Posts by cog_survivor

21

Conversation with a JW coworker

by MrFreeze in

so i started working at my new job in december.

there is one person in my department who is a jw.

then there is another jw who works in my building, who just started going to my old hall about 6 months ago.

cog_survivor

I know it's hard to bite back a reply. I've made too many comebacks to count in dealing with people who have managed to get under my skin.

But I think the best way to deal is to be happy in your life. People still in want to believe their own fairytale that those who leave are miserable human beings. Any nasty retaliation is only going to confirm that belief and make him more of a self righteous jerk. it will also give him a nice chunk of gossip to take back to the herd.

I'm with Mrs. J. Keep it business related and cordial. Besides giving you the moral highground, it may, with any luck, puzzle the heck out of him :)

211

New light Watchtower magazine leaked from organization weeks ahead of general release

by cedars in

http://jwsurvey.org/governing-body-2/new-light-watchtower-magazine-leaked-from-organization-weeks-ahead-of-general-release.

if doctrinal explanations are missing from the article, it is because they are also missing from the magazine.. i would like to give my thanks again to my source for supplying me with the magazine article weeks ahead of its scheduled release.

it showed remarkable courage, because risks were taken.

cog_survivor

Thanks TQO! So it will be interesting to see how those who thought they themeselves, or dear ol' grandad was one of the 144,000 will react once this is released.

211

New light Watchtower magazine leaked from organization weeks ahead of general release

by cedars in

http://jwsurvey.org/governing-body-2/new-light-watchtower-magazine-leaked-from-organization-weeks-ahead-of-general-release.

if doctrinal explanations are missing from the article, it is because they are also missing from the magazine.. i would like to give my thanks again to my source for supplying me with the magazine article weeks ahead of its scheduled release.

it showed remarkable courage, because risks were taken.

cog_survivor

Just a question from an outsider here: How were the FDS and the 144,000 related?

Was it required that the FDS be part of the 144,000? or the 144,000 were the FDS throughout history?

Or is it a non issue?

The reason I wonder is because of those who are or have been partakers. If someone is going to get ticked because they are no longer part of a specific "in" group.

55

The Bible---Have You Watched It On The History Channel?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i must admit, i am a sucker for bible movies.

i do not get the history channel on my cable service but i've heard good things about the series.. have you seen it?.

are you interested in these types of programs..

cog_survivor

I've been watching it in bits and pieces. I rather like it but I don't expect accuracy. It's rather like watching a movie then going to read the book. Nine times out of ten the book contains a lot of stuff left out. But reading the book after seeing the film can give you a pretty good plot outline.

No matter how you look at the Bible (historically, culturally, spiritually) it is an incredibly rich mine for stories about human beings at a certain time in our history and how they perceived the divine.

Moses is definitely not Charleton Heston. He looks a lot like a smelly goat herder. I also thought it rather clever how the genesis story was not re-enacted but presented as a story that Noah told his family in the ark.

43

May 15 2013 WT: "REAL elders skip meals and lose sleep!"

by cedars in

finally we have the society's expectations of elders in print.. this is from page 9 of the may 15th study edition.... "as indicated by the experiences of the apostle paul, our ministry may result in sleepless nights and times without food.

(2 cor.

6:5) these expressions paint a vivid picture of self-sacrifice and may well remind us of pioneers who give their ministry first place in life while supporting themselves financially.

cog_survivor

Couple of things bug me about the article cited:

1) Do the readers actually look up the scriptures in context?. Paul is trying to get people to play nice because he went through so much suffering. He doesn't say to copy his behavior.

2) That last line is absolutely manipulative towards the sick and elderly. How many pain and disease wracked people will still try to drag themselves to meetings because of this type of talk?

23

Does the WTBS emphasize these two verses for control?

by cog_survivor in

something i came to understand that the worldwide church of god did effectively was to cut people off from from their feelings and intellect in favor of the "appropriate" thoughts and feelings.. how they did this was by frequently emphasizing these two verses:.

proverbs 3:5 - trust in the lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.. jeremiah 17:9 - the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?.

by means of these two verses i was taught not to trust myself with regards to either my ability to reason or if my gut was telling me something was wrong.. i was wondering if these two verses were emphasized for jws as well..

cog_survivor

Hi Tiki,

The Phildelphia Church of God is an offshoot of the Worldwide Church of God after Herbert Armstrong's death.

