in recent years significant progress has been made in solving the question of how life originated on our planet.. how do you think theists will respond when it finally happens?
as a former christian i know my reaction would have been something like "well that just goes to show that it takes intelligent life to make life", but for two reasons that defense doesn't work.. firstly it would prove that life is not an ethereal force that originates with god.
there is no 'ghost in the machine', no elan vital.
As a former christian I would have believed that it can't happen because I viewed life as something that only emanated from god. Some believers in this thread seem less sure of that.
Perhaps born again evangelical Christians see things differently to mainstream Christians. I found them to be different to the mainstream on FS, a bit OTT actually. One got on his knees begging me to be born again. Time for a sharp exit.
There are many Christian viewpoints about the origin of life I would think.
it seems like many feel hurt or saddened by the practice of shunning by witnesses.. yes, when ones who we were close to, perhaps family or ones we thought were close friends choose to follow the warped directions of the society, it may seem hurtful.. but really, our reaction is up to us.
the fact is, these ones have shown that in reality, their love for us was never real or genuine.
no, those relationships were superficial and lacking in substance.
Stuck I don't think we want to return to an abusive situation but we are not reptiles we are mammals. We are raised in families, be they small or large and we feel a need for this natural setting that we are born into.
On special occasions like the birth of a child or a graduation we want to share it with our families but if they're in a cult and don't care about us it's a sadness. When you've been out as long as I have it's not devastating but it's just subtracts something from our lives that would be there but for the influence of a stupid cult.
just a side note that i found interesting and sort of upsetting, the wt that the jw's will study on sunday the 18th of september has the words undeserved kindness mentioned 50 in just 19 paragraphs.
really they need to beat it into their people that they are very worthless and do no deserve anything from god?
so much so that they use the words over and over, don't they.. lits .
Using their own logic, why wouldn't God be kind to the humans he created? They're still blaming us for the actions of a mythological pair in Eden, but by their own logic sin is inherited and therefore not our fault.
Humans are not wilfully doing anything to prevent God being kind to them if sin is an inherited trait like eye colour, so why is god's kindness undeserved?
it seems to me this god they've 'created' who thinks his children don't deserve anything, not even love, is their excuse for rejecting their own children if they don't obey this religion.
i was thinking this morning in context with the shunning practice- which we all know is a degrading and abusive routine carried out among all brainwashed jw's to those who have sinned/left the org etc.. so with that in mind, how does shunning differ from the silent treatment to jw's?
both are similar in definition... silent treatment.
: an act of completely ignoring a person or thing by resort to silence especially as a means of expressing contempt or disapproval.shun, shunning: persistently avoid, ignore, or reject (someone or something) through antipathy or caution.based on jw teachings which i stupidly accepted back when i was asleep and under mind control, i didn't give it two thoughts on how both acts are related.. i do remember an article in a wt which spoke of how the silent treatment is a harsh and abusive form of discipline, but then they twist it back and claim that shunning is a loving provision?
Yeah Raven it's an ancient practice, shun, exclude, octracise. Ostracise comes from the practice in Ancient Greece of writing a person's name on a pot sherd, an ostracon, and counting up the votes to decide to exile an unpopular citizen from Athens for five or ten years.
People separated from their community in ancient times could die. It's still a punishment for those seen as not worthy to be included in a family or community. A primitive practice from a primitive time.
an old friend of mine committed suicide this week.
he was a great guy; pleasant to be around, a hard worker, kind.
everybody at work liked him.. then something changed.
stillin I'm so sorry for your loss. I just want to tell you that guilt is a part of losing anyone. I'm not sure why, I'm not a mental health professional, it's just from personal experience. Unless the person is very old we always wonder if we could have prevented it somehow.
Depression is a terrible illness. You did all you could for your colleague. You couldn't change his brain chemistry or his family circumstances. You tried to help then you had to pull back for your own mental health. Take care.
or do we give in to social constructivism?
to relativity?
or is there a way to be real and then to say whats real that everyone agrees to?.
So how are you navigating in your desire for absolute truth Ruby? Odd turn of phrase. Are you encountering many obstacles that you have to navigate around? If so perhaps you can say what they are.
or do we give in to social constructivism?
to relativity?
or is there a way to be real and then to say whats real that everyone agrees to?.
edit: the problem with dictionary definitions is that they are too simple and too black or white although these can point you in the right direction. wiki is better cos it provides a general discussion
Lol Ruby I just have to smile. Dictionary definitions of words are too black and white but they can point you in the right direction? So we all end up with a different idea of what a word means? Meanings of words are standardised so that when we talk to someone we can understand them, surely?
So the wiki page on Xenobiology you linked to, what do you get from this discussion?
or do we give in to social constructivism?
to relativity?
or is there a way to be real and then to say whats real that everyone agrees to?.
Was reading something on xenobiology as this includes the kinds of life forms that astrobiologists look for and they need to keep open that other life forms may not be like those on earth so they look for what they term living entities. - Ruby
If you are talking about life on other planets or in other parts of the universe being totally different to us, Ruby, you might be interested in Richard Dawkins' book The Magic Of Reality.
In the chapter Are We Alone? Dawkins discusses the possibility of life forms with X-Ray vision and life forms that can communicate using radio waves but without any device, having evolved to do this just with their brains.
or do we give in to social constructivism?
to relativity?
or is there a way to be real and then to say whats real that everyone agrees to?.
the third thing that can enable us to guard against suggesting absolute truth as a form of objectivity is to consider that language tends to complicate and obscure - but we have to use words.
Not if you use language properly. For example you are talking about scientists looking for automata on other planets. What do you mean? Machines? Robots? Computer?Somehow you get hold of a word Ruby and it seems to mean something in your own head that is different to the dictionary definition.
Automata automatons and such like - I guess these would be self organizing systems that are self sufficient but that we would not class as life that we see on earth.
No an automaton would be :-
give me my romeo; and, when he shall die,take him and cut him out in little stars,and he will make the face of heaven so finethat all the world will be in love with nightand pay no worship to the garish sun.. -- romeo and juliet 3 ii.
Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?
Thou art more lovely and more temperate:
Rough winds do shake the darling buds of May,
And summer's lease hath all too short a date:
Sometime too hot the eye of heaven shines,
And often is his gold complexion dimmed,
And every fair from fair sometime declines,
By chance, or nature's changing course untrimmed:
But thy eternal summer shall not fade,
Nor lose possession of that fair thou ow'st,
Nor shall death brag thou wander'st in his shade,
When in eternal lines to time thou grow'st,
So long as men can breathe, or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this gives life to thee.
Sonnet 18
