Emery

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Posts by Emery

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  37

  Do's and Dont's on debating JWs online

  by Emery in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  recently i have seen an increase number of former members trying to argue ttatt with jws on youtube, news articles, facebook and public forums.

  for the most part, i do not see a lot of vicious or hostile debates when former members are trying to show ttatt, but i have seen some arguments and approaches turn out very ugly, to the point of many face palms.. i remember there were several instances that completely turned me off towards ttatt as a believer because "apostates" would be entirely reprehensible and would fit the bill of what the society termed "mentally diseased".

  i cannot fault ones here who have gone on a similar rampage now that i understand how people lose everything and everyone they love.

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  Emery

  @jgnat, I think that's an excellent approach. Ask first and assure them that your intention or motive is not to cause them to question their faith or God. Also, making them the teacher and assuming the role of the student removes the unwarranted suspicion. The burden of proof all of a sudden falls on them as representatives of God's people.

  "I can't seem to understand _____?"

  "I would like to better understand your position on _____?"

  "When I read this scripture I take from it _____?"

  "Can you give me a little more background on ______?"

  Then when they make a circular statement, press them for evidence for such a claim, "Can you prove this from: secular, ubiased, historical or objective sources to prove this truth?" When they cannot, tell them "I competely understand how you feel about this, however this seems to me like a faith claim and many people all around the earth can assert their own interpretation of the bible."

  Now if you ever face the situation of interpretation and authority, knowing how to ask questions to dismantle the faithful slave doctrine is GOLD.

  These types of approaches can help eliminate many of the walls associated with their indoctrination and causes their mind to start thinking and resolving the problem. In their minds, the truth has to be proven to you and can be easily answered. Keeping a classy loving attitude and tone throughout does wanders, it did for me when I read Crisis of Conscience.
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  37

  Do's and Dont's on debating JWs online

  by Emery in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  recently i have seen an increase number of former members trying to argue ttatt with jws on youtube, news articles, facebook and public forums.

  for the most part, i do not see a lot of vicious or hostile debates when former members are trying to show ttatt, but i have seen some arguments and approaches turn out very ugly, to the point of many face palms.. i remember there were several instances that completely turned me off towards ttatt as a believer because "apostates" would be entirely reprehensible and would fit the bill of what the society termed "mentally diseased".

  i cannot fault ones here who have gone on a similar rampage now that i understand how people lose everything and everyone they love.

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  Emery

  IMO I think the experiences told here demonstrate how pointless it can be sometimes to try and force an interaction/debate with JWs online. Its best done by establishing a central location of information like JWfacts.com where people can choose it or leave it, read things for themselves and then weigh the evidence. Providing hard facts and never trying to imply or tell them how to think about it. Only asking for objectivity and for people to remove bias to the best of their ability. Confrontational back and forth messaging or videos can trigger unnecessary emotions of fear, anxiety, guilt, and prejudice. If we can create an environment where these feelings can be tossed aside we can readily show them the irrefutible truth.
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  37

  Do's and Dont's on debating JWs online

  by Emery in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  recently i have seen an increase number of former members trying to argue ttatt with jws on youtube, news articles, facebook and public forums.

  for the most part, i do not see a lot of vicious or hostile debates when former members are trying to show ttatt, but i have seen some arguments and approaches turn out very ugly, to the point of many face palms.. i remember there were several instances that completely turned me off towards ttatt as a believer because "apostates" would be entirely reprehensible and would fit the bill of what the society termed "mentally diseased".

  i cannot fault ones here who have gone on a similar rampage now that i understand how people lose everything and everyone they love.

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  Emery

  DaCheech, I understand completely. I can see how someone could go ape shit after leaving the organization, but acting like that does more damage to our credibility as former members than it does to the Watchtower. Now if people want to be angry and get some payback, call up your local news station and tell them your story. Don't go on a rampage on unsuspecting Jdubs browsing the web.
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  37

  Do's and Dont's on debating JWs online

  by Emery in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  recently i have seen an increase number of former members trying to argue ttatt with jws on youtube, news articles, facebook and public forums.

  for the most part, i do not see a lot of vicious or hostile debates when former members are trying to show ttatt, but i have seen some arguments and approaches turn out very ugly, to the point of many face palms.. i remember there were several instances that completely turned me off towards ttatt as a believer because "apostates" would be entirely reprehensible and would fit the bill of what the society termed "mentally diseased".

  i cannot fault ones here who have gone on a similar rampage now that i understand how people lose everything and everyone they love.

