Posts by TheWonderofYou

26

The Man Who Interviewed the Apostles

by TerryWalstrom in

meet papias.

if you had lived in the time of the living apostles of jesus would you have personally investigated stories about.

or, would you simply read whatever was written instead?.

TheWonderofYou

I think that there is no need to believe that the church intentively destroyed Papias 5 books because something "secret" or "dangerous" for the church was in it. Even Eusebius’ Church history is not completely preserved up to now.

Papias was a very well known and widely respected bishop of the Asia minor of the province Phrygia. Eusebius speaks of Papias as a man most learned in all things, and well acquainted with the Scriptures. In another passage he describes him as of small capacity critizing him for taking all symbols or images in the narratives literally. He was a hearer of John and friend of the bishop Polycarp . Telling or believed in the ciliastic narratives or literal interpretations of 1000 year millenium (or perhaps also literal 144000) was never called by the church a heresy. It at were sureyl common notions in this early church in the region, e.g. the rabbinic idea was that after this age a messiance age would follow here on earth.

But that alone, believing in ciliastic kingdom was no reason to destroy his books or to excommunicate him. The church did never call the faith in the 1000 year millenium a heresy. Perhaps it was thought that the literal interpretaion was gullible but...

Even the catolic church today believes in the ultimatively fulfillment of a "Kingdom of God" on this earth not alone in the afterworld.

Quite the contrary is the case, each word of him that remained is treated as worthful treasure. His comments were cited by Eusebius and others and so they remained. Testimonals about the authenticy of Gospels of Marc or Matthew etc.

_______

Papis did not interview all the apostels as may be the impression by the title of this OP, but was a hearer of John only. The other informations he received from presbyters John and another and many stories abouth the apostels he learned from two daugthers of the apostel Philippus, which lived advanced in years in his city "Hierapolis". Paul had founded the church of Hierapolis. (Eusebius History Ecclesia III. 39.9). The two daughters were called "prophets".

_______

Hierapolis "holy city" in Phrygia was known for the warm spings, which after evaportation left beauftifl landscape, terraces of limescale. Water served for dyeing of wool. Because of weaving and dye mills and textil trade the city was rich.

42

DESTROYING the Governing Body’s claim of authority

by TerryWalstrom in

destroying the governing body’s claim of authority.

begin at the beginning.

what source authority did early christians have?.

TheWonderofYou

What happened with the teaching that in 1919 a new nation was born?
In Cedar point, September 1919 a talk was given about "A new nation is born", by John E. Barr i think.
Further the "golden age" magazin released.

Later 1925 in Watchtower appeard the below cited article abouth the new nation, the 40 years of harvest
had ended 1918.

So in 1919 after Rutherford's and co left the US-jail they became the new nation and accumulated

all power quasi like appointed over the household.

"The nations spent their anger on each other in the great war and until they were exhausted. Following 1918 the devil's organization, financial, political and ecclesiastical, particularly the latter, openly repudiated the Lord and his kingdom; and then and there the wrath of God against the nations began to be expressed. Prom that time forward the battle has gone on in the earth. Prior to that the battle was fought in heaven.

In 1918 and 1919 Zion suffered still more, and
there may yet still be more sufferings to endure.
"Mark how the facts fit the prophecy : "Before she
travailed, she brought forth ; before her pain came, she
was delivered of a man chOd. Who hath heard such a
thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth
be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation
be horn at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she
brought forth her children." (Isaiah 66:7,8) Be it
noted here that from 1874 until 1918 there was little,
if any, persecution of those of Zion ; that beginning with
the Jewish year 1918, to wit, the latter part of 1917
our time, the great suffering came upon the anointed
ones, Zion, Prior to 1914 she was in pain to be
delivered, greatly desiring the kingdom; but the real
travail came later. This is the first great wonder ap-
pearing in heaven,

'Voices symbolize proclamations of truth. Let the
anointed bear witness as to whether or not there hnva
been great truths come to light, and a wider proclama-
tion of truth throughout the earth since 1919 than at
any time previous. The reader is referred to the an-
nual reports of the Society published for 192:S and
1924; and this proclamation of the truth has caused
much thunderings of the enemy. There have been dis-
turbances amongst them; and there has been a great
hail storm falling upon them in the nature of proclamations, indictments etc.

All from Watchtower 1925.

https://archive.org/stream/BirthOfTheNationFromMarch11925Watchtower/1925_March_1_Watchtower_Birth_of_the_Nation_djvu.txt

2

Dead Sea Scrolls

by TheWonderofYou in

jw
friends

pin sharp pictures of the dead sea scrolls.

http://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/home.

TheWonderofYou

Pin sharp pictures of the dead sea scrolls

http://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/home

26

The Man Who Interviewed the Apostles

by TerryWalstrom in

meet papias.

if you had lived in the time of the living apostles of jesus would you have personally investigated stories about.

or, would you simply read whatever was written instead?.

TheWonderofYou

This is link to the fragments of his writings, in english by Paul Schaff

http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/04z/z_0070-0130__Papia_Hierapolitanus__Fragmenta_[Schaff]__EN.pdf.html

http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/04z/z_0070-0130__Papia_Hierapolitanus__Fragmenta_[Schaff]__EN.pdf.htm

42

DESTROYING the Governing Body’s claim of authority

by TerryWalstrom in

destroying the governing body’s claim of authority.

begin at the beginning.

what source authority did early christians have?.

