zeolla of Darkness to Light ministry (www.dtl.org).
• 
  13

  Speaking of Shunning

  by North Girl in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for those who don't know me i've never been jw but am interesting in understanding.

  anyways, i was wondering when you were a practicing jw and you had to shun people, deep down how did you feel?

  did you feel right in doing so or did you always know that it wasn't right?

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• 

  Richie

  North Girl, this is an interesting study on JW's:

  Are Jehovah's Witnesses a Cult?

  (A Sociological Perspective)

  Part One

  By Gary F. Zeolla

  Are Jehovah's Witnesses a cult? The answer one gives to this question would depend on how one defines the term cult. For the purposes of this two-part article I will be using the nine-point definition Ronald Enroth outlines in his booklet, "What is a Cult?" (p. 31).

  Ronald Enroth is professor of sociology at Westmont College, Santa Barbara. As a sociologist, his definition covers sociological rather than theological points.

  The nine points are:
  1. Authoritarian
  2. Oppositional
  3. Exclusivistic
  4. Legalistic
  5. Subjective
  6. Persecution-Conscious
  7. Sanction-Oriented
  8. Esoteric
  9. Antisacerdotal (Enroth, pp. 17-25).

  Using this definition, Jehovah?s Witnesses will be evaluated as to how closely their organization fits these nine points. Please note: The Jehovah's Witnesses' organization is known as the Watchtower. Throughout this paper, the abbreviations JWs and WT will be used for these names respectively.

  1. Authoritarian

  Enroth comments:
  A crucial dimension of all cultic organizations is authoritarian leadership. There is always a central, charismatic (in the personality sense) leader, who commands total loyalty and allegiance . . . . The leader exercises authority over both doctrine and practice, and his/her interpretations of the "truth" are accepted by members without question (Enroth, pp. 17, 18).

  Do JWs fit this point? Yes and no. No in the sense that the WT is not run by ONE authoritarian leader. It is run by a Governing Body of 11-18 men (Franz, p. 39). However, this group of men does rule the members of the WT in the manner Enroth describes.

  The WT explains the function of the Governing Body:
  God's visible organization today also receives theocratic guidance and direction. At the headquarters? of Jehovah's Witnesses in Brooklyn, New York, there is a Governing Body of older Christian men from various parts of the earth who give the needed oversight to the worldwide activities of God's people. This governing body is made up of members of "the faithful and discreet slave." It serves as spokesman for that faithful "slave" (You Can, p. 195).

  I'll let the WT explain what is meant by "the faithful and discreet slave:"
  The total number of those making up the membership of the "body" of Christ, the spirit-begotten congregation, is stated to be 144,000 persons. These, when resurrected to the heavens, are to reign with Christ as kings and priests (Rev 7:4-8; 14:1-5; 22:4, 6). Evidences show we are in the time of the "harvest," the conclusion of the present system of things. The remaining ones of this number on earth today are therefore few (Matt 13:37-43).

  They are the nucleus around which a much larger number of honest-hearted persons have gathered. These latter ones are called by Jesus the "other sheep." (John 10:16). The Bible also designates them as a "great crowd," having the hope of everlasting life on earth as subjects of the Kingdom (Rev 7:9-17).

  The remaining ones of Christ's spirit-anointed body members on earth constitute the "faithful and discreet slave" of today, and it is this class as foretold at Matthew 24:47, that the Lord Jesus has appointed "over all his belongings" here on earth. So it is vital to work in close association with this "slave" class and to respond in a positive way to the counsel that you receive from it.

  From among the members of that "faithful and discreet slave" class certain ones serve as a visible governing body . . . . So if it is your sincere desire to serve our God and Father, Jehovah, you will want to show appreciation for the "faithful and discreet slave" class that he is using and work wholeheartedly under its direction (Organization, pp. 9, 10, 12).

  I have quoted this passage at length as it brings out several points of WT theology that bears on this discussion. First, it should be noted how obedience to the Governing Body is virtually equated with obedience to God. This idea grows out of the other points raised.

