Posts by TheWonderofYou

9

SILLY OBSESSION: Jehovah's Witnesses' Conspiracy Theory about the Return of Christ

by TerryWalstrom in

______silly obsessionsome groups of people in the world believe flying saucers and space aliens are secretly visiting our planet intervening in man’s affairs.

jehovah’s witnesses believe something very similar!

"before leaving the earth, jesus christ promised to return.".

TheWonderofYou

Somewhere in the midst I began to thrift away and think of other things, sorry the dogma is simply fiction. But If we not preached that stuff about jehovah and armageddon we would have EVEN loaded stark blood GUILT on us for the billions of innihilated unbelievers. The referring bible passage we learned in the baptism course but it doesnt come into my mind fast. It was a warning werk.

But ironically the message of destruction is blurred and distorted for the publicity. It is presented as the good message. JW fear talking about the real message.

Another concering fact is that the passage "Come Lord Jesus" (Rev. 22,20) has been interpreted too by some as "coming" of Jesus into "ones heart", "coming" on an individual basis, encounter with god, what would then make of "presence", "dawn" "advent" "parousia", "coming" interchangeable terms in ones individual encounter with god and not in the history as the second coming. This is similar to the endless presence of Jesus with JW.

Also the again and again celebrated advent seasons are dawning now again, and each year again and again we have advent, jesus comes also somehow "invisible?" in our hearts, but does he really arrive ultimatetly each year. Are christians not constantly playing with the "coming" and parousia thought? Is that not also similiar to the shifting of coming time to the endless future? Why cant we wait for the second coming?

This is a not so farfetched thought: Perhaps already the community with christ by partaking bread and wine at the Lords Body Supper, is the ADVENT of ETERNITY that counts, the real parousia the presence of God in ones life?

This would the "presence", Parousia of Jesus Christ make being not so far away of us somewhere in the clouds -no ... he would be near instead very close to us - in our midst - in our heart (heart is in jewish faith the human core) - and the partaking at the Lords Supper would be the real timeless "coming" and "encounter" he presumably meant ? (Who knows)

The word “Advent” is derived from the Latin word adventus, meaning “coming,” which is a translation of the Greek word parousia.
Scholars believe that during the 4th and 5th centuries in Spain and Gaul, Advent was a season of preparation for the baptism of new Christians at the January feast of Epiphany, the celebration of God’s incarnation represented by the visit of the Magi to the baby Jesus (Matthew 2:1), his baptism in the Jordan River by John the Baptist (John 1:29), and his first miracle at Cana (John 2:1). During this season of preparation, Christians would spend 40 days in penance, prayer, and fasting to prepare for this celebration; originally, there was little connection between Advent and Christmas.
By the 6th century, however, Roman Christians had tied Advent to the coming of Christ. But the “coming” they had in mind was not Christ’s first coming in the manger in Bethlehem, but his second coming in the clouds as the judge of the world. It was not until the Middle Ages that the Advent season was explicitly linked to Christ’s first coming at Christmas.
http://www.christianity.com/christian-life/christmas/what-is-advent.html

Acts 15,29 Charles Ellicot’s comment about the phrase "Fare ye well"

by TheWonderofYou in

this commentary might be helpful as reference although it is very old.

it is part of the biblehub comments about acts 15,29 as well.

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/acts/15-29.htm.

TheWonderofYou

This commentary might be helpful as reference although it is very old. It is part of the biblehub comments about Acts 15,29 as well. http://biblehub.com/commentaries/acts/15-29.htm

Charles John Ellicott, compiler of and contributor to this renowned Bible Commentary, was one of the most outstanding conservative scholars of the 18th century. He was born at Whitwell near Stamford, England, on April 25, 1819. https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/ebc.html

„… not even the most devout believer in the inspiration of the Apostles, or in the authority of primitive antiquity would venture to urge that the two last precepts of the four here enjoined were in any degree binding“, Charles John Ellicott

https://archive.org/details/biblecommentaryf01elliuoft

Commentary to Acts 15 (29)

From meats offered to idols.—The specific term takes the place of the more general word which St. James had used. The change, if the two words were not used, as is possible, as altogether equivalent, may be thought of as favouring the Gentiles by narrowing the prohibition to a single point.

