Jehovah God is Real

by TakeOffTheCrown in

there are many on this site that do not believe that jehovah truly exists; that he is not a real being.

but, he is as real as next breath you draw into your nostrils.. some of you say that there is no evidence that he exists.

yet, none of you can prove that he does not exits.. cofty, (you come to mind), i appreciate that you have stated, without reservation, that you do not believe that god exists.. yet, you cannot prove it.. hope in jehovah..

TheWonderofYou

Heinrich Heine "Belsazar" about jehovahs "mene Tekel"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wW2SLkf89g

138

Jehovah God is Real

by TakeOffTheCrown in

there are many on this site that do not believe that jehovah truly exists; that he is not a real being.

but, he is as real as next breath you draw into your nostrils.. some of you say that there is no evidence that he exists.

yet, none of you can prove that he does not exits.. cofty, (you come to mind), i appreciate that you have stated, without reservation, that you do not believe that god exists.. yet, you cannot prove it.. hope in jehovah..

TheWonderofYou

Somebody should paint a sequel of Asterix and Obelix about the Question "Jehovah is invisible present".

Or we could listen to Friedrich Gottlieb Klopstocks "Die Allgegenwart Gottes" - "The Omnipresence of God"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkT2NwJ0eiw

Wenige nur, ach, wenige sind,
Deren Aug in der Schöpfung
Den, der geschaffen har, sieht!
Wenige, deren Ohr
In dem mächtigen Rauschen des Sturmwinds,
Im Donner, der rollt,
Oder im lispelnden Bache,
Den Unerschaffnen hört!
Wenige Herzen erfüllt
Mit Ehrfurcht und Schauer
Gottes Allgegenwart.

Lass mich, im Heiligtume,
Dich, Allgegenwärtiger!
Stets suchen, und finden!
Und wenn er mir entflieht,
dieser himmlische Gedanke,
lass mich ihn tiefanbetend
Aus den Chören der Seraphim
Ihn mit lauten Tränen der freude
Herunter rufen,
Damit ich, dich zu schaun,
Mich bereite, mich weihe,
Dich zu schaun!
Im Allerheiligsten!

138

Jehovah God is Real

by TakeOffTheCrown in

there are many on this site that do not believe that jehovah truly exists; that he is not a real being.

but, he is as real as next breath you draw into your nostrils.. some of you say that there is no evidence that he exists.

yet, none of you can prove that he does not exits.. cofty, (you come to mind), i appreciate that you have stated, without reservation, that you do not believe that god exists.. yet, you cannot prove it.. hope in jehovah..

TheWonderofYou

Googling for "Kiergegaaard" I found this site "Science". What is this about. Is this about God? Did jehovah write this wikiquotes?

If jehovah had really something to say then this would be the occassion to say it now and to post a comment here and now. If he agrees or not.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Science

We have become aware of the massive information contained in the genes. There is no known way to science how that information can arise spontaneously. It requires an intelligence; it cannot arise from chance events. Just mixing letters does not produce words.” He added: “For example, the very complex DNA, RNA, protein replicating system in the cell must have been perfect from the very start. If not, life systems could not exist. The only logical explanation is that this vast quantity of information came from an intelligence.
Maciej Giertych, a noted geneticist from the Institute of Dendrology of the Polish Academy of Sciences, Interviewed in a documentary film. Cited in the book: Is There a Creator Who Cares About You? published by Jehovah's Witnesses.

___

This is a poem by Klopstock - in this poem "Jehova" was reality in the role of the "Weathergod".

http://www.sn.schule.de/~fb-deutsch/downloads/komm-ins-offene.pdf

Klopstock lived 1724-1803, he used "jehovah"

Die Frühlingsfeier

Friedrich Gottlieb Klopstock

(1759/71)

(Vgl. die 1. Fassung)

Nicht in den Ozean der Welten alle
Will ich mich stürzen! schweben nicht,
Wo die ersten Erschaffnen, die Jubelchöre der Söhne des Lichts,
Anbeten, tief anbeten! und in Entzückung vergehn!