  A central point here is the WT doctrine that only 144,000 go to heaven. It is only these who are born-again and are a part of the body of Christ. All other JWs look forward to living forever in paradise on earth (You Can, pp. 120-26, 163, 4).

  Does the Bible teach that there are these two classes of Christians who have two different hopes? To determine this, one has to check the context and meanings of each of the prooftexts JWs use to demonstrate this idea.

  The first text to look at is Matt 24:45-47.

  Ex-JW, David Reed comments on how the WT interprets this verse.
  Instead of seeing it as an exhortation to each Christian to be a faithful and diligent "slave" for Christ, they believe that their organization represents the faithful and discreet slave, divinely appointed to dispense "spiritual food" to the household of faith. This interpretation gives the Watchtower headquarters tremendous power and authority in the eyes of the average Witness (Reed, p. 58).

  The context of the passage is at the end of the Olivet discourse. Here, Jesus is discussing God's coming judgement. The preceding verses have Christ warning people to be ready at all times since no one knows the time of His coming (24:42). There is nothing in the passage to indicate that Jesus is referring to an organization or class of people.

  Notice in the above extended WT quote, how the word class is added after the phrase "faithful and discreet slave." The word is not in the text itself.

  The next verse to investigate is John 10:16.

  Reed comments:
  They contrast the "other sheep" with the "little flock" mentioned at Luke 12:32 . . . . The "little flock," Witnesses say, are 144,000 spirit anointed believers who make up the body of Christ and will go to heaven, while the "other sheep" include all other believers - those who will receive everlasting life on earth . . . . Besides the vast majority of JWs, the Watchtower Society also throws all pre-Christian believers into the other sheep class with an earthly hope. Thus, witnesses believe that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the prophets, and so on, do not go to heaven (Reed, pp. 78, 9).

  In interpreting the Bible, it is important to look at the historical, cultural background of what is written. A major issue in the earlier church was whether Gentiles would be included in the church along with Jews (see Acts 10 and 15). As a result of the events concerning Cornelius, Peter realized, "God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him" (Acts 10:34f).

  Paul wrote in Galatians 3:20, "There is neither Jew nor Greek . . . for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

  What Jesus is doing in John 10:16 is predicting this oneness that will exist between Jews and Gentiles. In the passage, He specifically states that "they shall become one flock." Hence, the sense of the passage is that Gentiles (i.e. the other sheep) will become one with the faithful Jews (i.e.. the little flock) as the people of God.

  Revelation 7 is the next passage to look at. It is here that we have mention of the 144,000 (the anointed class according to JWs) and the great multitude (the other sheep who will live on earth according to JWs). However, nowhere here or elsewhere are these connections made. In context, the 144,000 are Jews who are sealed by God to be His witnesses during the Great Tribulation period.

  Now some commentators do believe that this passage should not be taken literally and instead is to be taken metaphorically as an indeterminate number of Christians (i.e.. spiritual Israel). They take 144,000 as simply indicating completeness being the product of 12,000 times 12, 12 being a symbolic number referring to completeness.

  Either way, the passage must be taken wholly literally or wholly figuratively. In other words, it is poor exegesis to take the number 144,000 literally yet to spiritualize Jews as an anointed class of Christians. If 144,000 is taken literally then so should Jews. If the number is taken spiritual, then so should Jews.

  As for the great multitude, Rev 19:1 specifically states that they are in heaven. So how can this phrase refer to those who will live forever on earth?

  Finally, Revelation 5:9, 10 teaches all who have been purchased by Christ's blood will "be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth." Christians will reign upon the earth in the sense of having our dominion over the planet restored to us that was lost at the fall (see Gen 1:28; 3:17-19). We will be priests before God in the sense of having direct access to God the Father through Jesus Christ (see 1 Pet 2:9, 10; 1 Tim 2:5).

  Overall, the emphasis in the New Testament is on all believers being the one people of God. The idea of two distinct classes of Christians with two different destinies is totally foreign to the New Testament.