I'm so sorry to hear that your husband is getting drawn into their ranks. I'm going to strongly suggest that you and your husband read some of the information posted here: http://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/. I don't entirely agree with their viewpoints on spritual matters but as far as the facts presented, they appear to be pretty accurate.

One thing I can tell you from personal experience is that the Philedelphia Church of God will expect the following from your husband if he joins:

Keeping the Old Testament Holydays (there are seven with two involving week long experiences)
Keeping of the Saturday Sabbath meaning no work (including household chores and errands)
1st tithe off your gross income to be sent to the church
2nd tithe off your gross income to be saved to observe the Holydays (namely the Feast of Taberhacles)
3rd tithe off your gross income to be paid every third year to help support the "poor".
Additional offerings on the Holydays and begging letters for additional money
Changes to eating habits (no pork, no shellfish) During the weeklong celebration of the Days of Unleavened bread, no foods with leavening included
No questioning of the leadership - Ever
No association with anyone who was a former member or one of the so called other "splinter groups" that formed after Herbert Armstrong's death - Ever
Contant Haranguing about the end times and how close they are yet at the same time self aggrandizing building programs
Scriptures taken continually out of context to support the leaderships agenda

Failure to perform will result in disfellowshipping

Herbert Armstrong is known to be a plagiarist based on his writings and supporting evidence found elsewhere. There is strong evidence that he molested his own daughter repeatedly. (When he divorced his second wife, some newspapers stated that there was a prior agreement between him and his second wife regarding his incestuous relationship with his daughter. Significantly, no lawsuits were filed. The one person who they attempted to sue was not sued for slander but for breach of confidentiality. This man was at one time a minister in Herbert Armstrong's church. The lawsuit was not successful). He openly lived in a self agrandizing, extravagent manner. He was constantly bragging about his accomplishments by saying what God was doing through him or how he had been gifted by God. This wwas while some of his followers were so poor they couldn't make ends meet due to his crippling tithe requirements.

Gerald Flurry is definitely a hardline, old school follower of Herbert Armstrong. He spent time collect Herbert Armstrong "artefacts" to try and recreate the life he knew when Herbert Armstrong was alive.

Pterist - I'm not much into Rowan Atkinson but I really did like "Keeping up Appearances"

23

Does the WTBS emphasize these two verses for control?

by cog_survivor in

something i came to understand that the worldwide church of god did effectively was to cut people off from from their feelings and intellect in favor of the "appropriate" thoughts and feelings.. how they did this was by frequently emphasizing these two verses:.

proverbs 3:5 - trust in the lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.. jeremiah 17:9 - the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?.

by means of these two verses i was taught not to trust myself with regards to either my ability to reason or if my gut was telling me something was wrong.. i was wondering if these two verses were emphasized for jws as well..

cog_survivor

No I hadn't Blondie. Although it is interesting to note that Herbert Armstrong issued a statement saying he had never been a Jehovah's Witness nor a Seventh Day Adventist.

Here's a link to a pdf of his 1956 Plain Truth Magazine where he gets huffy over this:

http://www.herbert-armstrong.org/Plain%20Truth%201950s/Plain%20Truth%201956%20(Vol%20XXI%20No%2012)%20Dec.pdf

Although he claims to have never been a Seventh Day Adventist, he was listed as one of their 70 elders at one point and pastored a SDA congregation. He was such a liar about things that its hard to say whether he appropriated some of his theology from the JWs or not.

He often plagariazed material and claim it was unique revelation God made to him. When a former friend from the SDA camp called him out on it, he claimed that when he read the article God revealed it to him to be true. Of course he made no reference to the source of this "revelation" when publishing it to his own people. He made it sound as though God had all but whispered it into his ear.

23

Does the WTBS emphasize these two verses for control?

by cog_survivor in

something i came to understand that the worldwide church of god did effectively was to cut people off from from their feelings and intellect in favor of the "appropriate" thoughts and feelings.. how they did this was by frequently emphasizing these two verses:.

proverbs 3:5 - trust in the lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.. jeremiah 17:9 - the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?.

by means of these two verses i was taught not to trust myself with regards to either my ability to reason or if my gut was telling me something was wrong.. i was wondering if these two verses were emphasized for jws as well..

cog_survivor

That's a good question Apognophos.