Nur um den Tropfen am Eimer,
Um die Erde nur, will ich schweben, und anbeten!
Halleluja! Halleluja! Der Tropfen am Eimer
Rann aus der Hand, des Allmächtigen auch!

Da der Hand des Allmächtigen
Die größeren Erden entquollen!
Die Ströme des Lichts rauschten, und Siebengestirne wurden,
Da entrannest du, Tropfen, der Hand des Allmächtigen!

Da ein Strom des Lichts rauscht', und unsre Sonne wurde!
Ein Wogensturz sich stürzte wie vom Felsen
Der Wolk' herab, und den Orion gürtete,
Da entrannest du, Tropfen, der Hand des Allmächtigen!

Wer sind die tausendmal tausend, wer die Myriaden alle,
Welche den Tropfen bewohnen, und bewohnten? und wer bin ich?
Halleluja dem Schaffenden! mehr wie die Erden, die quollen!
Mehr, wie die Siebengestirne, die aus Strahlen zusammenströmten!

Aber du Frühlingswürmchen,
Das grünlichgolden neben mir spielt,
Du lebst; und bist vielleicht
Ach nicht unsterblich!

Ich bin heraus gegangen anzubeten,
Und ich weine? Vergieb, vergieb
Auch diese Thräne dem Endlichen,
O du, der seyn wird!

Du wirst die Zweifel alle mir enthüllen,
O du, der mich durch das dunkle Thal
Des Todes führen wird! Ich lerne dann,
Ob eine Seele das goldene Würmchen hatte.

Bist du nur gebildeter Staub,
Sohn des Mays, so werde denn
Wieder verfliegender Staub,
Oder was sonst der Ewige will!

Ergeuß von neuem du, mein Auge,
Freudenthränen!
Du, meine Harfe,
Preise den Herrn!

Umwunden wieder, mit Palmen
Ist meine Harf' umwunden! ich singe dem Herrn!
Hier steh ich. Rund um mich
Ist Alles Allmacht! und Wunder Alles!

Mit tiefer Ehrfurcht schau ich die Schöpfung an,
Denn Du!
Namenloser, Du!
Schufest sie!

Lüfte, die um mich wehn, und sanfte Kühlung
Auf mein glühendes Angesicht hauchen,
Euch, wunderbare Lüfte,
Sandte der Herr! der Unendliche!

Aber jetzt werden sie still, kaum athmen sie.
Die Morgensonne wird schwül!
Wolken strömen herauf!
Sichtbar ist, der komt, der Ewige!

Nun schweben sie, rauschen sie, wirbeln die Winde!
Wie beugt sich der Wald! wie hebt sich der Strom!
Sichtbar, wie du es Sterblichen seyn kanst,
Ja, das bist du, sichtbar, Unendlicher!

Der Wald neigt sich, der Strom fliehet, und ich
Falle nicht auf mein Angesicht?
Herr! Herr! Gott! barmherzig und gnädig!
Du Naher! erbarme dich meiner!

Zürnest du, Herr,
Weil Nacht dein Gewand ist?
Diese Nacht ist Segen der Erde.
Vater, du zürnest nicht!

Sie komt, Erfrischung auszuschütten,
Über den stärkenden Halm!
Über die herzerfreuende Traube!
Vater, du zürnest nicht!

Alles ist still vor dir, du Naher!
Rings umher ist Alles still!
Auch das Würmchen mit Golde bedeckt, merkt auf!
Ist es vielleicht nicht seelenlos? ist es unsterblich?

Ach, vermöcht' ich dich, Herr, wie ich dürste, zu preisen!
Immer herlicher offenbarest du dich!
Immer dunkler wird die Nacht um dich,
Und voller von Segen!

Seht ihr den Zeugen des Nahen den zückenden Strahl?
Hört ihr Jehova's Donner?
Hört ihr ihn? hört ihr ihn,
Den erschütternden Donner des Herrn?