  The important point to note here is the WT interpretation gives the leaders of the WT unquestioned authority over the average JW. The leaders are believed to be the only ones capable of receiving "theocratic guidance."

  2. Oppositional

  Enroth explains what he means by this point, "Their beliefs, practices, and values are counter to those of the dominant culture. They often place themselves in an adversial role vis-a-vis major social institutions."

  The JWs take pride in believing that they are separate from "the world."

  Their own publications state:
  Jehovah's Witnesses are neutral with regard to the political and military affairs of the nations. They do not interfere with what others do as to voting in political elections, running for or campaigning for political offices, joining the military etc. Since true dedicated Christians are "no part of the world," if one pursues a course in violation of his Christian neutrality, he disassociates himself from the neutral Christian congregation (Pay, p. 149).

  Along with separating themselves from governmental institutions, JWs are also required to leave and/or refrain from joining or being involved in any way with any religious organization other than the WT.

  The issue of a Christians relationship to the state is too complex of an issue to be pursued here. Suffice it to say, that any decision reached must take into account Paul's teaching on the subject in Romans 13 and John's attitude expressed in Rev 13. However, given the complexity of the issue, it is difficult to see how the WT can take such a dogmatic stance as to threaten with disfellowshipping, anyone who disagrees with their opinions.

  The JWs attitude with regards to other religions will be dealt with under point 3. Under this point, I will elaborate on one other aspect of this oppositional stance of the WT.

  Enroth continues his description of this point, "Perhaps the social institution most affected by the oppositional stance of the cults is the family. The most outspoken critics of the new religious movements are parents who have experienced the often painful distancing and separation from their children that occur when young people join extremist groups" (Enroth, pp. 18, 19).

  Does the WT break up families? Excerpts from letters to the editor of Bethel Ministries will help answer this question. Bethel Ministries is a Christian organization ministering to JWs and ex-JWs.

  Dear Bethel Ministries Staff:
  I wrote over two years ago asking for materials on witnessing to Jehovah's Witnesses because my husband joined the organization. It has been a long struggle and a difficult one. I have been divorced by my husband with their blessing upon my husband, in spite of the many articles in their publications almost forbidding it . . . . the judge made the decision to okay the divorce my husband asked for, but because of the damaging effects of my husband's behavior on the six year old, the judge ruled that the children are not to be exposed to that religion . . . . the judge . . . told my ex-husband to be good and stop this nonsense of telling the kids they are evil and that they will be destroyed, or else the kids will hate him when they get older. The older son refused to see him all last summer and part of this year because of fear . . . . Even now, the 3 1/2 year old is getting upset because his dad will not allow him to pray to Jesus. He has been trying to refuse to go with his dad (Vol 7, #6, pp. 3, 4).

  A lady who was studying with the JWs was told, "that her sister, Linda, was of the devil and she'd have to quit seeing her." This was because Linda had given her a tape containing the soundtrack of the counter-JWs movie, "Witnesses of Jehovah" (Vol 8, #3, p. 4).

  Dear (friend):
  Saturday we gave our daughter to the Jehovah's Witnesses at the Kingdom Hall in Monroe Falls, Ohio. She married ______ ______ and the organization. She is so beautiful but I'm afraid it's hopeless . . . . We gave her a huge wedding and everything we could do for her, all the love of friends and relatives. We were all there, stuffed in the Hall and "put down" throughout a speech by the elder who married them, and ridiculed at the reception .

  . . . My heart is broken . . . . She let them do this to us, and shunned me, her mother, at her own wedding, at my expense. Her old girlfriends were all crying, sobbing. She told them they couldn't be in her wedding or come to theirs if in a church. I loved them, she threw them out of her life. I've sobbed and sobbed . . . . How can they call themselves Christians? . . . Someday Satan will get his . . . . In the meantime, she will go to eat with the JWs on Easter, Thanksgiving and Christmas . . . . Please pray for me! (Vol 8, #1, pp. 3, 4).

  Why JWs treat "outsiders" in this manner will be better understand after the next point is elaborated.

