How can you possibly be spiritual if you're a man and wear a beard? Or if you're a woman and wear pants/slacks in worship activities?
Really??????
jeremiah18:5-10
JoinedPosts by jeremiah18:5-10
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So basically, it's all for show
by jeremiah18:5-10 injw's claim to be god-fearing, faithful, spiritual people with a unique special personal relationship with god (jehovah).. yet, so much of what they do is just fro show, an outward appearance of holiness and faithfulness:.
) shunning- an organization-sanctioned shunning policy publicly "outs" the shunned and puts pressure on members to cary out the shunning.
why is this necessary if they truly have faith in god and that he sees all and nothing is hidden from his view?
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So basically, it's all for show
by jeremiah18:5-10 injw's claim to be god-fearing, faithful, spiritual people with a unique special personal relationship with god (jehovah).. yet, so much of what they do is just fro show, an outward appearance of holiness and faithfulness:.
) shunning- an organization-sanctioned shunning policy publicly "outs" the shunned and puts pressure on members to cary out the shunning.
why is this necessary if they truly have faith in god and that he sees all and nothing is hidden from his view?
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jeremiah18:5-10
Wouldn't Satan and his hordes of demons just sit back and chuckle at the vast "success" the WTS is enjoying with every annual report? His knees must be shaking with fear, I mean a whopping 0.1% of the earth's population and it never eclipses that ratio?
If Satan really exists, he must find all of this to be hilarious.
corrected the ratio
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So basically, it's all for show
by jeremiah18:5-10 injw's claim to be god-fearing, faithful, spiritual people with a unique special personal relationship with god (jehovah).. yet, so much of what they do is just fro show, an outward appearance of holiness and faithfulness:.
) shunning- an organization-sanctioned shunning policy publicly "outs" the shunned and puts pressure on members to cary out the shunning.
why is this necessary if they truly have faith in god and that he sees all and nothing is hidden from his view?
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jeremiah18:5-10
Jw's claim to be god-fearing, faithful, spiritual people with a unique special personal relationship with God (Jehovah).
Yet, so much of what they do is just fro show, an outward appearance of holiness and faithfulness:
1.) Shunning- an organization-sanctioned shunning policy publicly "outs" the shunned and puts pressure on members to cary out the shunning. Why is this necessary if they truly have faith in God and that He sees all and nothing is hidden from His view? If He is judging each person individually on their own merit and reading their hearts, why the need for a public, organization-sanctioned and enforced action?
2.) Reporting time- JW's are required to report their time and a record is kept for them personally and consulted as an estimation of their spirituality and faithfulness. Why is this necessary if God sees all of their hard work and observes their efforts at sharing their faith? Why doesn't He just read hearts and actually guide these men by Holy Spirit w/o the use of statistics. Did statistics play any role in God's using Samuel to select David for anointing? Quite the opposite actually. Where is God's involvement?
3.)Annual Report-Each year the WTS publishes and touts their "success" in an annual service report documenting their placements, attendance, hours and money spent in service to God and organization growth. What purpose does this serve other than to try to present physical evidence of their being "blessed by God"? Why not let God do the evaluating and trust Him to guide and bless? What happened in the past (biblical times) when leaders of "God's earthly organization" tried to numerically value the size and wealth of the nation?
4.)Grooming rules-JW's prohibit/discourage the growth of facial hair (beards and goatees) and look down on and ridicule those who choose to wear it. Also require and stipulate silly dress codes for their members at meetings, service, even during personal activities (during assemblies and conventions). Who are they concerned with offending? is it God? No they are concerned and focused on men that's it.
There are more examples, feel free to add to the list, all of which undermine their claims of spirituality, faithfulness and trust in God. It's sickening to me and laughable.
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Agents of Reality came knocking on my door today ...
by 00DAD intwo agents of reality came by my house this morning.
no, i'm not talking about jehovah's witnesses.
those are agents of unreality in case you're unclear on the subject!
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jeremiah18:5-10
00DAD- very good points, I had not thought about this before. It's remarkable how close-minded all of are by nature. At the same time, opening our minds up is so liberating, while also scary, since you risk losing grip on the only reality you know. Geez so many things aboout religion, specifically JW's are eerily similar to the concepts contained in the Matrix!
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They want it both ways
by jeremiah18:5-10 inseveral years ago the wts stopped announcing individuals who were df'd as, "so-and-so has been disfellowshipped" and instead began announcing, "so-and-so is no longer one of jehovah's witnesses".
this seems to be rather important to me.
undoubtedly this change was fueled by legal issues raised by someone who was df'd and impacted in some way perhaps financially.
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jeremiah18:5-10
Thanks for the reference Bobcat. It doesn't seem that it specifically got discussed very much in that thread aside from the fact that some are selective about their shunning.