Herr! Herr! Gott!
Barmherzig, und gnädig!
Angebetet, gepriesen
Sey dein herlicher Name!

Und die Gewitterwinde? sie tragen den Donner!
Wie sie rauschen! wie sie mit lauter Woge den Wald durchströmen!
Und nun schweigen sie. Langsam wandelt
Die schwarze Wolke.

Seht ihr den neuen Zeugen des Nahen, den fliegenden Strahl?
Höret ihr hoch in der Wolke den Donner des Herrn?
Er ruft: Jehova! Jehova!
Und der geschmetterte Wald dampft!

Aber nicht unsre Hütte!
Unser Vater gebot
Seinem Verderber,
Vor unsrer Hütte vorüberzugehn!

Ach, schon rauscht, schon rauscht
Himmel, und Erde vom gnädigen Regen!
Nun ist, wie dürstete sie! die Erd' erquickt,
Und der Himmel der Segensfüll' entlastet!

Siehe, nun komt Jehova nicht mehr im Wetter,
In stillem, sanftem Säuseln
Komt Jehova,
Und unter ihm neigt sich der Bogen des Friedens!

23

Washington Post is carrying the story: Australian Jehovah’s Witnesses protected over a thousand members accused of child abuse, report says

by AndersonsInfo in

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/11/28/australian-jehovahs-witnesses-protected-over-a-thousand-members-accused-of-child-abuse-report-says/.

over the course of about six decades, more than 1,000 members of the jehovah’s witnesses were accused of sexually abusing australian children, according to a new report.

victims were ordered to keep quiet.

TheWonderofYou

I bet you anything that the GB simply waited for the report to have a basis for a legal and scriptural response and react more smoothly to the accusations. They only act if the authority wants it . Perhaps they waited for this loophole to get rid of shunning and 2 witness rule and throw both away. They cant do it themselves, but only if they are urged by authorities.

What if they offered a deal: they could hand out to the Commission the "australian files" about all cases and open it for a "public" police and legal check-through or simple give insight to the computer-database?

Then they could invite the officials to the new Headquarters in America and show them how they "hort" the "abuse cases" withouth reporting them, so claring that and how their JW intelligence works fine.

Then together with the lawyers from the higher authority each case shall receive special attention and time, a detailed agenda will be worked out, what to do and how to recompense victims.

_

7

Readers Digest - Early Text of the New Testament

by TheWonderofYou in

https://books.google.at/books?id=ttnrzxcvggyc&pg=pa162&lpg=pa162&dq=p38+papyrus+michigan&source=bl&ots=iwzmjy4bmu&sig=lpsfa1rd31f4d-olxunuztjhuqg&hl=de&sa=x&ved=0ahukewiek-eh3cvqahvcfhokhzkgdagq6aeistak#v=onepage&q=p38%20papyrus%20michigan&f=false.

i recommend to read the introduction (free preview) at google preview containing stuff about.

- early text and original text p3- papyri and early text- classifying early papyri readings- text quality - earl text a free text?- transmission quality- public and privat copies- textal and scribal culture- book trade in the roman empire.

TheWonderofYou

https://books.google.at/books?id=tTnRzXcVGGYC&pg=PA162&lpg=PA162&dq=P38+papyrus+michigan&source=bl&ots=iwZmJy4BMu&sig=LpSFA1rd31f4d-OlxuNUztJhuqg&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiek-eH3cvQAhVCfhoKHZKGDAgQ6AEISTAK#v=onepage&q=P38%20papyrus%20michigan&f=false

I recommend to read the introduction (free preview) at Google preview containing stuff about

- Early Text and Original Text p3
- Papyri and early text
- Classifying early papyri readings
- Text quality - earl text a free text?
- Transmission quality
- Public and privat copies
- Textal and scribal culture
- Book trade in the roman empire

This preview gives a good overview about the current expert meanings and their "classificiatons"-methods of the early text witnesses.