Fare ye well.—The closing salutation was, like the opening, a Greek and not a Hebrew one. It meets us again in Acts 23:30. Both were naturally used in a letter addressed to Greeks, and intended to be read by them and by Hellenistic Jews. It does not occur, however, in any of the Epistles of the New Testament.

It is natural to ask, at the close of the great encyclical letter, in what relation it really stood to the life of the Apostolic Church. As a concordat between the contending parties it was framed, as has been said, with a sagacity that may well be looked on as inspired. But obviously it was not, and from the nature of the case could not be, more than that. The time had not come for proclaiming to the Church of Jerusalem the full width of St. Paul’s teaching (Galatians 2:2), and accordingly, though something may be read between the lines, the decree seems to treat the precepts of Noah as perpetually binding, places moral and positive obligations on the same footing, and leaves the ground on which they are “necessary” an open question.

St. Paul, who had accepted it as a satisfactory settlement of the matter in debate, never refers to it, even when he is discussing the chief point with which the decree dealt (1 Corinthians 8-10). In his narrative of what passed on this occasion (Galatians 2:1-10) there is no mention of it.

The private conference with the three great “pillars” of the Church was for him more than the decree of the synod, and he felt himself able to discuss the whole question again on different grounds, and with a more distinct reference to spiritual and ethical principles.

It was wrong to eat things sacrificed to idols, not because the act of so eating in itself brought defilement, but because it might involve a participation in the sin of idolatry in the consciousness of the eater, or wound the conscience of the weaker brother who saw him eat.

It was natural that those who lacked his largeness of view should become slaves to the letter of the rules long after the grounds on which they rested had ceased to exist, and so we find that the prohibition of blood was re-enforced in the so-called Apostolic Canons (c. 62), and in the fourth century by the Council of Gangra (c. 2), and in the seventh by that at Constantinople, known as in Trullo (c. 67), and continues to be the binding rule of the Greek Church still.

In Africa and in Europe, however, truer views prevailed (August, cont. Faust. xxxii. 13), and not even the most devout believer in the inspiration of the Apostles, or in the authority of primitive antiquity would venture to urge that the two last precepts of the four here enjoined were in any degree binding.

Hooker (Eccl. Pol. iv., xi., § 5) rightly refers to this decree as a crucial instance proving that commands might be divine and yet given only for a season, binding as long as the conditions to which they applied continued, but no longer.

It would almost seem, indeed, as if St. Paul felt that the terms of the decree had the effect of placing the sin of impurity on the same level with that of eating things sacrificed to idols, and things strangled, and blood, and so tended to keep men from seeing it in its true hatefulness. Those who claimed a right, which in the abstract St. Paul could not deny, to eat of things strangled or offered to idols, thought themselves free to fall back into the old license of the heathen world, and he needed far stronger motives than the canons of the council to restrain them (1 Corinthians 5:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:15-20, and found those motives in the truths that they had been bought with a price, that the will of God was their sanctification, and that their bodies were His temple.

Look at Page 100 of the original extensive bible commentary Volume VII (Acts to Galatians) to read the original text

https://archive.org/stream/biblecommentaryf07elliuoft#page/100/mode/2up

15

Acts 15,19-21 James on Dietary Law and Blood ( some of the oldest available manuscripts with the passage)

by TheWonderofYou in

the bible manuscript below is a picture of the p45 (gregory aland number) from the 3rd century.

i have cut out the passage of acts 15,19-21 from the greek text.

you can compare the p45 with the greek text from nestle aland.

TheWonderofYou

In this context thus many important points come into mind, if I am alowed to lead on this subject:

1) pornei

that the greek verb porneia has different meanings and is not only "fornication"

The modern NABRE Bible renders the term "porneia" with "unlawful marriage" and refers to the jewish understanding and usage of this word.