I don't know how it is with the Catholics, but I don't find it to be the case with what I've experienced in visiting my Southern Baptist family's churches or with the Episcopalians.

That's not to say they don't have some beliefs that some may find off putting. But with my Baptist family members, I find they tend towards the belief that Jesus lives in the heart of believer. Therefore to not listen to your heart or be tender in your conscience is like not paying attention to Jesus. The believing individual is fully capable of being led by Christ. There's a bit more to it than that of course because the believer is expected to be discerning but there is a lot less interference in this matter than there is in a cult.

The Episcopalians are seen as somewhat soft on sin by the more fundamentalist groups, but they respect the fact that everyone has a unique journey with God and are careful not to overly tamper with that.

That's as far as my personal experience goes with religion outside the cult. But even so, I think it is safe to say that a wide variance can be found. Even to some extent within the groups I mention.

23

Does the WTBS emphasize these two verses for control?

by cog_survivor in

something i came to understand that the worldwide church of god did effectively was to cut people off from from their feelings and intellect in favor of the "appropriate" thoughts and feelings.. how they did this was by frequently emphasizing these two verses:.

proverbs 3:5 - trust in the lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.. jeremiah 17:9 - the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?.

by means of these two verses i was taught not to trust myself with regards to either my ability to reason or if my gut was telling me something was wrong.. i was wondering if these two verses were emphasized for jws as well..

cog_survivor

It looks like there was a fair amount of overlap in abusive twisting of the scriptures. It is so strange (but again perhaps not) when my developing critical thinking skills unearth some new way in my life was controlled. Despite the fact I've been out of the group for close to 10 years now.

Blondie: Those quotes could have come straight from sermons I heard when I was a child. I love how you are able to go back and cite source material. I threw out all of my old literature to try and purge it from my life. Problem is that it is harder to purge from the head It isn't so much that I believe that way anymore but some of my knee jerk reactions tend to surface now and again. Much to my chagrin. Anyway there are plenty of Herbert Armstrong worshippers who have archived his materials on the internet so if I need to verify that 'yes' something did happen, there's evidence.

Pterist: What you say about the reaction by the wcg elders in Florida was pretty typical. I was raised in a fairly conservative area (Indiana, not England. I just watch too much bbc and pbs. I also joined the Episcopal church a couple of years ago so some of the anglican phrases have probably rubbed off on me) The area I was in while in WCG had a pastor who couldn't go along with all the changes from on high and so there was a huge amount of confusion happening. Things got really messy.

NeverKnew: There is a group out of Korea that has some really uncanny resemblances to the Worldwide Church of God based out of California. I didn't hear about them until about a year ago. When I looked them up I found too many things in common to be coincidental. I suspect that their leader had some association with Herbert Armstrong (the leader of WCG). But what I have no idea. I'm so sorry your niece got sucked into their cult.

Lost Generation, Ignat, Fed-up, and KurtBethel; Those verses are familar as well. Conform or die was the message we got continually.

Thinkaboutit,00Dad, and Clarity: I totally get that. Been there and even had a lousy youth camp teeshirt for doing it.

23

Does the WTBS emphasize these two verses for control?

by cog_survivor in

something i came to understand that the worldwide church of god did effectively was to cut people off from from their feelings and intellect in favor of the "appropriate" thoughts and feelings.. how they did this was by frequently emphasizing these two verses:.

proverbs 3:5 - trust in the lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.. jeremiah 17:9 - the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?.

by means of these two verses i was taught not to trust myself with regards to either my ability to reason or if my gut was telling me something was wrong.. i was wondering if these two verses were emphasized for jws as well..

cog_survivor

Thanks for the reply Ding:)

I was curious as to whether this was a common use of these verses in bible based cults.

The leaders wiggled around it was by saying that they were given an extra helping of God's Holy Spirit beyond the average layperson (WCG saw the HS as God's power). Herbert Armstrong claimed to receive relevation from God that no one else received by the power of the Holy Spirit. He covered his behind by saying it was from the scripture and that the Holy Spirit opened his eyes to see the truths he found.

Of course he was a liar as he cobbled most of his teachings from multiple sources.