15

Acts 15,19-21 James on Dietary Law and Blood ( some of the oldest available manuscripts with the passage)

by TheWonderofYou in

the bible manuscript below is a picture of the p45 (gregory aland number) from the 3rd century.

i have cut out the passage of acts 15,19-21 from the greek text.

you can compare the p45 with the greek text from nestle aland.

TheWonderofYou

And here we have a manuscript that is called P.Bodmer XVII or P74 (Papyrus 74) and dates to the 7th century.
One remaining sheet contaings Acts Chapter 15.

There are whole books about the history of this Payprus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_74

Now let us look for our passage...

This cut out starts with the "alla" but and ends with "Moses"

Do we have "strangled" - "Pniktos" here? Yes its that

in the forelast line. "kai pniktou"

http://www.csntm.org/manuscript/View/GA_P74

More about the Bodmer Paypyri

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodmer_Papyri

15

Acts 15,19-21 James on Dietary Law and Blood ( some of the oldest available manuscripts with the passage)

by TheWonderofYou in

the bible manuscript below is a picture of the p45 (gregory aland number) from the 3rd century.

i have cut out the passage of acts 15,19-21 from the greek text.

you can compare the p45 with the greek text from nestle aland.

TheWonderofYou

And now lets jump to the

Codex Vaticanus (325 - 350 A.D.) ,now in Vatican City

Will we again find the "strangled meat"?

its in the forelast and last line namely divided in PNI and Ktou, you will find it.

Moses in the second line is not inserted! What a beautiful hand writing from the 4th century!
It has been preserved until today!

Here you have it:

καὶ -kai τῆς (tes) πορνείας = "porneis" καὶ (τοῦ) πνι (PNIK-

κτοῦ (KTOU) = "suffocated" καὶ τοῦ αἵματος (Blood)

Do your own research

http://www.csntm.org/Manuscript/View/GA_03

Goto the folio with Acts 15.2 and look for this text I have cut out, if you like. Each folio has 3 columns, dont give up, you can zoom in.

Vers 20 of Ch.15 begins in the 3rd column in the sixth line with ONA followed by

The last visible line of this cut out begins with Moses again, you see "Μωϋσῆς but in uncial letters

"alla episteilai autois tou ape" - episteilai .....this is " contain, abstain"

----

More about Vaticanus

What do we know about the Vaticanus manuscript?

A: Vaticanus (325-350 A.D.) is the oldest existing member of the Alexandrian manuscript family. It often is abbreviated as "B" or is called uncial 03.
What has been preserved: Vaticanus has preserved only verses 46:29-50:26 in Genesis, and the rest of the Old Testament except for 2 Kings 2:5-7 and 1-13, and Psalm 105:27-137:6. The missing section in Psalms was added in the 15th century.
Some apocryphal books are in Vaticanus, as are in most Greek Bibles. Vaticanus does not contain 1-4 Maccabees and the Prayer of Manasseh.
The New Testament is all preserved up until Hebrews 9:15. After that some leaves were lost. It has none of 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, and Revelation. Aland references Vaticanus in the book of James, and the New International Greek Testament Commentary on James p.60 says Vaticanus contains the complete book of James.
Physical Appearance: It was written with brown ink on expensive vellum, with each leaf being 27-28 centimeters square. There were three columns per page and 40-44 lines per column. Today it is in Vatican City in the middle of Rome
Scribes and Correctors: One scribe wrote the Old Testament, and another wrote the New Testament. There were two correctors. One corrected the manuscript about 350 A.D. soon after it was written. The other corrector lived in the tenth or eleventh century.
Distinctives of Vaticanus: It generally follows the other manuscripts in the Alexandrian family. It does not have John 7:53-8:11, Luke 22:43-44, and Luke 23:34. It Sinaiticus, it has a blank space for the longer ending of Mark. Vaticanus contains all of Romans (minus 16:24) in the same order as Bibles today.
Jn 16:28 "from/by the Father" is in Vaticanus. Many other manuscripts have "came forth from the Father", including p5 (200-250 A.D.), p22, Sinaiticus, Alexandrinus, Ephraemi Rescriptus, Byzantine Lectionary, Diatessaron (c.170 A.D). See The Origin of the Bible p.181, A General Introduction to the Bible p.391-392, and Manuscripts of the Greek Bible p.74-75 for more info.
http://www.catholicapologetics.info/scripture/vulgate/codex.htm#Vaticanus