This subject has been emphasized too in this forum by Terry W.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/395860001/does-abstain-from-blood-really-mean-do-murder

In this thread Caleb commented

The term PORNEIA refers to "illicit sexual union" with the word "illicit" capable of reflecting mores of a pagan or Jewish culture. In this instance the scholars who worked on this translation chose the term to reflect Jewish understandings, and thus the Noahide sanctions against incestuous unions colored this particular rendition.

2) Why does the "Western text with the negative form of the golden rule" not appear in the modern bibles at all? Why do the Bibles stay with the egytian older text witness like with the Papyrus P45?

Do the other older egyptian based Codices also have the "strangled animals" in it? The Codex Vaticanus e.g.?

15

Acts 15,19-21 James on Dietary Law and Blood ( some of the oldest available manuscripts with the passage)

by TheWonderofYou in

the bible manuscript below is a picture of the p45 (gregory aland number) from the 3rd century.

i have cut out the passage of acts 15,19-21 from the greek text.

you can compare the p45 with the greek text from nestle aland.

TheWonderofYou

If we compare the both text variants of the bible we have:

Acts 15,20 (egyptian, Nestle-Aland)

But prescribe to them [the Gentiles] that they contain oneself from defilement
idols and of fornication and of suffocated animals and of the blood. (translation mine)

Acts 15,20 (D-text, Codex Bezai)

But prescribe to them [the Gentiles] that they contain oneself from defilement of
idols and fornication and of the blood and not to do others what one does not want to happen to oneself. (translation mine)

similar text differences are in Acts 15,29 and 21,25

15

Acts 15,19-21 James on Dietary Law and Blood ( some of the oldest available manuscripts with the passage)

by TheWonderofYou in

the bible manuscript below is a picture of the p45 (gregory aland number) from the 3rd century.

i have cut out the passage of acts 15,19-21 from the greek text.

you can compare the p45 with the greek text from nestle aland.

TheWonderofYou

https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-NN-00002-00041/787

Goto page 787 and open the options. Choose transcription into greek. you get the greek text

Above show verses 15:18-20, the numbers on the left are the line number in the codex

γνωστον απ αιωνος εστιν τω κω το εργον αυτου
διο εγω κρεινω μη παρενοχλειν
τοις απο των εθνων επιστρεφουσιν επι τον θν
αλλα επιστειλαι αυτοις του απεχεσθαι
των αλισγηματων των ειδωλων
και της πορνειας και του αιματος
και οσα μη θελουσιν εαυτοις γεινεσθαι
ετεροις μη ποιειτε

των αλισγηματων των ειδωλων .... here this looks like "idols"..eidolos
και της πορνειας και του αιματος ..... here is porneias.....and ...haimatos (Blood)

What the "Wester text type" misses is "the strangled animals". But instead the copyist added

this text.

και οσα μη θελουσιν εαυτοις γεινεσθαι ......BUT WHAT IS THAT, it is not in your bible?
ετεροις μη ποιειτε

θελουσιν - wish, okay its the Golden Rule of which also Terry spoke in the thread 3 years ago

Terry on Jehovahs witnesses.com wrote:
"(b) The Western text omits ‘what is strangled’ and adds a negative form of the Golden Rule in 15.20 and 29. . . . Concerning (b), it is obvious that the threefold prohibition . . . refers to moral injunctions to refrain from idolatry, unchastity and blood-shedding (or murder), to which is added the negative Golden Rule." 1

The "western texts" were those used by a significant number of those early Christian writers, and these texts had already replaced the purely ritual rules in the original description of the Apostolic Council with moral rules. Obviously, then, these later copyists were not aware of the background of the blood prohibition, and struggled to understand the text. To make it more acceptable, they "corrected" the text to be a list of three moral laws: idolatry, unchastity and murder. And hardly anyone will deny that these rules apply to all Christians! No wonder, then, that the early Christian writers argued that the apostolic council still applied.
Concerning these texts, we read:
"Of the remaining types of texts which Westcott and Hort isolated, the so-called Western Type is both ancient and widespread. . . . Its date of origin must have been extremely early, perhaps before the middle of the second century. Marcion, Tatian, Justin, Irenaeus, Hippolytus, Tertullian and Cyprian all made use to a greater or less extent of a Western form of text."
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/275895/letting-jesus-refute-watch-tower-blood-policies

