Posts by TheWonderofYou

I further found a Ron Clayton in oklahoma who is leader of the Indian mission of the Church of Christ on youtube where he is guest speaker seemingly a man in the 70ies

24

Another JW "friend" bites the dust

by TerryWalstrom in

jw
friends

just got word one of my favorite friends died a year ago!

only now have i heard about it.

he remained a devout jehovah's witness--so--he could not/would not speak to me.

JOE RAY PRUETT, SR., former owner of Pruett's T.V. Repair, passed away at his home on September 15, 2004. He is survived by his wife, Donna; son, Joe Jr. and his wife Gina; and grandson, Justin. A Memorial Service will be held at 10:00 AM Saturday, September 18, 2004, at the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses, 114 Staffordshire Road, Stafford, TX 77477.

9

How does the "slave" turn 11 into 500?

by The Fall Guy in

at matthew 28:16, the alleged "faithful slave" changes the number of people whom jesus invites, from 11 to over 500 - in order to "prove" that men, women, and children were commanded to preach.*.

3 - “jesus’ 11 faithful apostles...went to a mountain in galilee to meet the resurrected christ!....“upward of five hundred brothers” may have been present on that occasion.” (or may not!).

other disciples are there too, about 500 of them,.

TheWonderofYou

Didn't Jesus send out once 70 disciples ? Wasn't this the start of preaching? They were called apostles in the tradition. A list of the names is on wikipedia.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventy_disciples

Note also the original gospel: "Woe .to the unrepentant cities" sounds like judgment.

Luke Outline

- - Jesus sends out the 70 (1-12)
  - Woe to unrepentant cities (13-16)
  - The 70 return (17-20)

20

Have you ever considered how bizarre the idea of "War in Heaven" really is?

by TerryWalstrom in

when you grow up and look back on childhood belief you have to laugh at how.

easter bunnies and santa were all too plausible for children because trusted adults who were otherwise unimpeachable sources of truth and reality assured and reassured kids.

why wouldn't they accept it?jehovah's witness kids didn't have santa, we had armageddon.only this morning i suddenly asked myself why i ever accepted the idea of a war in heaven as even remotely sane.

TheWonderofYou

Corr:

So then this "white army in heaven" is simply consisting of ordinary christians who are saved and whitewashed in the blood of the lamb, more cowards than real warriors, the normal peaceful people with peaceful mind preaching the white gospel and presented here as victorious coureagous winners of a battle. Projection in its best form. And again not a real divine judgment or killing of enemies but the gospel is fighting and victouriousy winning.

Like a war but not real war.... it's a spiritual war.. the preaching work is biblically called a spiritual "white war " all of you sitting on white horses riding on command of the white king against invisible evil fighting in the world putting on the full armor of God, Ephesians 6, combined with white linen then if so, but never destructing something but only healing the hearts.bizarre to call and project it as "war", but hey the gospel "wins" how comforting. You are on the winner side.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Apocalypse

20

Have you ever considered how bizarre the idea of "War in Heaven" really is?

by TerryWalstrom in

when you grow up and look back on childhood belief you have to laugh at how.

easter bunnies and santa were all too plausible for children because trusted adults who were otherwise unimpeachable sources of truth and reality assured and reassured kids.

why wouldn't they accept it?jehovah's witness kids didn't have santa, we had armageddon.only this morning i suddenly asked myself why i ever accepted the idea of a war in heaven as even remotely sane.

TheWonderofYou

Next error. In the war at Armageddon on The day of The Lord no rider on a white horse with a bow and arrow is mentioned at all.

It is Watchtowers fantastic conglomering of texts that they at Armageddon in the final slaughter see a horse here.

For this they now wrench and misusthe white horse of Rev.4 in a story about 4 apocalyptical horsemen yet not riding in Armageddon and not together with thousand other white horses of angels but onlg as 3 horsemen - black, red and pale - and only preceding and announcing a certain Apocalypse for the Roman empire and not the world. The white horse here not being used for wrath or annihilate enemies of God physically but as symbol for announcing the gospel which is preceding the end according to Ireneaus. Even if one interpretes the horsemen as consequences of human (roman) war there is nothing said here about God killing billions because he commanded it as final all solution. This story of horsemen is part of the 7 seals-story, which is only announcing something bad for the empires future but is not itself the finally executed judgment by a God.

Then theres is a horsemen in chapter 19 , Christ.

"And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses." White and clean... why because whitewashed...humans not angels. White the colour of the clean good news.

So then this "white army in heaven" is simply consisting of "coward" christians who are saved and whitewashed in the blood of the lamb not real warriors, "coureageous victors" but normal peaceful people with peaceful mind here presented as victorious winners of a battle. Projection as you call it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Apocalypse

36

Anybody here still believe in the bible?

by Mel Morris in

jw
friends

i'm a current bible student of jw's looking to chat with someone about biblical doctrine.

i'm not interested in talking with an apostate or a fader, i'm just a person looking for answers and wondered if there are any neutral voices in this forum who have good insights into the bible.

i currently talk with a couple of jw's on a personal level from my congregation and they are knowledgeable to a certain extent, but i dare not ask them certain questions because, as you know, the congregation has a culture of fear that impacts trust and openness, especially concerning biblical doctrine or the societies teachings.