  3. Exclusivistic

  Related to the oppositional character of cults is their elitism and exclusionism. The group is the only one which possesses the "truth" and therefore to leave the group is to endanger one's salvation. Usually the new "truth" is based on a new revelation given to the group's prophet/ founder/leader.

  A former member of an aberrational Christian group describes the attitude of exclusiveness so typical of the cultic mind set.

  Our leader was critical of all established denominational churches and people who didn't believe as he taught . I became mentally isolated because it was felt that nobody outside of Glory Barn teaching was walking in as much truth as we were and therefore their opinion was not valid. I became cloistered in a world of Bible meetings and spiritual pride. I felt that I had all the truth and that no other people had anything to offer (Enroth, pp. 19, 20).

  I have quoted Enroth's comments at length here because the attitude expressed by the former member of Glory Barn perfectly echoes that of JWs. The WT claims, "Likewise in our day Jesus Christ foretold that there would be only one source of spiritual instruction for God's people" (You Can, p. 193).

  Further:
  Do not conclude that there are different roads, or ways, that you can follow to gain life in God's new system. There is only one. There was just the one ark that survived the Flood, not a number of boats. And there will be only one organization - God's visible organization - that will survive the fast- approaching "great tribulation." It is simply not true that all religions lead to the same goal (Matt 7:21-23; 24:21). You must be part of Jehovah's organization, doing God's will, in order to receive his blessing of everlasting life.--Psalm 133:1-3 (You Can, p. 255).

  Elsewhere they write, "Because Jehovah's Witnesses base all their beliefs, their standards for conduct, and organizational procedures on the Bible, their faith in the Bible itself as God's Word gives them the conviction that what they have is indeed the truth" (Reasoning, pp. 203, 4).

  JWs consider all religious organizations except theirs to be part of "Babylon the Great"(Rev 17, 18, Reasoning, p. 49).

  Their literature states:
  Why can religions that profess to be Christian properly be viewed as a part of Babylon the Great along with those who know nothing of the God of the Bible? . . . Jehovah's chief adversary, Satan the Devil himself, is really being honored by all who do not worship the true God in the manner that he has appointed even though they may claim to be Christian (Reasoning, pp. 52, 3).

  Is any of this true? Does God only work through an organization? Does a person have to join this organization to be saved? Are all professing Christians actually Devil worshippers?

  First, nowhere in the New Testament does it talk about God's organization. The NT talks about the church. The Greek word is ekklesia. "The Greek world uses ekklesia for a popular assembly (cf. Acts 19:32, 39-40)." In the OT and Judaism, "The term ekklesia has the basic sense of 'assembly' (cf. Dt 9:10; 1 Kings. 8:65) . . . ." (Kittle, pp. 399, 400).

  Thus, no idea of an authoritarian organization is in mind. Also, the church is referred to as "the body of Christ" (Rom 12:5 etc.). As such, the church is considered an organism, not an organization.

  Second, nowhere does the Bible teach that one has to join an organization to be saved. Salvation is based on repentance and belief in Jesus Christ (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 16:31, etc.). Also, joining an organization would be a work and the Bible clearly teaches that people are saved by grace, not works (Eph 2:8, 9 Titus 3:5, etc.).

  As for Christians actually being Devil worshippers, the answer to this question would hinge on whether the God of historic Christianity or the God of Jehovah's Witnesses is the one true God. This discussion would be out of the scope of this article. Suffice it to say here that the two Gods are not the same. I would refer the reader to such books as Why You Should Believe in the Trinity, by Robert Bowman Jr., The Watchtower Files and The Heavenly Weatherman, by Duane Magnani and Jehovah of the Watchtower, by Walter Martin along with the books listed in the bibliography for further discussion of this issue.

  In any case, it is this exclusivistic attitude that makes it difficult for a Christian to witness to a JW or to give them any Christian literature.

  My first encounter with a JW was in the winter of 1987,88. I initially met Joseph when he was trying to sell copies of the WT's "Awake" or "Watchtower" magazines to a secretary at a country club I was working at. I interrupted the conversation (something the secretary thanked me for afterwards) and Joseph and I began to talk.