15

Acts 15,19-21 James on Dietary Law and Blood ( some of the oldest available manuscripts with the passage)

by TheWonderofYou in

the bible manuscript below is a picture of the p45 (gregory aland number) from the 3rd century.

i have cut out the passage of acts 15,19-21 from the greek text.

you can compare the p45 with the greek text from nestle aland.

TheWonderofYou

I got it!!!

Page 787 of Codex Theodori Bezai.

15

Acts 15,19-21 James on Dietary Law and Blood ( some of the oldest available manuscripts with the passage)

by TheWonderofYou in

the bible manuscript below is a picture of the p45 (gregory aland number) from the 3rd century.

i have cut out the passage of acts 15,19-21 from the greek text.

you can compare the p45 with the greek text from nestle aland.

TheWonderofYou

The unity of Luke and Acts

www.hts.org.za/index.php/HTS/article/download/1657/2949

15

Acts 15,19-21 James on Dietary Law and Blood ( some of the oldest available manuscripts with the passage)

by TheWonderofYou in

the bible manuscript below is a picture of the p45 (gregory aland number) from the 3rd century.

i have cut out the passage of acts 15,19-21 from the greek text.

you can compare the p45 with the greek text from nestle aland.

TheWonderofYou

Whereas the "Western standard text" of Acts is preserved in other collections

"Western text" of Acts:

Codex D 05 (Codex Bezae Cantabrigiensis), named after Theodor Beza († 1605), a greek scholar and co-worker of Calvin, who rediscovered this code from the 5th or 6th century and handed him to the University of Cambridge in 1581. Online at University of Cambridge https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-NN-00002-00041/685 The "Western text" is also attested

by Papyrus P38 (approx. 300 AD; contains Acts 18,27-19 : 6, 12-16; today in Ann Arbor, Michigan and

P48 (3rd century, contains Acts 23.11 - 17.23-29; today in Firenze Italy).

The term "Western text" comes from the fact that this textual delivery was first discovered by Western church fathers, e.g. Irenaeus of Lyon († 202 AD).