Someone in that thread mentioned that there's a correlation between the strictness of the shunning and the closeness of the relationship prior to the DFing. I think thats probably true.
When my older brother was DF'd [for 15+years] he was in and out of jail from the time he was 20 until he was 42, my parents always maintained contact and would help him as much as they could anytime he was out. Although this help always came with conditions and was a way to try and hold him hostage and force his "return".
With myself, a JW parents' wet dream most of my life, I apparently so broke their hearts with my fall from grace that they just can't stomach the thought of interaction. It seems they have a significant double-standard and it would drive me nuts if I hadn't emotionally cut them off. Doing this allows me to function w/o depression, but clearly it also robs me, my wife, and especially our kids of a relationship that is normal, natural, and essential to life.
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They want it both ways
by jeremiah18:5-10 inseveral years ago the wts stopped announcing individuals who were df'd as, "so-and-so has been disfellowshipped" and instead began announcing, "so-and-so is no longer one of jehovah's witnesses".
this seems to be rather important to me.
undoubtedly this change was fueled by legal issues raised by someone who was df'd and impacted in some way perhaps financially.
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jeremiah18:5-10
More specifically, if the former or current elders on this site who were serving as elders at the time of this change, could shed light on when this announcement change occurred and whether it was accompanied with an explanation and whether it seemed to be significant to you at the time.
I can't remember who the former elders are but I think, 00DAD, JWfacts, Atlantis, EE, I know there are more, but if you guys recall anything, could you enlighten me?
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They want it both ways
by jeremiah18:5-10 inseveral years ago the wts stopped announcing individuals who were df'd as, "so-and-so has been disfellowshipped" and instead began announcing, "so-and-so is no longer one of jehovah's witnesses".
this seems to be rather important to me.
undoubtedly this change was fueled by legal issues raised by someone who was df'd and impacted in some way perhaps financially.
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jeremiah18:5-10
Yes I read the quote in the Shepherd book, but my thought was that this surely was a significant change when it happened. I was appointed an elder shortly after a revision to the "elder book" and never saw the one before it. Now the book has been revised again. I would think that some explanation would have been given to the elders, either by letter or at a KM school.
My reason for wanting to know is because I'm contemplating using this reasoning with both my parents and my wifes' parents. Of course if I were to use it, most likely they would be close-minded and not listen or reason on it.
It just seems to be worth reasoning on and discussing a little.
I realize that most JW's don't care about a difference or at least don't stop to think about it. Many with DF'd family members might actually care about it and perhaps would love to find an excuse to be able to treat ones like myself differently. Perhaps it would ease their conscience on the matter somewhat.
Then again perhaps I'm delusional and am just experiencing wishful-thinking LOL.
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They want it both ways
by jeremiah18:5-10 inseveral years ago the wts stopped announcing individuals who were df'd as, "so-and-so has been disfellowshipped" and instead began announcing, "so-and-so is no longer one of jehovah's witnesses".
this seems to be rather important to me.
undoubtedly this change was fueled by legal issues raised by someone who was df'd and impacted in some way perhaps financially.
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jeremiah18:5-10
Several years ago the WTS stopped announcing individuals who were DF'd as, "so-and-so has been disfellowshipped" and instead began announcing, "so-and-so is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses"
This seems to be rather important to me. Undoubtedly this change was fueled by legal issues raised by someone who was DF'd and impacted in some way perhaps financially. I cannot locate any specific reference in LTBOE's outlining specific reasons for the change, if someone can direct me to such, I would appreciate it.
It seems to me that this more generic announcement is to disguise or even water-down what has happened and to somehow reduce liability. However, the effect is still the same-ostracism. The elders and the publishers all consider it the same and treat the person who is "no longer one of JW's" the same.
It seems to me that there is a significant difference between being a DF'd witness and "no longer one of JW's"
A DF'd Witness is being "disciplined" with some hope of return. A person "no longer one of JW's" is out from under their "umbrella of authority" and should be treated as any other "worldly" person.
Am I way off here? Is this really insignificant?
As a DF'd person with many family members still in, obviously it matters to me personally. My announcement was "no longer one of JW's". It seems to me that the WTS wants it both ways and, as with all things, the "flock" doesn't get the difference.
Perhaps this has been covered in a topic previously, if so I would appreciate being directed to it. I also would appreciate some dialouge on this if you good people wouldn't mind too much.
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jeremiah18:5-10
I am 41, my wife [Enlightened Ephesian] is 43.
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Poll---How Many Are Facebook Users & On Average How Often Are You On That Site?
by minimus ini have facebook.
i probably get on it 4 or 5 days a week, typically to see what's going on with family and those i know.
plus pictures!.
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jeremiah18:5-10
I'm on facebook a couple of times daily via my phone. Like to keep track of my friends and family. I've finally weeded out all of my former jw friends.