15

Acts 15,19-21 James on Dietary Law and Blood ( some of the oldest available manuscripts with the passage)

by TheWonderofYou in

the bible manuscript below is a picture of the p45 (gregory aland number) from the 3rd century.

i have cut out the passage of acts 15,19-21 from the greek text.

you can compare the p45 with the greek text from nestle aland.

TheWonderofYou

Investigating the Codex Alexandrinus (400-450 A.D.)

Sifting the oldest existing codices and paypri for appearances of the „strangled meat“ and „blood“ ban I came accross the Codex Alexandrinus.

As in the original text is no reference point where to find Act 15,20 in the folios I had to recognize the uncial letters myself and so I sifted the folios for known letters of „aimatos“ or ~~„porno“~~ sorry „porneis“ but lately I found the passage somehow accidently over the word „Moses“, which is the first word of vers 21 and as in Alexandrinus there was already a vers arrangement, the first word of the vers is a little bit inserted from the column. And so i found it Wow! (Okay I also estimated that Ch. 15 has to be in the middle of the folios 56-76 and so I came to folio 66 …and there it was. „Moses indeed from generation…“!).

Here you see the big M that catched my eyes.

Codex Alexandrinus (about 450 A.D. now in Princeton)

Comparision to Codex Bezae (about 400 A.D., now in Cambridge) (here also Moses inserted)

Can you see the word „Moses"?

And here it is in the line before the big „Moses“

Line 1 ἀλλὰ ἐπιστεῖλαι αὐτοῖς τοῦ ἀπέ-
alla episteilai autois tou ape-
but to write them to ab-
Line 2 χεσθαι τῶν ἀλισγημάτων
Chesthai ton alisgematon
..stain from pollutions
Line 3 τῶν εἰδώλων καὶ τῆς πορνείας
ton eidiolon kai tes porneias
of the idols and of the immorality
Line 4 καὶ τοῦ πνικτοῦ καὶ τοῦ αἵματος.
kai tou pniktou kai tou haimatos
and that which is strangled and from blood

Again we have in the Alexandrinus „pniktou“ - „suffocated“ or „strangled“ in the text from the 5th century !

Here a more distant view of folio 66 with a numer „92“ at the head. (430 A.D. Alexandria)

How to find for yourself?

„Royal MS 1 D V-VIII“ (also Gregory-Aland no. A or 02, Soden δ 4) is the name of the Codex Alexandrinus at Princeton University library.

http://library.princeton.edu/byzantine/manuscripts/19478#

How can you find the folio yourself?

>> if you look inside Alexandrinus you can adjust to folio style and Scroll down to folio 66 on the right side.

Colophon

Cambing throught the text I was also coming to this wonderful colophon at folio 76. The last page of Acts. (folio 56-76) You can find it on folio 76

What do the letters mean?: Does the chalice symbolize the communion cup?

'Πράξεις τῶν ἁγίων ἀποστόλων'.
Praxeis (practice)
ton (of the)
agion (holy)
apostolon (apostels)
"Acts of the Apostels" ....the words are splitted.