About the Codex Bezae

Codex Bezae (MS Nn.2.41)
There are half-a-dozen ancient manuscripts which are the foundation of our understanding of the text of the New Testament writings. Among these stands the copy known since the sixteenth century as Codex Bezae Cantabrigiensis. Any manuscript which has survived from antiquity is a marvel for this reason alone, and as we explore its pages, we have a rare opportunity to explore a little of the written culture of late antique Christianity. Although in the past century some remarkable papyrus manuscripts have been recovered from the sands of Egypt, their discovery has in general served more to highlight the significance of the parchment manuscripts than to diminish it.
Among this group, Codex Bezae occupies a unique place for several reasons. In the first place, as a bilingual manuscript, with a Greek text and a Latin version on facing pages, it provides a valuable insight into the reception of the Gospels and Acts in the western Christian tradition. The Latin version it contains is one of the small handful of manuscripts which are the most important witnesses to the development of a Latin version before Jerome's famous Vulgate of 382. Secondly, it provides a strikingly different form of text to that preserved in almost every other manuscript, and to the printed Greek text and the translations derived from it. These differences consist in the Gospels in frequent harmonisation of the text and in Acts in a free restyling of the text found best represented by Codex Vaticanus and reproduced in English translations.
The manuscript is the work of a single scribe, one trained primarily to copy Latin texts. Its present contents are the Gospels of Matthew, John, Luke and Mark, a single page of the last verses of 3 John (in Latin only) and the Acts of the Apostles. The only book that is complete is the Gospel of Luke, since there are pages missing from all the others. It is possible that between Mark and 3 John the manuscript originally contained Revelation and the rest of the Epistles of John. The Gospels are in the so-called Western order, with the two who were apostles first, followed by the two who were companions of the apostles.
The manuscript is best dated to the end of the fourth or the beginning of the fifth century. Many places have been proposed for its place of origin, including southern France, Africa, Egypt and Palestine. I have proposed Berytus (Beirut). There were a number of correctors and annotators working in the first centuries of its existence. The first strong evidence for the manuscript's history is replacement leaves for missing portions of Matthew, John and Mark. The style of writing and the use of blue ink provide a very strong case that these pages were written in Lyons in the ninth century. At this period Lyons was an important centre for the dissemination of ancient works in the west.
It is probable that the Codex Bezae remained there, in the Monastery of St Irenaeus, until the sixteenth century. It was apparently taken over the Alps to the Council of Trent in 1546. Its textual significance was already recognised, since it was one of the manuscripts whose readings was cited in the first edition of the Greek New Testament to include such information, made by Robert Stephanus in Paris in 1550. Then after the sacking of Lyons in the religious wars it came into the hands of the Reformer Theodore de Bèze, Calvin’s successor at Geneva. The first part of its name is derived from the Latin form of his name, Beza. In 1581, Beza presented the manuscript to Cambridge University. This is the origin of the second part of its name, Cantabrigiensis.
A printed transcription of the manuscript (using a font imitating the shape of the characters) was published by the University Press in 1793. A more accurate transcription, with the corrections and annotations fully detailed, was made by F.H. Scrivener and published by Deighton Bell in 1864. A facsimile edition was published by the University Press in 1899.
Of the many distinctive readings of the manuscript, the following deserve special mention:
It is the oldest manuscript to contain the story of the adulterous woman (John 7.53-8.11). It is on Folios 133v to 135.
The genealogy of Jesus in Luke's Gospel is arranged in reverse order so as to conform more closely with that in Matthew. It is on Folios 195v to 197.
There is a story about Jesus found in no other manuscript (the story of the man working on the Sabbath, placed after Luke 6.4). It is on Folios 205v and 206.
It is the oldest manuscript to contain the longer ending of Mark (16.9-20). The last pages of Mark are missing, so all that remains is the Greek text of verses 9-15. What follows is text supplied in the ninth century. It is on Folio 347v.
In Acts, when the angel delivers Peter from prison the detail is added that they go into the street down seven steps (Acts 12.10). It is on Folios 463v-464, eleven lines from the bottom of the page.
Professor David Parker
Edward Cadbury Professor of Theology and Director of the Institute for Textual Scholarship and Electronic Editing
University of Birmingham
March, 2012

---

It will take time to find out on which folio exactly the passage Acts 15,20 where blood is mentioned is to find.

Anybody here to help me on which folio it is? The western text (the "D" text) should read else than the eastern text. It should read similar to

" But prescribe to them [the Gentiles] that they to contain oneself from defilement of idols and fornication and of the blood and others, not to do what one does not want it to happen to oneself."

To be continued.

https://books.google.at/books?id=bGW7AwAAQBAJ&pg=PP11&lpg=PP11&dq=greek+text+codex+d+05&source=bl&ots=yMl092W6q7&sig=7PdGPFZF-vpHcb_dMKkSe7Nmgqk&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-iama4cbQAhXM7hoKHbt0Du4Q6AEIMzAC#v=onepage&q=greek%20text%20codex%20d%2005&f=false

15

Acts 15,19-21 James on Dietary Law and Blood ( some of the oldest available manuscripts with the passage)

by TheWonderofYou in

the bible manuscript below is a picture of the p45 (gregory aland number) from the 3rd century.

i have cut out the passage of acts 15,19-21 from the greek text.

you can compare the p45 with the greek text from nestle aland.

