Posts by TheWonderofYou

27

A chapter on The Trinity

by Doug Mason in

as i work my way through the history of judaeo-christian salvation, i have drafted a chapter on the trinity and early christology.

as before, i am seeking corrections, advice, and suggestions.. the chapter is available at: http://www.jwstudies.com/formative_christianity_s_christological_combats.pdf.

while preparing this chapter, i realised that i am not looking at the "evolution" of soteriology.

How much effort and deepness it takes today to understand this one matter, the theological meaning of Jesus and Jesus death. For us all the ancient metaphors like ...jesus the scapegoat, Jesus the lamb, jesus blood safed us, the sprinkling of blood at the altar, the wine is the blood and the bread is the body of Jesus at the Lords evening meal, the slaughtered pessach lambs who were eaten at the evening meal at the pessach festival. e.g. remain actually in a fog unless we have one how interpretes the terms for our century and our philosophy.

We have little understanding of greek and judeo-christian philosophy at all and especially what the terms that are used in the new testament like "mercy seat", "blood" for as magical cleansing tool in a religious system of purity and how Jesus blood is used as metaphor to describe how christians are cleansed.

Likewise who understands today how the thinkers in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th century understood why Jesus was the LORD or the demarcation between triniy and subordination. If we think of how confusing it is for us today to interprete the "Understanding" of Charles Taze Russel or Rutherford or Franz exactly, we would often err and mix up the teachings, and now think how difficult to interprete the sayings of people who lived in the 3rd century e.g. The trinity is formulated in terms and language of people who lived in the antique, to consider!

Therefore especially for this deepness and broadness I have so much respect for your hard work and I appreciated your work because I am also ongoing searching this subjects.

For me it somehow ranges in order with works of modern theologians who interprete Jeus death not as payment to the father (the payment or legal aspect could be seen only a metaphor, although a sacrifice was always a financial burden).

Your work includes so many details that are helpful for former and actual JW to overthink their understandings how a sacrifical death of Jesus could be seen more as act of love than as payment, especially considering your arguments about Paul who used practically any metaphor to support/explain in the judea-christian language the notion that Jesus was the "prodigy".

Paraphrases like "The blood of Jesus safes us"....are hardly to explain today, does it mean the liquid, the life-principle, or does shedded blood stand for his devotion, which is respresented by blood, the whole life-work of Jesus.. and who are we to interprete that?

20

Missed 1914 by that Much

by truth_b_known in

do you remember the mars climate orbiter?

it was a probe launched by nasa designed to gather data on mars.

the problem is that the probe never reached mars.

TheWonderofYou

Millers original "1843 is the end" chart

http://www.bible.ca/pre-miller-1843-ellen-white.gif

Millers "Kingdom of God in 1843" was certainly the closest relative of 1914

Miller converted from Deism in 1816. Excited, he began to "search the Scriptures" for the truth. After two years he was convinced he understood them—especially Daniel 8:14: "Unto 2,300 days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed." The cleansing of the sanctuary, Miller believed, could only mean the purging of the earth by fire—in short, the end of the world.
By interpreting these prophetic days as years and beginning from the date of the prophecy (placed by James Ussher at 457 B.C.), Miller concluded that the end of the 2,300 "days" would fall in 1843: "I was thus brought to the solemn conclusion that in about 25 years from that time all the affairs of our present state would be wound up

How bishop Ushher came to 4004 BCE as age of the world:

https://answersingenesis.org/bible-timeline/the-world-born-in-4004-bc/

20

Missed 1914 by that Much

by truth_b_known in

do you remember the mars climate orbiter?

it was a probe launched by nasa designed to gather data on mars.

the problem is that the probe never reached mars.

TheWonderofYou

Dear friends,

who was the first in that "lastdays"-rallye? Who at first interpreted the numbers/days from Daniel or Revelation as proof that "bible prophesy" is "fullfilling today"? Were it rabbinic kabbalists, christian darkmiddleage cults - albigensisans, waldensians e.g. or lutherian protestants or a catolic monch, who was bored and awaited the divine judgement day? Who copied whose ideas? Who came up with that notion: one day = one year interpretation, that this could reach into our time? I ve read it already in another thread or a book, dont remember though. How influenced Miller 1843 in the latest history? Perhaps it was in " The Gentile Times Reconsidered: Chronology and Christ's Return by Carl Olof Jonson ?

43

How long has it been since you have seen your family?

by Christian Gutierrez in

jw
friends

howdy guys!

so how long has it been since you have seen your jw family or friends?

or do you even care to have them in your life anymore?

TheWonderofYou

My witness uncle, who influenced me once much to get into the tttrruuth, called me last time 1,5 year ago to meet me somewhere to hand me a surprise, I guess it might have been the latest "return to J" booklet, cause it was new back then. Once upon a time we kissed each other when we met. We didnt meet however because I was busy. Since then no contact anymore. He even hasnt seen my child who is already 17 years old, because he remains loyal. I I hadnt once visited him at home 13 years ago, I wouldnt have seen him for 13 years.

26

Disfellowshipped people are dead people?

by snugglebunny in

jw
friends

skimming though my iphone earlier today i came across a fb post - which i now can't find!.

basically it was a claim that a gb member had stated that associating with a disfellowshipped person was akin to sleeping next to a corpse.. so obviously i'm curious as to whether anyone else has come across this..

TheWonderofYou

I must appear like a grinsing, happy and obtrusive zombie who fortunately is not sitting in the kingdom hall yet on the dangerous last row waiting to get absolution or endager somebody the rest of the last days.