  We agreed to meet later at my house. We met several times over the next few months until I left the Pittsburgh area in March of '88 and moved to Denver to go to seminary.

  It was as a result of these encounters that I became interested in doing the kind of ministry that I am now involved in. What had really struck me about Joseph was that he had been attending a Baptist church before he joined the JWs. Since then, I have spoken to other members of JWs and other non-Christian religious groups that were either raised in or exposed to a Christian church before joining their current religion. It is this fact that has shown me the extreme need of more doctrinal, apologetic teachings in the local church.

  Also, the frustration in talking to Joseph caused me to study what the WT taught as compared to historic Christianity. However, the effects of the above discussed attitude instilled in JWs (that only they have the "truth") made it almost impossible to share this information with him or give him any literature. It seemed impossible to get him to critically analyze anything he had been taught.

  The same attitude was apparent when I visited the local Kingdom Hall about 1/2 mile from my home at his invitation. The meeting consisted of the leader reading a paragraph from a WT book and reading the corresponding question at the bottom of the page. Someone would respond with the expected answer and the procedure would continue. There was no discussion or analyzing of what was written.

  Ex-JW, David Reed explains what is happening:
  They accept whatever the Society tells them because the Society is God's channel of communication, which, in turn, they believe because it is the only religious organization on earth teaching the truth - a conclusion they defend because they accept everything the Society tells them. Although this is circular reasoning, it is the way that Jehovah's Witnesses think (Reed, p. 59).

  However, Reed continues, "The key to breaking that vicious circle is to give the individual some information that will jar his thinking enough to get his mind off the well-worn track that it has learned to function in. This can be a long, slow process. Much prayer and persistence is required. But it can be done (Reed, p. 60).

  David Reed himself was a JW elder for 14 years before he committed his life to Christ. He relates his testimony at the end of his book, Jehovah's Witnesses Answered Verse by Verse. This is a book I highly recommend to anyone wanting to study the WT teachings and to learn how to witness to a Witness.

  In any case, it is the hope that JWs can be reached with the Gospel that enables me to continue to try to minister to them. I spoke to Joseph again around Christmas '89. He's still a Witness, but I'll still pray for him and trust that the Lord will use the seeds I planted to lead him to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ (1Cor 3:6).
• 
  9

  Ack!!! them JWs were at my door

  by Lady Lee in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  talking about lonliness .

  ha!

  i was in a twitchy mood and let them have it - nicely of course and addressed the shunning policy.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richie

  Hi Lee!!!

  I may know the witnesses who knocked on your door (that is, if you're still in St Lazare?), as they are from the same congregation I used to be with.

  I called my daughter yesterday just to tell her that I love her (you see, I haven't spoken to her for a couple of months - I'm disfellowshipped) - afterwards I called her back to want to tell her something that i'd forgotten - nobody answered the phone, so I called a second time and left a message for her. Then later on during the afternoon, I called her again and got her husband (my son in law) on the phone: I asked him if I could speak to my daughter.....he answered: "is this urgent"? - I said "yes" - then he said: "is it a matter of life and death"? - I said; no......then he said: "well you know that you've been calling quite a bit this morning......." Afterwards, I didn't know what to say, but inside of me I was starting to boil with anger and contempt for him........I decided to just hang up rather than starting an argument that can only make matters worse.....

  I will now call Michelle (my daughter) once a month for the rest of my life and continue to pray that one day she and my grandchildren may discover the real truth about the Watchtower and its deception, and that they can approach me with the same love as God loves us.

  Yes, with God nothing is impossible, if we only put real faith in him.

  Hope everything else is okay with you Lee........

  Richie :*)
• 
  91

  How to Be a Republican - A Primer

  by Michael3000 in

  1. social
  2. current

  enjoy .