TheWonderofYou

The bible manuscript below is a picture of the P45 (Gregory Aland number) from the 3rd century. I have cut out the passage of Acts 15,19-21 from the greek text. You can compare the P45 with the greek text from Nestle Aland.

P45 is a papyrus which contains the biblebook "Acts of the Apostels" namely the chapters 4 - 17 hence also it has the passage where James speaks about blood and strangled animals. The text appears in the egyptian standard text type, which is the older witness of bible text.

Besides in the P45 the eastern text of Acts is further preserved in the great codes that also contain Acts in the "Egyptian standard text type.

Overview about oldest texts that preserve the eastern standard text of Acts:

P45, This papyrus in codeform contains the "Egyptian (or eastern text or minority) standard text of Acts. (3rd century, P45 contains large parts of Acts from chapters 4 to 17, Dublin, Chester Beatty Library and Vienna, Austrian National Library, in Dublin are 18 leaves and in Vienna 2.

Codex Sinaiticus (X, 4th century, by Constantine Tischendorf, 1844 and 1859 discovered in the Monastery of St. Catherine in the Sinai; today in London, British Library)

Codex Vaticanus (B; 4th century; today in Rome)

Codex Alexandrinus (A fifth century, now in London, British Library)

and Codex EphraemiRescriptus (C, 5th century, washed down in the twelfth century and described with tracts of the Syrian ecclesiastical father; today in Paris).

In addition, the Egyptian text form is testified by Egyptian church fathers, such as Clemens of Alexandria († 212) and Origen († 253).

P45

http://www.csntm.org/manuscript/View/GA_P45

The text appears on fol. 28 "titled "Acts 15.19"

Where is the word "blood" in the papyrus?... blood is the "καὶ τοῦ αἵματος", which you find in the Papyrus in the 3rd line on the right

http://www.nestle-aland.com/de/na28-online-lesen/text/bibeltext/lesen/stelle/54/150001/159999/

19διὸ ἐγὼ κρίνω μὴ παρενοχλεῖν τοῖς ἀπὸ τῶν ἐθνῶν ἐπιστρέφουσιν ἐπὶ τὸν θεόν,

20ἀλλ’ ἐπιστεῖλαι αὐτοῖς τοῦ ἀπέχεσθαι τῶν ἀλισγημάτων τῶν εἰδώλων καὶ τῆς πορνείας καὶ τοῦ πνικτοῦ καὶ τοῦ αἵματος.

21Μωϋσῆς γὰρ ἐκ γενεῶν ἀρχαίων κατὰ πόλιν τοὺς κηρύσσοντας αὐτὸν ἔχει ἐν ταῖς συναγωγαῖς κατὰ πᾶν σάββατον ἀναγινωσκόμενος.

19 It is my judgment, therefore, that we ought to stop troubling the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but tell them by letter to avoid pollution from idols, unlawful marriage, the meat of strangled animals, and blood. 21 For Moses, for generations now, has had those who proclaim him in every town, as he has been read in the synagogues every sabbath.” https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts+15%2C20&version=NABRE

(The last line of my cut out reads .... BATON ANA....." σάββατον ἀναγινωσκόμενος" which is "sabbath" the first B is damaged.

This OP will be continued with furhter pictures of the Eastern and Western text type and overview in which old codes and Papyrus the "western standard text" is preserved, only give me time.

7

Blood is healthy

by TheWonderofYou in

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2112829-blood-from-human-teens-rejuvenates-body-and-brains-of-old-mice/.

the key to youth appears to be in the blood plasma – the liquid part of blood.

several studies have found that injecting plasma from young mice into old mice can help rejuvenate the brain and other organs, including the liver, heart, and muscle.. blood has the power to turn back time.

TheWonderofYou

The contemporay vampir who wants to be "in" will have to inject the virgin's plasma. Only the effect of plasma has been investigated. If other components of blood would have similar juventile results would be an interesting subject for the bloodless-research field. So JW could use this side effect to have juventile therapy and make some money.

In the meanwhile remains: no whole blood, only plasma