26

Disfellowshipped people are dead people?

by snugglebunny in

jw
friends

skimming though my iphone earlier today i came across a fb post - which i now can't find!.

basically it was a claim that a gb member had stated that associating with a disfellowshipped person was akin to sleeping next to a corpse.. so obviously i'm curious as to whether anyone else has come across this..

TheWonderofYou

stillin - and what if the df'ed was on the way of repentance?

26

Disfellowshipped people are dead people?

by snugglebunny in

jw
friends

skimming though my iphone earlier today i came across a fb post - which i now can't find!.

basically it was a claim that a gb member had stated that associating with a disfellowshipped person was akin to sleeping next to a corpse.. so obviously i'm curious as to whether anyone else has come across this..

TheWonderofYou

This thread is distorting the picture of gods holy organisation in the public and especially distorting the image of the governing body. Never from the mouth of such lovely men! such a phrase no! I

Anyhow, I am not dead, because in my case at least, I am not allowing it. If I would meet any of the GB It would be hard for them not to greet me. Because I am a very pro-active person. I can say, pratically any of JW i meet in the supermarket or on a street I am greeting and saying hello. Also with a little bit irony in my mind. And the most I meet greet also. They know that I am a very social person. Some invite me to the hall, some say only a short hello, and with may I ve small talks, in the street, in the supermarkets in my town. I am living inmidst of shops really here. They know that I was a "pattern-witness" when I was young and I was only DFshpped because I married a woman from an other religion. The content of the small talk depends of course of whom i meet, a former presiding overseer or another elder, or the overseer who was responsible for visiting disfellowshipped, or "only" former mates or friends. Of course some petulant would never say any word or greet.

They are treating me like a weak one, very long inactive one, disappeared from the congregation person but not completly like a DFsd, i have the feeling, one even winking and smiling.

I am not allowing them at least to treat me as dead. Its because I meet some often, I am not looking away, am not passing by without greeting.

23

So, any comments from the Memorial?

by NewYork44M in

jw
friends

perhaps i missed the comments, but i did not see a lot of comments from, or about, the memorial.

it happened last night, right?.

in years past the jwn board was hot with comments.

TheWonderofYou

Little except that in our staircase some invitiations for the memorial were thrown away and lounged around on the floor next to the entrance door, The memorial is this time exploited as possiblity to give a witness when one of the congregations invited to a communalhall of a village in the neighbourhood.

51

RUSSIA: (7 April 2017) Day 3 - Jehovah's Witnesses hearing under way

by Drearyweather in

jw
friends

in moscow, a soft rain drizzles.

along the facade of the supreme court stretched a large queue of those who came to the process as listeners.

a large bus is parked at the courthouse on povarskaya street, full of obviously bored police officers.

TheWonderofYou

Is now the hearing also transmitted publicly or only recorded?

51

To those taking a stand and not attending the Memorial tonight

by doubtfull1799 in

i salute you.

many of you, like me, are probably under enormous emotional pressure, whether from a lingering false sense of guilt from your indoctrination, whether from "invitations," and assumptions that you'll naturally be coming, or whether from outright emotional blackmail, even begging and pleading.

i am thinking of you whoever you are, all of you, even though i don't know you in person.

TheWonderofYou

Who Will Bring Relief?
Paul explains that Christ’s spirit-anointed disciples have a special role in undoing the harm caused by Adamic sin. Jehovah “chose us in union with [Christ],” says Paul, to rule with Jesus in his heavenly Kingdom. Explaining this further, Paul says that Jehovah “foreordained us to the adoption through Jesus Christ as sons to himself.” (Ephesians 1:4, 5) Of course, Jehovah did not choose, or foreordain, them as individuals. He did, however, foreordain a class of faithful and devoted people who would share with Christ in undoing the harm that Satan the Devil, along with Adam and Eve, brought on the human family.—Luke 12:32; Hebrews 2:14-18.
What an amazing thing! In his original challenge against God’s sovereignty, Satan implied that God’s human creation was flawed—that given enough pressure or incentive, they would all rebel against God’s rule. (Job 1:7-12; 2:2-5) In a dramatic demonstration of “his glorious undeserved kindness,” Jehovah God in time showed his confidence in his earthly creation by adopting some from Adam’s sinful family to be his spiritual children. Those in this small group would be taken to serve in heaven. For what purpose?—Ephesians 1:3-6; John 14:2, 3; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 1 Peter 1:3, 4.
These adopted sons of God, says the apostle Paul, become “joint heirs with Christ” in his heavenly Kingdom. (Romans 8:14-17) As kings and priests, they will have a part in freeing the human family from the pain and suffering it now experiences. (Revelation 5:10) True, “all creation keeps on groaning together and being in pain together until now.” Soon, though, these specially chosen sons of God will follow Jesus Christ into action, and all obedient humans “will be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God” once again.—Romans 8:18-22.

Without the help of these adopted sons the benefit of the greatest gift that god ever gave to mankind, the ransom sacrifice even of his own son, would somehow not be effective.

Jesus ransom blood alone is not effective enough, there is needed some help of the 144.000.....

His ransom sacrifice provides the legal basis for Jehovah to adopt some of Adam’s descendants into his heavenly family and to relieve humankind of the consequences of Adamic sin, without undermining confidence in His laws and principles

Here the ransom is not the greatest gift to mankind but only a legal basis for Jehovah, legally necessary for 1. adopting some familymembers and 2) relieving the rest of mankind.