Note that here you are reading in an original bible codex that dates back to the years 400-450 AD and that was written by a copyist with brown ink! In former times onyl bible scholars in monastaries or the university/church libraries could do!

http://library.princeton.edu/byzantine/manuscripts/19478#

More about Alexandrinus

What do we know about the Alexandrinus manuscript?
A: Alexandrinus (450 A.D.) It often is abbreviated as "A" or called uncial 02.
What has been preserved: It has preserved all of Genesis except for Genesis 14:14-17; 15:1-5, 16-19; 16:6-9, which are mutilated. The Twelve Minor Prophets are directly before Isaiah. It contains the rest of the Old Testament except for 1 Samuel 12:17-14:9 and Psalms 49:20-79:11.
The Apocryphal books in Alexandrinus are 3 and 4 Maccabees.
In the New Testament, Alexandrinus contains Matthew 25:7 to the end, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, and Paul's letters. John 6:50-8:52 and 2 Corinthians 4:13-12:6 are missing though. Alexandrinus contains all of Romans (minus 16:24) in the order of 1:1-14:23; 16:25-27; 15:1-16:23; 16:25-27 (The Wycliffe Exegetical Commentary : Romans 1-8 p.6) It contains 16:25-27 twice. It contains all of James.
Other books at the end of the manuscript were written the Psalms of Solomon, and 1 and 2 Clement, with some parts missing.
Physical appearance: The leaves measure 32.1 cm by 26.4 cm. It was written on expensive vellum with brown ink. There are two columns per page, and 46-52 lines per column. There are no spaces between the words, and Old Testament quotes are indicated. It currently is in London, UK.
Scribes and correctors: Two to five scribes wrote this manuscript, and there were numerous corrections, by both the scribe who originally wrote the words and others hands. The corrected version is very similar to the Textus Receptus.
Distinctives of Alexandrinus: Some would say it appears as an Alexandrian Manuscript with Byzantine influence. Others would say it represents an alleged third family, the Western family, which is a combination of the Alexandrian and Byzantine texts. It does not have Luke 22:43f, and is missing John 7:53-8:11.
2 Tim 2:22 Alexandrinus has "loving" while other manuscripts have "calling"
Phm 12, Alexandrinus and corrected Sinaiticus almost stand alone in saying "whom I sent back yours" vs. other manuscripts who say "whom I sent back to you" or similar.
Phm 25 Alexandrinus does not have "amen" at the end. Sinaiticus, the Byzantine Lectionary, and p87 c.125 A.D. have "amen" at the end. See A General Introduction to the Bible p.394-395 and Manuscripts of the Greek Bible p.86 (photograph p.87) for more info.

Are Christians allowed to eat blood sausages - Is the Apostolic Council still binding?

by TheWonderofYou in

„the conclusion of the jehovah's witnesses that the apostle council also forbids medical blood transfer, borders on the absurdity.“.

to one who has not yet dealt with the question, it may seem almost ridiculous.

but in acts chapter 15, 19-21 and 29, as well as in chapter 21, 25 is written that the apostles, under the guidance of the holy spirit, have imposed on the christians who came from the gentile nations to abstain from idols, from blood, from strangled animals and fornication.

TheWonderofYou

„The conclusion of the Jehovah's Witnesses that the Apostle Council also forbids medical blood transfer, borders on the absurdity.“

To one who has not yet dealt with the question, it may seem almost ridiculous. But in Acts Chapter 15, 19-21 and 29, as well as in Chapter 21, 25 is written that the apostles, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, have imposed on the Christians who came from the Gentile nations to abstain from idols, from blood, from strangled animals and fornication. How is the decision of the Apostolic Council to understand?

The Orthodox churches of the East have adopted the text of most New Testament Greek manuscripts [1], to which later also Luther joined: "That you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication."

For the Church of the West until the Reformation and for the Roman Catholic Church until today, the Vulgata is the the binding text of the Bible, which was translated from Greek to Latin approx. 380 - 400 AD. by Hieronymus. He took the few Greek manuscripts as basis, which lack the "suffocated“ and therefore corresponding to that it is also lacking in the dogmatized Latin Vulgate.(Note: The Roman Catholic translation of the Bible into the respective local languages have to orient themselves at the Vulgata, although the Roman-Catholic so-called German ecomenical translation "Einheitsübersetzung" in Acts 15, 29 has also the "suffocated".)

The followers of the Greek minority texts and of the Vulgata argue that "suffocated" in the majority of Greek handwritings is only a later commenting and misleading addition.