  1. being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host.

  then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richie

  Copsec,
  

  Thanks for your post - It's encouraging that there are some - like you - who are willing to back up my views in the political arena. True, I am living in Canada (originally from Holland), but I feel much more American than Canadian. I am a staunch Conservative, but I prefer to see the truth as it really is in a fair and balanced manner. I am not really interested in Canadian politics, as I find they are mostly weak and wavering liberals, who will sway in almost every direction in order to get a vote. much like the American liberals.

  Take care...

  Richie :*)
• 
  91

  How to Be a Republican - A Primer

  by Michael3000 in

  1. social
  2. current

  enjoy .

  1. being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host.

  then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richie

  I know I love you too.........

  Richie :*)
• 
  91

  How to Be a Republican - A Primer

  by Michael3000 in

  1. social
  2. current

  enjoy .

  1. being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host.

  then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richie

  Simon:

  Always refer to Coalition presence there as "The US," "us," "we," and "our" - and ignore the thirty-some other countries involved in the effort.

  Non-US Forces in Iraq - 20 May 2004

  The size and capabilities of the Coalition forces involved in operations in Iraq has been a subject of much debate, confusion, and at times exageration. The Bush Administration and Central Command maintain that that there are roughly 34 countries involved in Coalition efforts, including Albania, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Canada, the Czech Republic, Denmark, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Estonia, Georgia, Honduras, Hungary, Italy, Japan, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldova, Mongolia, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, the Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Singapore, Slovakia, South Korea, Spain, Thailand, Ukraine and the United Kingdom.

  In fact, there are only 33 countries participating in the coalition, as Canada, while listed on the CJTF-7 page has not made a contribution to Operation Iraq Freedom, though it has supported operations in Afghanistan and the Global War on Terrorism.

  On April 27, 2004, Spanish troops from the Plus Ultra II brigade, Spain's main force in Iraq, completed their withdrawal from Iraq. Following this, one news agency reported that only approximately 900 Spanish troops from a special unit tasked with support and logistics would be left in-country to complete the withdrawal. A new contingent of about 150 Spanish troops, composed mailnly of legionnaires, left Spain that same day for Iraq to support the withdrawal. These soldiers were to be out of the country by May 27, 2004. Norway is scheduled to withdraw its 150 soldiers by June 30.

  Agence France Presse reported on May 18, 2004 that all 369 Honduran troops deployed to Iraq will have returned to Honduras by May 21, 2004. The report indicated that some 312 soldiers had already departed Iraq and that some 57 were still in the country awaiting transportation out of Iraq. On May 20, 2004, AFP reported that all of the Honduran troops had left Iraq and were waiting to depart Kuwait on May 21, 2004.

  Countries Supporting Ops in Iraq
  Country	In Iraq	In Theater	Total	Future
  United Kingdom	7,900	3,500	11,000	15,000
  Italy	2,700		2,700
  Poland	2,400		2,400
  Ukraine	1,700		1,700
  Spain	0		--1,300--	0
  Netherlands	1,260		1,260
  Australia	~ 250	~ 600	850	+ 50
  South Korea	465		465	+ 3,000
  Romania	700		700
  Japan	600		1,100
  Bulgaria	454		454
  Denmark	496		496
  Thailand	451		451
  Honduras			0	0
  El Salvador	380		380
  Hungary	300		300
  Dominican Republic			42	0
  Nicaragua			0
  Singapore	200		200	+ 33
  Mongolia	180		180
  Azerbaijan	151		151
  Norway	150		150	0
  Latvia	122		122
  Portugal	128		128
  Lithuania	105		105
  Slovakia	105		105
  Philippines	51		51
  Czech Republic	80		80
  Albania	70		70
  Georgia	70		70
  New Zealand	60		60
  Estonia	55		55
  Kazakhstan	29		29
  Macedonia	28		28
  Moldova	24		24
  TOTAL			26,500

  US CENTCOM - Coalition Ground Forces
  Division	Brigade	Battalion	Personnel	Equipment
  TOTAL			~ 26,300
  		Cuzcatlan Battalion [El Savadoran]	360
  		Peacekeeping Operations BN [Mongolia]	~ 180
  		U/I Hospital [ROK]	~ ???
  		1100th Const. & Eng. Spt. Group [ROK]	~ ???
  		U/I Military Police Unit [Czech]	~ 80
  		Telemark Engineer Sq [Norway]	~ 104
  		U/I Chemical Warfare Co [Slovakia]	~ 105
  		U/I SOF Unit [Macedonia]	~ 28
  		U/I SOF Unit (w/ 101 ABN) [Albania]	~ 70
  		U/I Unit [Latvia]	~ 121
  		U/I Unit [South Korea]	~ 660
  		U/I Unit [Thailand]	~ 460
  	Joint Task Force [Australia]
  	elements, Japanese Self Defense Force		~ 75
  	elements, Danish [DANCON/IRAK]		~ 496
  		U/I Support Unit	~ 61
  		Danish BN [w/Lithuanian soldiers]	446
  Multi-National Division (South-East)
  3 UK Armoured Division			~ 11,000
  		elements, 14 Signal RGT
  		elements, 16 Signal RGT
  		elements, 30 Signal RGT
  		42 Engineer Regiment (Geographic)
  		U/I Engineers
  	20 Armoured BDE
  		Queen's Royal Hussars		Challenger 2
  		1st BN, The Light Infantry		? - Warrior
  		1st BN, The Royal REGT of Wales		? - Warrior
  		2nd BN, The Parachute REGT
  		1st BN, The Royal Scots
  		1st BN, The Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders
  		26 REGT Royal Artillery
  		35 Engineer REGT
  		elements, 9th/12th Royal Lancers			CVR(T)
  		Royal Monmouthshire Royal Engineers (Militia)
  		TF Rake (w/ 35 ENG) [New Zealand]
  	4 General Support REGT, RLC
  		22 Field Hospital
  		elements, 33 Engineer REGT (Explosive Ordnance Disposal)
  		17 Port & Maritime REGT
  		10 Transport REGT, RLC
  		Element, 11 EOD RGT RLC
  		1 REGT, Royal Military Police
  		23 Pioneer REGT, RLC
  		24 REGT, RLC
  		5 General Support Medical REGT, RAMC
  	Sassari BDE [Italy]		~ 3,000
  		U/I NBC Co, 7th NBC BN [Italy]
  		U/I Co, 1st Lagunari Amphib Infantry BN [Italy]
  		Elements, 9th "Col Moschin" Special Forces BN [Italy]
  		U/I Military Police Co [Romania]
  		U/I Military Police Co [Portugal]
  		U/I Co, 7th Signal BN [Italy]
  		18th Mech Infantry BN [Italy]
  		U/I Sq, 19th Armored Cavalry BN [Italy]
  		21st Combat Engineer BN [Italy]
  		6th Transport BN[Italy]
  		811 Infantry BN (Mech) [Romania]
  		U/I BN, 2nd Carabinieri BDE [Italy]	~ 400
  	Netherlands SFIR-3 Contingent		~ 1,500
  		42nd Mechanised Battalion(Composite)		Patria XA-180 APCs
  		Det. 298 Sqn (RNLAF)		3-4 CH-47D
  		Det.300/301 Sqn (RNLAF)		6 NAH-64D
  		Det. 11/14 FA Bty		3 AN/TPQ-32
  		Logistics (POD) Det.
  		Royal Constabulary Dets.
  Multi-National Division (Central South)
  	12 Mechanized BDE [Poland]		~ 2,400
  		10 Mechanized BN [10 ACD Poland]
  		U/I Bulgarian Elements	~ 470
  		811 Infantry BN [ROM]	~ 400
  		U/I Hungarian Elements
  		elements, Grand Duchess Birute Motorised Infantry BN [Lithuania]	~ 45
  		CIMIC BN [Philippines]
  	6th Separate Mechanized BDE [Ukraine]		~ 1,700	60 - BTR-80 11 - BRDM-2
  		61st Separate Mechanized BN		BTR-80
  		62nd Separate Mechanized BN		BTR-80
  		63rd Separate Mechanized BN		BRDMs

  Richie :*)