Posts by Xanthippe

74

Was/Is Religion Useful Even if it isn't True?

by cofty in

in his book "the righteous mind" jonathan haidt proposes that religion served - and continues to serve an important role in bringing about cohesion within non-kin groups.. to put it very briefly haidt advocates a form of group selection but only insofar as it applies to humans.

our unique brains have made it possible for us to cooperate in groups in ways that are impossible for all non-human species.

despite their intelligence you will never see two chimps helping each other to carry the same log or one chimp pulling down a branch while the other removes the fruit.. his description is that humans are 90% chimp and 10% bee.

Xanthippe

If our brains are descended from ancestors whose brains tended towards groupish ritual that would explain a lot about our world.

Yes it would. Anglican funerals are a good example. It may be just high church but the vicar was dressed in bright green robes and walked in saying at the top of his voice 'I am the resurrection and the light'. I nearly jumped out of my skin because of course we didn't see him enter as all the pews faced the front. Then the whole church reciting the Lord's Prayer. Creepy!

I wonder what evolutionary blip has caused some of us to hate groupish ritual. Is it because we were raised JW with its lack of ritual or are people attracted to the new religions because they dislike group ritual. Personally I hated the Memorial, the only groupish ritual we had. Although I suppose you could class singing together as a group ritual. I quite enjoyed that especially at conventions. Now people join and sing in choirs without religion, I see them advertised on town notice boards. We still want to do things in groups even without religion.

74

Was/Is Religion Useful Even if it isn't True?

by cofty in

in his book "the righteous mind" jonathan haidt proposes that religion served - and continues to serve an important role in bringing about cohesion within non-kin groups.. to put it very briefly haidt advocates a form of group selection but only insofar as it applies to humans.

our unique brains have made it possible for us to cooperate in groups in ways that are impossible for all non-human species.

despite their intelligence you will never see two chimps helping each other to carry the same log or one chimp pulling down a branch while the other removes the fruit.. his description is that humans are 90% chimp and 10% bee.

Xanthippe

When hunter-gatherers settled down and developed agriculture they were beset by the problems of all farmers, drought, floods, pests and animal diseases. Which explains why ancient peoples had a deity and ritual for everything in the agricultural life, gods for protection of crops, gods for appeasing the weather, gods to watch over their animals and harvest festivals to give thanks. Without science they were at the mercy of the climate and biological forces so they sought help from the supernatural.

13

Way to make me look stupid . . .

by Coded Logic in

when the arc made their recommendations to the society last year i genuinely thought we'd see some real changes.

oh sure, i expected a lot of feet dragging, double talk, and general nonsense - but at the end of the day i was certain the society would do what they legally had to and then run around claiming:.

) these new policies and procedures aren't really new we've always done them.

Xanthippe

When I saw Jackson rippling with arrogance it confirmed to me that it's type of insanity these people have. They really believe God will protect them even if they refuse to comply with government directives and continue to harbour criminals within their organisation. Unfortunately once ordinary men have millions of dollars at their disposal and millions of people under their control they think they're indestructible.

27

Talked to a JW at a literature stand today

by nevermind in

guys,.

i need your help in trying to wrap my head around this strange experience i had today talking with a jw lady sitting at a literature table in a busy outdoor shopping center.. i'm a very shy person, but i always wanted to ask these jws at their literature stands questions to start them thinking about the validity of watchtower teaching.

i finally mustered my strength today to talk to this jw lady.

Xanthippe

Hi and welcome nevermind. I think you did really well talking to this JW especially as a shy person. I have seen them in my town but I haven't walked up to them yet.

Venus started a thread about higher education and there's a link in it provided by Wifibandit showing a letter to bodies of elders. It included a section on higher education which makes it clear that if an elder pursues higher education or let's his children do so he can be removed from being an elder at the next circuit visit.

You have to realise that what they say in print and what everyone understands the GB to mean are two different things. Reading between the lines it's quite clear that although they state an elder might be able to go to college and still get to meetings, FS and be in good standing the suggestion is if he misses odd meetings, FS, or one person in the congregation says something negative about him, the elders can 'get' him. Pioneers, well they can be removed by the elders without consulting the CO if they go to college. I suppose they just have to miss a few meetings, they are in a different city after all, then the elders can 'get' them and take away their privileges.

You see this letter and those like it are not a liberal view of education but instructions in how to take privileges off people and hopefully get them to leave because they're getting too clever.

Perhaps the woman you met didn't have a husband in the religion or he may not have been an elder so they couldn't take his 'priviledge' away if his kids went to college. But I bet he never gets to be an elder.

As for 1914 it was heralded as the start of God's kingdom and paradise would come within one generation, 70 to 80 years. We preached that from door to door every day. Revisionist history now tells the congregations that didn't happen, I can assure you it did. But I agree with JWfacts it might not be this lady who's lying she may just be believing the lies the WTS put out. Recent converts don't have a clue what the organisation used to believe, they are not allowed to read old light.

11

Don’t share food with apostate—what about air we all breathe in?

by venus in

we have heard: “don’t share food with apostate.” what about sharing the air we all breathe in?

whether apostate or believer, both breathe in the same air (which is more important than food)!.

today i put this question to the couple who came to invite me for the memorial.

Xanthippe

My brother finally came to see my baby daughter after a year and cancelling five times but they brought cakes with them so they wouldn't have to eat a meal with us. I suppose they were bending the rules a bit and they expected me to be grateful. It's just sad they showed no interest in her for the next twenty years but I suppose they saw we hadn't changed our view, we were unrepentant so that was that.

Good to have you with us Venus. Interesting thought that they won't eat a meal with us but they invite us to a symbolic meal.

74

Was/Is Religion Useful Even if it isn't True?

by cofty in

in his book "the righteous mind" jonathan haidt proposes that religion served - and continues to serve an important role in bringing about cohesion within non-kin groups.. to put it very briefly haidt advocates a form of group selection but only insofar as it applies to humans.

our unique brains have made it possible for us to cooperate in groups in ways that are impossible for all non-human species.

despite their intelligence you will never see two chimps helping each other to carry the same log or one chimp pulling down a branch while the other removes the fruit.. his description is that humans are 90% chimp and 10% bee.

Xanthippe

One of the most interesting statements that he made was that religion and spiritual experiences in particular "bind and blind us". He gives many examples not just religious ones as Cofty mentioned. Where we circle something sacred as a group. We are bound together in this exercise, blinded to its faults in the process. Then feel a sense of something greater than ourselves. Sporting events, 80's raves, military units, religious revivals, and so on. -azor

Peak experiences are often associated with self-actualisation which according to Maslow is at the top of the hierarchy of needs.

https://www.verywell.com/what-are-peak-experiences-2795268

The thing I find frustrating is that peak or 'spiritual' experiences sometimes confirm a person's religious views or sometimes lead people into finding a church. Those endless platform stories at the KH and conventions about someone who had something strange happen that you might call a peak experience and then a JW calls so they saw it as a sign and converted to the cult.

Something natural that is happening in the human brain, which can even as azor says be at a pop concert or sports match, because it is so little understood convinces some people it's Holy Spirit or something, feeling at one with God.

I've often thought this unexplained feeling traps people in religion, 'binds and blinds us' - exactly.

6

ARC meaning

by confused3426 in

jw
friends

sorry if this sounds stupid, what's the meaning of the word arc i see so many use?

.

Xanthippe

Australian Royal Commission. An investigation into child safeguarding policies in religious organisations and I believe some schools.

12

fromBarbara Anderson/charities commission child abuse inquiry UK

by zeb in

jehovah’s witnesses “child safeguarding policy” (great britain, ireland, uk) – 2017. analysis of the child safeguarding policy of jehovah’s witnesses in the united kingdom and the republic of ireland [2017].

by barbara anderson.

2013’s “watch tower bible and tract society of britain and congregations of jehovah’s witnesses in the united kingdom and ireland child safeguarding policy” (wtb&ts of britain’s csp) document was considered to be the official watch tower policy until the release on january 1 of the 2017 “child safeguarding policy of jehovah’s witnesses in the united kingdom, etc.,” (csp of jws in the uk).”.

Xanthippe

November 1, 2016 (page 7) Body of Elders letter sent to all congregations. There was a reference to the matter of property damage to Kingdom Halls from “break-ins, thefts, incidents of arson, or other acts of vandalism.” The rule is to “promptly report it to the local authorities.” There is no indication that elders maychoose to report the damage to the authorities in those situations.

Yes never mind your children just look after our money.

36

What is the basis for advising “Don’t pursue higher studies”?

by venus in

two elders who visited my friend last week encouraged her not to pursue higher studies.

it seems they are dishing out the same old stuff: “the end is imminent, and this is the time to do more in the service; hence don’t waste your resources on higher studies.”.

i wonder whether there was some official communiqué (something that is sent out recently like letter to the elders, or kingdom ministry article …).

Xanthippe

I was told they were having sex everywhere in the universities.

Another one was 'knowledge puffs up love builds up'.

I was told pioneer or be blood guilty for all the kids Jehovah is about to murder. (Slightly edited by me)

The real reason they hate higher education is it's so much easier to indoctrinate uneducated people.

13

"Those Who Leave Are Doomed..."

by AllTimeJeff in

in mission impossible 3, ethan hunt (aka tom cruise) and his protege (aka keri russell) have an explosive pellet implanted in their heads through their nose by the bad guys as a way to control them.

the only way to to stop it from detonating is to use a defibrillator or some device to send massive electric shocks to the body, thus short circuiting the deadly implant.

hunt's protege doesn't get the help she needed in time, and she dies.

Xanthippe

I don't think it does any good for exiting JW's to feel that they are less than others, are somehow doomed,

I agree with this. Not everyone we meet is happy and nobody is happy all the time. People lose jobs, have health or money problems, have bereavements. ExJWs are not broken people surrounded by 'normal' people.