Thus it is only necessary to clarify what is meant by "abstaining from blood". It was and is interpreted that it meant not to shed human blood. Others interpret that it means not to enter into a marriage with close blood relatives ("incest"), analogue to the Old Testament marriage prohibitions (Deuteronomy 18), to which is also referred to later by Paul (1 Cor. 5, 1-5). If appropriate, the exhortations to abstain from blood and fornication would be in the close mutual commentarial context.

If, however, one proceeds from the majority of the Greek manuscripts, which speak of the "containment of blood and suffocated," then those both are closely connected. Then the apostolic council presumably oriented itself to Leviticus 17:11-15. James expressly refers to Moses (Acts 15, 19-21). After that, it was not only forbidden to Israel to eat blood and meat of suffocated animals but also to the strangers who lived in the midst of the people of Israel.

According to the Old Testament, blood is the bearer of life, nay, life itself, and to dispose of it is the sole concern of God (Genesis 9: 4; Leviticus 17:11). And the Son of God does this when he gives us his blood to drink in the Lord's Supper. There he gives us his life and gifts us new eternal life (Jn 6, 53ff.).

If one thus proceeds from the basis of the text, "abstain from blood and suffocated food," this is to be understood as a prohibition to enjoy fresh blood and flesh with fresh blood in it. (Note: The use of fresh blood can lead to a "bloodlust", comparable to the intoxication of drugs.)

The term "suffocated food" refers to meat of animals which have not been slaughtered with the knife and have not been bled, but have perished otherwise with its blood in the body (Catch with the snare or carcase, cf Genesis 17, 3.17. In certain pagan religions the sacrificed animals were not slaughtered, but strangled.)

An animal slaughtered with the knife, whose meat naturally loses almost all blood, is thus not a "suffocated food"! Even with a stabbing of the heart or today's usual slaughter with a bolt shot device, the killed animal still exsanguinated.

The legal provision of the Jewish Talmud (written from the 2nd to the 8th century AD), according to which the prohibition of eating no suffocated food is only followed when the animal is "slaughtered properly kosher" (throat section and the still living animal bleeds to death), is a typical exaggeration of the Pharisaic-rabbinical theology, which had already begun in the time of Jesus (cf Mt 23:23).

However, in this view the processing of the blood discharged after the slaughter to sausage remains problematic. The old church and the Roman Catholic church have banned this until the 12th century, the Eastern Orthodox churches to this day.

Meaning of the apostolic council for the first greek gentile christian communities namely for that of Antioch

After this inventory, the question of what the decision of the apostolic council at that time meant for the first gentile-christian communities, namely that of Antioch, is to be asked. The apostolic council did not follow the temptation of Judaist circles that the Gentile Christians must submit themselves entirely to the Jewish law, to be circumcised, and to comply with Jewish purity and dietary laws. With Christ this is all fulfilled and has an end (Rom 10: 4, Galatians 5, 1).

The Jewish Christians, however, had probably still aquired the behaviour to feel revulsion, repugnance, and disgust at eating of blood. Presumably, they did not wan to touch the disposal of God over any blood as the bearer of life.

Therefore the Gentile Christians will in regard and love (to the Jewish), to give no cause for an offence of conscience and annoyance, and for the sake of fellowship, forgo drinking and eating blood and bloody flesh. There should be a full, undisturbed table-fellowship between Jewish and Gentile Christians. Not the food, but reprehensible behaviors lead to the failure of the table-fellowship (1 Cor. 5, 11).

The Apostle Paul goes one step further personally and writes: "But make sure that this liberty of yours in no way becomes a stumbling block to the weak.g Therefore, if food causes my brother to sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I may not cause my brother to sin."(1 Cor. 8: 9.13 NABRE). (http://www.usccb.org/bible/1cor/8:1 The NABRE has a good comment for this passage.)