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  Emery

  Yup Phizzy, I have been wanting to shed some light on this subject for quite awhile. I agree that you have to be firm and present the irrefutible evidence tactfully.

  @jgnat, the first couple of "apostate" videos I encountered did not help me AT ALL. The common theme I always found was, "WITNESSES DONT BELIVE IN THE DIETY OF CHRIST! JOHN 1:1 IS A MISTRANSLATION" and these evangelicals harped so much about Jesus being God that I could not find anything to help me discover TTATT. Everything seemed to revolve around the Trinity doctrine or Free masons/illuminati conspiracies. The Witnesses of Jehovah video also didn't jive well with me as they kept using alien terms like, "Accept Christ into your lives" and "false prophets", and the tone of the video felt competely negative and riddled with evangelical propaganda. There wasn't much objectivity or any common ground to walk on in those videos. Even now that I am out, I wouldn't reference any JWs to that video.

  The Snarky Apologist guy also takes it a bit far, throwing the NWT to the ground and making rude back-handed comments to the JWs watching his videos. One time I fact checked some scriptures he was using against JWs and found him taking things out of context. I found it funny when he would do everything mentioned and then end his videos with, "Listen Witnesses I am doing this for your own good, I am Christian, leave this cult!" I understand where he is coming from now and will agree that not all of his videos are terrible, but the evangelical approach enforced the "Us versus them" attitude in me.

  E-watchman confused the f*** out of me. I was like, should I stay or should I go? Looking back now he was the gateway drug to my full apostasy haha. I think he still wants to believe something divine still exists within the organization and just can't let it go.

  The online videos that were the most effective for me were; Ed Dunlap's testimony, Peter Gregerson's BRCI talk on the Faithful and Discreet Slave, the testimonies of the Dublin elders, Greg Stafford and Truth4Jw. When I finally watched the spanish interview of Ray Franz on YouTube, everything came crashing down. He was so loving and spoke very nicely about the witnesses, he even showed admiration for some of the Governing body members, I was in shock. I was expecting this guy to start spewing some venom and reveal that apostate bitterness -- my was I wrong. Franz was very professional, classy and only provided historical facts during the interview. After that interview I read C of C and the rest was history.
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  51

  Orangeburg Assembly Hall - designed to be sold as a future supermarket?

  by cedars in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've just been watching a youtube video that reveals the new assembly hall in orangeburg, sc.. two things struck me when watching it.... firstly, everything is attributed to jehovah, right down to deciding the location where the hall is to be built.

  "we examined over 300 properties," said one interviewee, "we were reminded that jehovah knew where the site was, we just had to keep looking and show him that we were persistent.

  " other workers interviewed throughout the video attribute everything to god, as though it is impossible to build anything without divine direction.. here is the video.... .

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  Emery

  lol @ Outlaw.

  I wonder if Jehovah's holy spirit was behind Phil Knight and the Oregon Duck facilities or Dallas Stadium?

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_umtAnyCfQE
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  17

  I NEED HELP!

  by nolongerconfused in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  guys, i have faded about a 1 month ago...now 1 elder, who i consider a friend as a person and like a father is texting me.... i don't hate the guy, i consider him my friend even though i don't believe what he believes...he's telling me he hasnt seen me at the meetings and he's worried...he asked me if i could go in service with him this weekend...i have not responded, i dont know what to say since i don't want to go through no judicial committee or something like that...nobody there knows i know ttabtt...any suggestions on how i should respond?.

  thanks!.

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  Emery

  You don't have to do anything but assure him you're fine. I had this happen to me, I tell them I will contact them for service and that you have prior engagements you must tend to that weekend/day. Dismiss the request and thank them.
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  37

  Do's and Dont's on debating JWs online

  by Emery in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  recently i have seen an increase number of former members trying to argue ttatt with jws on youtube, news articles, facebook and public forums.

  for the most part, i do not see a lot of vicious or hostile debates when former members are trying to show ttatt, but i have seen some arguments and approaches turn out very ugly, to the point of many face palms.. i remember there were several instances that completely turned me off towards ttatt as a believer because "apostates" would be entirely reprehensible and would fit the bill of what the society termed "mentally diseased".

  i cannot fault ones here who have gone on a similar rampage now that i understand how people lose everything and everyone they love.

