Posts by Xanthippe

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Xanthippe

Xanthippe : " Ah yes JWs separate spirit and soul"
The Rebel: The O.P is " Origin of Life" but the question is raised on a ex JWs site, and I think comparatively few exiting JWs, have thought any deeper on the " Origin of Life" than watchtower literature. My point is for many, you leave the organisation on reasons of concience,then you scrabble to maintain your family connections, and then you get bewildered by the " Origin of Life."

The Rebel, I'm trying to get a grip on what theists think now about the origin of life to be able to speculate how they would react to scientist finding how it originated in this planet. I think cofty is saying the big problem for creationists is they can't accept evolution without having the Origin of Life explained.

So is this life force that comes from God passed on from Adam and Eve or what? If that can be replicated by scientists (Or shown to have developed without need for God) then he's redundant.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Xanthippe

Spirit pneuma is impersonal life-force. Soul nephesh is the living being.

Ah yes JWs separate soul and spirit. I remember now. They need to prove the Bible isn't talking about immortality but eternal life on Earth so they separate the two words, soul is the whole person and spirit is the life-force. I may be wrong but I don't think any other Christian religion does that.
I suppose this affects how theists would answer the op because if they're not JWs they probably see the spirit/ soul being the part that survives death and goes to heaven rather than being the life force that God put into cells and cannot be replicated by scientists.

But then do they believe the life force, the élan vital, the 'ghost in the machine' is passed on from parent to child and originated with God putting it into Adam and Eve? I don't know not having attended a church after leaving the JWs.

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Xanthippe

What is the "spirit" the returns to god at death according to the Watchtower?

I thought JWs said this refers to the belief that the only hope for a resurrection of an individual lies with Jehovah. That he keeps in his memory the personality and memories of the individual so that he can bring him back to life. I remember they were very keen to ensure that nobody interpret this as a belief in a spirit or soul being immortal and going to heaven but the person is 'asleep' awaiting the resurrection.

I do remember they said God created Adam and then breathed into his nostrils the breath of life which refers to some kind of animating force that only comes from God. Perhaps this is what cofty is remembering. They used Ancient Greek pneuma, breath of life, I remember. Which is confusing because Judaism and Christianity use this word to describe the soul or spirit but JWs are adamant it doesn't mean that.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneuma

How to untangle what they believe when their ideas are so confused!

20

If anyone claimed that god speaks to them personally.....

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

they'd be viewed as completely mentally ill and laughed at.. so, how do the governing body get away with it?.

Xanthippe

They get away with it by never admitting it happens yet dancing around the question of how big J guides their teachings. They are not inspired, the Watchtower is not inspired and yet if you deviate from their teachings one iota you can be disfellowshipped.

They really need someone to pin them down and say are you speaking for God or not? So how does god tell you what to say? But they'd be thrown out like Franz if they did that.

23

Undecided

by Disassociated Lady 2 in

i have recently been disfellowshipped (after being reinstated in march).

i saw a group of jws gathered in the town car park yesterday.

they seemed startled when they recognised my car and talked amongst themselves giving one another a satisfied grin!

Xanthippe

It's up to you but I wouldn't give them the time of day. This tiny little cult is really beneath your notice so I would advise get out in the world, make friends, join a college course, volunteer, go on Meetup.com. Try and forget these ridiculous people. Show them they have no power over you by having a great life and leaving them behind. Believe me you will still be talked about .......... I saw her at the college, hotel, travel agent, wow she looked great and so happy ............. All the best to you.

5

Happy Birthday Son

by azor in

jw
friends

my son turns 9 on monday however we are having his 2nd birthday party today.

he is so excited.

it brings a huge smile to his mom and dads faces.. every day is a blessing.

Xanthippe

Happy Birthday Adin

405

Origin of Life

by cofty in

in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?

as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.

there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.

Xanthippe

As a former christian I would have believed that it can't happen because I viewed life as something that only emanated from god. Some believers in this thread seem less sure of that.

Perhaps born again evangelical Christians see things differently to mainstream Christians. I found them to be different to the mainstream on FS, a bit OTT actually. One got on his knees begging me to be born again. Time for a sharp exit.

There are many Christian viewpoints about the origin of life I would think.

30

Why is it so hurtful to be shunned? Why object to it?

by stuckinarut2 in

it seems like many feel hurt or saddened by the practice of shunning by witnesses.. yes, when ones who we were close to, perhaps family or ones we thought were close friends choose to follow the warped directions of the society, it may seem hurtful.. but really, our reaction is up to us.

the fact is, these ones have shown that in reality, their love for us was never real or genuine.

no, those relationships were superficial and lacking in substance.

Xanthippe

Stuck I don't think we want to return to an abusive situation but we are not reptiles we are mammals. We are raised in families, be they small or large and we feel a need for this natural setting that we are born into.

On special occasions like the birth of a child or a graduation we want to share it with our families but if they're in a cult and don't care about us it's a sadness. When you've been out as long as I have it's not devastating but it's just subtracts something from our lives that would be there but for the influence of a stupid cult.

18

Undeserved kindness

by life is to short in

just a side note that i found interesting and sort of upsetting, the wt that the jw's will study on sunday the 18th of september has the words undeserved kindness mentioned 50 in just 19 paragraphs.

really they need to beat it into their people that they are very worthless and do no deserve anything from god?

so much so that they use the words over and over, don't they.. lits .

Xanthippe

Using their own logic, why wouldn't God be kind to the humans he created? They're still blaming us for the actions of a mythological pair in Eden, but by their own logic sin is inherited and therefore not our fault.

Humans are not wilfully doing anything to prevent God being kind to them if sin is an inherited trait like eye colour, so why is god's kindness undeserved?

it seems to me this god they've 'created' who thinks his children don't deserve anything, not even love, is their excuse for rejecting their own children if they don't obey this religion.

11

Shunning vs. Silent Treatment

by raven in

i was thinking this morning in context with the shunning practice- which we all know is a degrading and abusive routine carried out among all brainwashed jw's to those who have sinned/left the org etc.. so with that in mind, how does shunning differ from the silent treatment to jw's?

both are similar in definition... silent treatment.

: an act of completely ignoring a person or thing by resort to silence especially as a means of expressing contempt or disapproval.shun, shunning: persistently avoid, ignore, or reject (someone or something) through antipathy or caution.based on jw teachings which i stupidly accepted back when i was asleep and under mind control, i didn't give it two thoughts on how both acts are related.. i do remember an article in a wt which spoke of how the silent treatment is a harsh and abusive form of discipline, but then they twist it back and claim that shunning is a loving provision?

Xanthippe

Yeah Raven it's an ancient practice, shun, exclude, octracise. Ostracise comes from the practice in Ancient Greece of writing a person's name on a pot sherd, an ostracon, and counting up the votes to decide to exile an unpopular citizen from Athens for five or ten years.

People separated from their community in ancient times could die. It's still a punishment for those seen as not worthy to be included in a family or community. A primitive practice from a primitive time.