TheWonderofYou

I think that mostly my mother and stories about Jesus had more influence in education and developing my" conscience " than selected parts of the bible that are only confusing.. My motto is "my conscience first". A benefit in bible reading is hardly easy to achieve and can lead to completely false assumptions. The Bible as heritage yes but not as basis of dressing code, hairstyle, sexual habit regulation but as as remainder of 10 comnandments: to value life and people, respect of property, partnerships, parents and nature, to respect the limits that are not to be transgressed, values which however are the same in all cultures, even the "nations" know of them as the bible tells.

Reading bible is basically loss of lifetime because the kingdom will come .... anyway... automatically according to Jesus, we can't speed it up by reading. And also the result of reading bible is that you then realise at a certain moment that you know not much more than before only that got into difficult symbolism and phrases that you not understand without special language training cause it's full of oriental metaphors.

But hey read the Song of songs and imagine how a sulamith girl stands in a park and you are a king receiving her full adoration, and make your own conclusions if you like.

20

Have you ever considered how bizarre the idea of "War in Heaven" really is?

by TerryWalstrom in

when you grow up and look back on childhood belief you have to laugh at how.

easter bunnies and santa were all too plausible for children because trusted adults who were otherwise unimpeachable sources of truth and reality assured and reassured kids.

why wouldn't they accept it?jehovah's witness kids didn't have santa, we had armageddon.only this morning i suddenly asked myself why i ever accepted the idea of a war in heaven as even remotely sane.

TheWonderofYou

I read Rev.16 verses 14,16 again and yet more now I can hardly understand why this short high symbolic text should be read as a "final solution" for the whole world of unbelievers and a "of most importance" text in the bible. Also Armageddon seems to be not " a war in heaven" but "more earth-orientied " because of the " kings of the nations " mentioned, which could be a phrase chosen by John to mean simple the Roman empire which then was the whole world, but he avoided it to call Rome.

This WAR of wrath - part of the 7 bowls of wrath -- was then I think simple a part of the 6th bowls of Gods wrath - the wrath against Babylon/Rome and not about the end of the world, killing of all unbelievers, as the river Euphrat are mentioned in the same verse as armageddon.

Read the 7th bowl and it again speaks about BAbylon. So everything seems to point to an earthly wrath against the Roman empire in which all kings of all nations take symbolically part and to which they congregate themselves at a symbolic place of Armageddon, this is language of hope, that was used in the Johanite community liturgy. The terminology of war was present but in highly symbolic use.

So I think John or the first christians did not mean Armagedon a war against all nonbelievers at the end of time but Armageddon to be a war of babylon the great which riding and influencing all kings against holy church and God's wrath against babylon afterwards.

The other more heavenly "war in heaven" - according to your definition - in which a dragon and michael appears is another subject yet more interesting for my later post.

43

Be Couragous! - (Like The Governing Body?)

by pale.emperor in

i was watching lloyd evans rebuttal to the saturday program of the be courageous convention.

lloyd pointed out something that had occurred to me as well:.

all this talk and examples of courage, whether it be standing up in class defending intelligent design, putting up with being imprisoned, not running away from bullies, always having a reply to someone who tries to ridicule your faith... the young ones are encourages - nay, commanded - to stand their ground and be courageous.

TheWonderofYou

Followers of Apostle Peter, the coward. "No no no ...I don't belong to them", exemplary Christian coward for all GB members. Even Peter was weak. Has this example of non - couragousness not been mentioned at the convention at all? if yet GB is imitating him.

16

Dutch Branch office response to the motion accepted by Parliament: "an investigation is shooting with a cannon on a mosquito"

by jochie in

today a large article was published in a dutch newspaper 'dagblad van het noorden'.

it is about frank huiting, the reclaimed voices foundation and the adopted motion in parliament.

the branch office has given a reaction:.

TheWonderofYou

Like it was the case with the Australian victims now the Dutch contacted professional lawyers. This was for the Mosquito paradise organisation the turningpoint to end the phase of constructive consultation. The org has a Sound protocol and would never sue anyone for anyone in brotherly fairness. Therefore - How could erring victims go to lawyers is not understandable. Now what remains for them to use sound mosqito warfare strategy is in place. Hiding as invisible congregtion members, sucking and attacking.

The governments are exegarating. Abusers are not such a big problem. P.S. mosquitos are according to the press release the exemplary for abusers in the organisation. Misbehaviour should not be criminalisized but soundly protocolized as sin. The apostates make a giant problem of it.