TheWonderofYou

The Russel photo awaiting rapture on Olive tree in Jerusalem was taken on 24.april 1910 in palestine not on 1. Oct. 1914 (end of genitle times) Why they awaited the rapture to take place before 1914? And why would the rapture take place before the 1914 kingdom rule began? This is because of his belief in the pyramid calculations. Sorry if I am confusing someone perhaps we should better read the official explanations about the changes in the watchtower archives.

http://ctr-rlbible.com/?p=3133

42

DESTROYING the Governing Body’s claim of authority

by TerryWalstrom in

destroying the governing body’s claim of authority.

begin at the beginning.

what source authority did early christians have?.

TheWonderofYou

Watchtower president talks about his life story, a story of errors and adjustments, constantly repeating... "we thought".

https://archive.org/details/DecisionMyLifeStoryByFredFranz

42

DESTROYING the Governing Body’s claim of authority

by TerryWalstrom in

destroying the governing body’s claim of authority.

begin at the beginning.

what source authority did early christians have?.

TheWonderofYou

Resurrection was and remains a major topic of interest among Bible Students. In this photo Russell, Joseph Rutherford and others of Watchtower's main heads along with family members are on the Mount Of Olives in Jerusalem. Why? Because they believed Christ was going to return and start resurrecting people there. They wanted to be present for the resurrection and hoped to go on up toheaven. Source: http://masonemerson.freeyellow.com/christianwitnessescom/id134.html

They even travelled to Jerusalem wow, but when exactly did they be in Jerusalem and awaited the rapture on Oct. 1, 1914?

Because on Oct 1.1914 Ch.T. Russel was supposedly in Bethel NewYork and "supposedly" said to the bethel family that the Gentile times had ended while the brothers held the morning worship citing the text of a song .."the gentile times have ended", while he came downstairs into the dining room of the bethel, or were they in Israel on this day and invented later a story about this day to look better in the public and not to embarras themselves for that error? When was this photo made? If they did failed in the date of the rapture where they appointed? And was the date correct at all? Aaaah it was only the begin of the Kingdom rule of Jesus in heaven, sorry.

[Source: http://masonemerson.freeyellow.com/christianwitnessescom/id134.html]

Why Russels ideas about the "rapture" were not truth, according to president Franz you can hear in his life story below.

After all the errors of the Russel bibelstudents for the first time the major subject was "loyalty" to the organisation, to an organisation that has failed.
The "kingdom message" and name "JW" was pulled out the box by Rutherford to hold the group together in 1922 like the "millions shall/will never die" propaganda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmKdwk5SVXM

42

DESTROYING the Governing Body’s claim of authority

by TerryWalstrom in

destroying the governing body’s claim of authority.

begin at the beginning.

what source authority did early christians have?.

TheWonderofYou

Interesting: Already Mrs. Russel misinterpreted that the Faithful slave was a kind of "leader" or messenger, her husband, a real man, she misunderstood it as a prophecy, and not as parable what it is. Later it was broadened to mean all members of the class of heavenly hopers,
only in the last year they decided to minimize the prophetic adaption unto the GB-Leadership itself alone again.

Didnt Rutherford say already himself that the proclamations at the conventions since 1922 were fulfillment of prophescies. I should check this.

The origin of the belief that everything has a fulfillment from 187.. onwards until ....the end... but beginning in the 19th century is a "belief" that is shared - was shared - by many other groups at that time. I lately looked at the prophetic timetable that is published by messianc jews. They believe similar things only that everything has fulfilled since the time when Jews are returning to Israel, a belief that was hold by Russel too btw.

42

DESTROYING the Governing Body’s claim of authority

by TerryWalstrom in

destroying the governing body’s claim of authority.

begin at the beginning.

what source authority did early christians have?.

TheWonderofYou

1922 "kingdom" became new brand and mark of russelits.

For example, close to 20,000 Kingdom supporters convened for an international convention in Cedar Point, Ohio, U.S.A., in September 1922. Just imagine their excitement when Brother Rutherford delivered the talk entitled “The Kingdom” and declared: “Behold, the King reigns! You are his publicity agents. Therefore advertise, advertise, advertise, the King and his kingdom.”

So before 1922 the kingdom message, how was it understood, did it play a role at all, and was the earthly hope proclaimed before or after 1922?

1940 F.Rutherford said on the convention in the talk entitled "The End" that "since 1922 Jehovahs conventant people has been busy enaged in the work of getting known the kingdom of god. In this they had much tribulatio and far greater joy....prophesies..evidence for the fact that armagedon is very near..."

52

Is shunning unscriptual?

by MrTheocratic in

international version 1 cor 5:11. but now i am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler.

do not even eat with such people.. if shunning is wrong.

.how does one explain this scripture?.

TheWonderofYou

If shunning assumes the shape of a "ritual punishment by not talking/phoning" would be very sad. The nasty "shunning" behaviour of the congregation should not be a reason for someones falling into yet deeper problems, suicide, drugs, atheism,...

Besides the considered aspect "purity" of the congregation, the personal development and future of a person is a indispensable and obvioulsy most important part of the whole matter concerning responsibilt especially for jounger members. Therefore a gradual form of disciplination withouth causing someone to stumble would be "a biblical" answer in a "community of disciples" like exclusion from taking bread or wine or.. But why everything has to be public announced at all arent there other measures that are more senseful.

Matthew prompts (Ch.18) the whole congregation to think about the consequences if one of the "little ones" or "wandering sheeps" would perish by overhastly reaction or judgments of "unmercifal servants", what is a warning not only for "elders", but for each "sister" and "brothers".

"It would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea".

Who is really appropriate to bring someone back on the "right" track? Only few women and men are really appropriate to do such an important job in a "community".