@Billy: usually those saying they're humble are the ones that really aren't. "When it comes to humility, we're #1", yeah, wouldn't surprise me if that is how they think. If they really were humble it would be more like "well, we have a lot to learn and still need to work on our humility". Fistfights? Perhaps they'll knock each other out and cause permanent damage? Oops, how politically incorrect on my part, to think such thoughts.
Sauerkraut
JoinedPosts by Sauerkraut
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10
"CULTIVATE THE SPIRIT OF A LESSER ONE"
by braincleaned inaahhh... ya gotta hand it to the wts, they sure know how to mind-control the flock into getting them to follow unquestionably.
the nov. 25th watchtower is brilliant in encouraging the sheep to be even lesser than they already are!.
as they admit, "the greek word translated lesser one means someone who is modest, humble, lowly, insignificant, or of little esteem and influence.".
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10
"CULTIVATE THE SPIRIT OF A LESSER ONE"
by braincleaned inaahhh... ya gotta hand it to the wts, they sure know how to mind-control the flock into getting them to follow unquestionably.
the nov. 25th watchtower is brilliant in encouraging the sheep to be even lesser than they already are!.
as they admit, "the greek word translated lesser one means someone who is modest, humble, lowly, insignificant, or of little esteem and influence.".
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Sauerkraut
If only the Governing Body members would take that to heart. But we could wait for the heat death of the Universe to take place before that would ever happen.
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Jason BeDuhn regarding Revelation 7 and the Great Crowd
by Sauerkraut ina while ago i sent an e-mail to jason beduhn, that the society is quite fond of.
they like to quote him in publications.
so when i started researching the great crowd and the accuracy of the earthly hope doctrine i thought i might write him and ask him what the exact meaning of "before the throne" (revelation 7:9) and "temple" (7:15) is.
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Sauerkraut
From what I heard, on this year's District Conventions JWs were discouraged from learning and looking into the original Greek of the Scriptures. I wasn't there (fortunately!) so I can't say how exactly it was phrased and explained, but it's no wonder they don't want people analyzing the original Greek.
@Weana: feel free to ask him. I certainly don't know what he says about that.
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I was happy as a JW! How did I end up here?( 4)
by MC RubberMallet incontinued from http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/239443/1/i-was-happy-as-a-jw-how-did-i-end-up-here-pt-3.
i start getting calls from elders in my hall.
i never answered them.
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Sauerkraut
Elder1: We will be expecting your letter.
That's a great example of shepherding there, I'm impressed. It's funny how they expect people to do their dirty work for them. Push you to get out, then they'll slander you later on. At that point I would have told them that I expect them to leave. Their motivation clearly wasn't a good one.
Elder 2: We can just announce you as not being one of Jehovah's Witnesses. We are not disfellowshipping you.
He must be living in the past, when disassociating and disfellowshipping didn't have the same consequences.
I realized in conversation, BOTH brothers were 1975 apologists. "The society never wrote that!" & "You weren't born so you have no idea!"
Not long ago I had a discussion about that with a friend? who also said to me that back then the Society never said anything about the end coming in 1975, I told him to check the library. In a few minutes you can see the preposterous statements they made in the late sixties. This kind of ignorance is crazy. You don't have to have been alive then to know how badly they messed up. Worst part is how the Society never took any responsibility for it, just blamed it on the overeager publishers.
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Jason BeDuhn regarding Revelation 7 and the Great Crowd
by Sauerkraut ina while ago i sent an e-mail to jason beduhn, that the society is quite fond of.
they like to quote him in publications.
so when i started researching the great crowd and the accuracy of the earthly hope doctrine i thought i might write him and ask him what the exact meaning of "before the throne" (revelation 7:9) and "temple" (7:15) is.
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Sauerkraut
Designs: So if you are a Christian do you believe you will spend eternity in heaven or will you return to the earth.
Good question. It does seem to me that Christians go to heaven. Jesus said he would prepare a place for his followers. But there are many things we just don't know for sure right now, and perhaps won't know for a long time. There are lots of conflicting views. We don't even know what "heaven(s)" means, how to picture them. What I do know is: the WT teaching about the Great Crowd is false. I see things a bit more relaxed right now, I don't try to forcefully get answers to every question, I'm keeping an open mind and am just glad that I started questioning many WT beliefs. We can easily get lost in all kinds of doctrinal debates and forget about what's important- to live a good life, try to make the best of it, try to be there for others and make our surroundings a little better, as far as we personally can. At least that's how I see it.
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I was HAPPY as a JW! How did I end up here? Pt 3
by MC RubberMallet incontinued from... http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/239394/2/i-was-happy-as-a-jw-how-did-i-end-up-here-pt-2.
i mentioned how i was happy as a jw.
but that night, that very night after the conversation happened, there was a real feeling of relief.
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Sauerkraut
Mc RubberMallet: thanks for sharing your story. I really enjoy reading it. The "wait on Jehovah" attitude is so ridiculous, aggravating even.
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Jason BeDuhn regarding Revelation 7 and the Great Crowd
by Sauerkraut ina while ago i sent an e-mail to jason beduhn, that the society is quite fond of.
they like to quote him in publications.
so when i started researching the great crowd and the accuracy of the earthly hope doctrine i thought i might write him and ask him what the exact meaning of "before the throne" (revelation 7:9) and "temple" (7:15) is.
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Sauerkraut
I'm very glad I could contribute a little.
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Jason BeDuhn regarding Revelation 7 and the Great Crowd
by Sauerkraut ina while ago i sent an e-mail to jason beduhn, that the society is quite fond of.
they like to quote him in publications.
so when i started researching the great crowd and the accuracy of the earthly hope doctrine i thought i might write him and ask him what the exact meaning of "before the throne" (revelation 7:9) and "temple" (7:15) is.
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Sauerkraut
@ Raymond Frantz and Jwfacts: I forwarded the e-mail to both of you. Hope it helps.
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Jason BeDuhn regarding Revelation 7 and the Great Crowd
by Sauerkraut ina while ago i sent an e-mail to jason beduhn, that the society is quite fond of.
they like to quote him in publications.
so when i started researching the great crowd and the accuracy of the earthly hope doctrine i thought i might write him and ask him what the exact meaning of "before the throne" (revelation 7:9) and "temple" (7:15) is.
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Sauerkraut
Thanks for the replies. I had already forgotten about my e-mail to Jason BeDuhn, so I was very suprised when I saw his response in my inbox.
@Raymond Frantz: I'll gladly make the e-mail an attachment, but don't know how. I'Ve made a screenshot and uploaded it here: http://pichost.de/images/2012/10/04/QD5E9.png Perhaps someone can explain what ways there are to attach the e-mail here. Thanks.
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36
Jason BeDuhn regarding Revelation 7 and the Great Crowd
by Sauerkraut ina while ago i sent an e-mail to jason beduhn, that the society is quite fond of.
they like to quote him in publications.
so when i started researching the great crowd and the accuracy of the earthly hope doctrine i thought i might write him and ask him what the exact meaning of "before the throne" (revelation 7:9) and "temple" (7:15) is.
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Sauerkraut
A while ago I sent an e-mail to Jason BeDuhn, that the Society is quite fond of. They like to quote him in publications. So when I started researching the Great Crowd and the accuracy of the earthly hope doctrine I thought I might write him and ask him what the exact meaning of "before the throne" (Revelation 7:9) and "temple" (7:15) is. Now his opinion certainly won't end all discussion, but it may be food for thought for Witnesses if they are confronted with the opinion of an expert that publications have quoted before, in a favorable and respectful manner.
Yesterday I received a reply and this is it:
"Dear Mr. Xxxxxx.
Thank you for your message, and please forgive my long delay in responding. I have only recently returned from a sabbatical.
Regarding Rev. 7:9, the word enwpion [w = omega] means face to face with someone, or immediately in front of something. While it is true that etymologically it is related to the idea of "in sight," it is not used with this specific meaning, but always in the sense of "right in front of"
In 7.15, the term is naos, which indeed means the inner chamber or sanctuary, the main "dwelling" of the deity, not the outer courtyard.
This appears to be another case (I'm familiar with a few more) where a forced distinction made in JW theology between a small group in heaven and a multitude on earth has biased the translation and interpretation of passages in Revelation.
I hope these answers help.
best wishes,
Jason BeDuhn Professor of Religious Studies Northern Arizona University"