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  Emery

  you might find some tips on that at JWmatch.com :)
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  41

  My wife is feeling uncomfortable about the NEW LIGHT

  by sosoconfused in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so my wife is aware that i am totally disillusioned and i am having problems with lots of things.

  one day she can see the crap(such as this past watchtower question from readers about ivf... what a pile of insanity.

  if someone carries me and my wifes baby i have committed porneia rofl!!!

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  Emery

  LOL Data Dog, yes any one of those cartoons can be used to illustrate the new light. Theological Voltron was the first illustration I used.

  I have found myself having to explain new light to several witness friends lately (yes the irregular spiritually weak witness is now the teacher). You can sense a bit of awkwardness when I resort to using famous cartoon illustrations, but it cannot be denied.
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  37

  Do's and Dont's on debating JWs online

  by Emery in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  recently i have seen an increase number of former members trying to argue ttatt with jws on youtube, news articles, facebook and public forums.

  for the most part, i do not see a lot of vicious or hostile debates when former members are trying to show ttatt, but i have seen some arguments and approaches turn out very ugly, to the point of many face palms.. i remember there were several instances that completely turned me off towards ttatt as a believer because "apostates" would be entirely reprehensible and would fit the bill of what the society termed "mentally diseased".

  i cannot fault ones here who have gone on a similar rampage now that i understand how people lose everything and everyone they love.

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  3. 
• 

  Emery

  Apognophos, I agree 100%

  When I see a few posters use middle school insults or language like that, I can't help but shake my head. Some do come across like a jealous ex who can't seem to move on, desperate and always venting. I think people should be more self aware of their negativity or anger. It does nobody any good and it will certainly rear its ugly head in any online interaction with active curious JWs.
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  37

  Do's and Dont's on debating JWs online

  by Emery in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  recently i have seen an increase number of former members trying to argue ttatt with jws on youtube, news articles, facebook and public forums.

  for the most part, i do not see a lot of vicious or hostile debates when former members are trying to show ttatt, but i have seen some arguments and approaches turn out very ugly, to the point of many face palms.. i remember there were several instances that completely turned me off towards ttatt as a believer because "apostates" would be entirely reprehensible and would fit the bill of what the society termed "mentally diseased".

  i cannot fault ones here who have gone on a similar rampage now that i understand how people lose everything and everyone they love.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Emery

  Recently I have seen an increase number of former members trying to argue TTATT with JWs on YouTube, news articles, facebook and public forums. For the most part, i do not see a lot of vicious or hostile debates when former members are trying to show TTATT, but I have seen some arguments and approaches turn out very ugly, to the point of many face palms.

  I remember there were several instances that completely turned me off towards TTATT as a believer because "apostates" would be entirely reprehensible and would fit the bill of what the Society termed "mentally diseased". I cannot fault ones here who have gone on a similar rampage now that I understand how people lose everything and everyone they love. However, I want others to know of my experience and how certain people delayed my awakening to the TTATT.

  There was one person in particular who seemed to fish for everything and anything JW on the web, a Danny Hazzard. I found his strategy (if there was one) to be incredibly hostile and unbearable. I'm sure he frequents this board and is well known, I have no issues with the guy now but I will say his approach during my indoctrination heavily delayed my awakening, it reinforced the idea of persecution. Also, I remember when the online video of the Bulgarian kingdom hall attack by thugs hit the net, just from reading the comments by "apostates" I was appalled by the nature of the comments. I remember reading horrendous things like, "Brainwashed cult deserved it" and many other negative comments, this delayed and almost cost my objectivity toward "apostate" arguments. My persecution complex only hardened and made the "Truth" more real to me when love wasn't used. I think this topic needs to be analyzed more to educate anyone going into debates with JWs with the best and most effective ways to apporach TTATT. So my questions are:

  • How many here have woken up to TTATT because of an "apostate" debated you on it?
  • If so did their attitude play a huge part in it?
  • What ways can we improve the approach?