The decision of the apostolic council was, therefore, an outflow of consideration and the law of love. It was also properly understood. It is said, when the church of Antioch received the letter with the decision of the Apostles, they were glad about the encouragement (Acts 15, 30.31). (Emphasis mine)

The behavioral directives may therefore not have been regarded as a burden, especially with regard to the demands of the Judaists that the Gentile Christians should submit themselves to the whole Jewish law with circumcision, and to all provisions of food and purity.

Only a small renunciation was required by the Gentile Christians, while the Jewish Christians had to overcome a far higher hurdle with the tolerance of meat-eating of unclean animals, for example, of pork (compare Acts 10, 10 ff.) Emphasis mine)

As mentioned the demand was to forgo the eating of blood and of suffocated meat of animals, an outlet of the love-offer for the sake of fellowship, and not an old or a renewed dietary law. Jesus clearly said that what does defile man is not what comes in the mouth, but what comes out (Matthew 15:11). And the Apostle Paul constantly struggled for liberty in Christ and against all Judaistic-legal demands, especially with the letters to the Romans and the Galatians.

On the subject, he writes, (Col. 2:16)- " Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink" (1 Cor. 8: 8). "Now food will not bring us closer to God.“

It also speaks for itself that the prohibition to eat blood and bloody flesh is mentioned in the whole New Testament only once. One of the first catechism-like ordinances, the Diadache, written in the middle to the end of the first century, mentions the prohibition of idolatry, but no longer addresses the question of the consumption of blood and suffocated. The directive of the apostolic council was due to the unique historical situation.

This raises the question whether the directive of the Apostolic Council is still binding for us today. We are no longer in the situation of the tensions and emotions between newly-converted Gentile Christians and newly-converted Jewish Christians, just as the question of the idolatry does not concern us directly.

The conception that the prohibition of the consumption of blood and suffocated animals was valid only in terms of time and situation, are shared by the various confessional churches (the Eastern Orthodox Churches, limited). The conclusion of the Jehovah's Witnesses that the Apostle Council also forbids medical blood transfer, borders on the absurd.

The Confessions of the Evangelical-Lutheran Church in the Augsburg Confession (CA) and their Apology address very much to the question of biblical and new Roman-church-lawful ceremonial and dietary laws. In Art. 28 CA is stated that (straightened): "The apostles have commanded that one should abstain from the blood and from the suffocated meat. But who's holding it now? But still they who do not keep it do not sin; For the apostles did not want to complain the consciences with such servitude, but have forbidden it for a time for the sake of annoyance. It is necessary to exercise caution with regard to this statute, and to observe the principal part of the Christian doctrine, which is not abolished by this apostolic decree. "

See also the subject: Has God forbidden certain foods?

Detlef Lohde

[1] Majority text is the texttradition that leans on the majority of the manuscripts, this tradition is testified mostly by greek manuscript from the bycantine empire, abbr. „Byz“ , [footnote mine] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_text-type {\displaystyle {\mathfrak {M}}}short

6

Are christians allowed to eat blood sausages?

by TheWonderofYou in

this text is an edited google translation by me of a german article by detlef löhde.

the article has also a lutheran aspect in it.

(the bible quotations are taken in english from the nabre, while in the german original the luther-bible is used).

TheWonderofYou

This text is an edited google translation by me of a german article by Detlef Löhde. The article has also a lutheran aspect in it. (the bible quotations are taken in English from the NABRE, while in the german original the Luther-bible is used)

„The conclusion of the Jehovah's Witnesses that the Apostle Council also forbids medical blood transfer, borders on the absurdity.“

Are christians allowed to eat blood sausages? Are christians only allowed to eat like Jews slaughtered animals? Meaning of the Apostolic Council?

To one who has not yet dealt with the question, it may seem almost ridiculous. But in Acts Chapter 15, 19-21 and 29, as well as in Chapter 21, 25 is written that the apostles, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, have imposed on the Christians who came from the Gentile nations to abstain from idols, from blood, from strangled animals and fornication. How is the decision of the Apostolic Council to understand?

Inventory

The Orthodox churches of the East have adopted the text of most New Testament Greek manuscripts[1], to which later also Luther joined: "That you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication."