Posts by smmcroberts

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

smmcroberts

Christ was very clear in how we are to act for those we love AND for those we hate and it was NEVER return hate with hate or oppress or anthing negative BUT look at the horrifc acts some have commited "in his name".

Some of his words may have conveyed this, but sometimes his actions contradicted the idea. The Bible relates that he engaged in verbal and physical abuse against his enemies. So is it: "Do as I say: not as I do?" And should we then throw out the idea of WWJD?

Also, his frequent mention of hell-fire for unbelievers prompted some Christians to lovingly torture heretics in order to save their souls from damnation. So here again, religion [in this case based on just the supposed words of Jesus] subverted empathy and led to atrocities.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

smmcroberts

There is no way to take our "modern morals" and look back at some OT passages and NOT be distrubed by them.
And rightly so.

Thanks for that admission, PS. But I don't think it's just "modern" morals. I think people knew way back then that it was wrong to rape and murder. That's why they had to have religion to force people to do these actions against their better nature. That's why the prophets/priests or whoever claimed to speak for God had to specifically say "Let not your heart feel sorry; show no mercy! God commands it!"

And that is why I say that religion has been, and continues to be, one of the primary institutions that subverts empathy and leads people to commit atrocities.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

smmcroberts

@Caliber: Some wrongs cannot be made right, ever. Not even by a god. Not even with an eternity of time.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

smmcroberts

Caliber: Ecl. 3 also adds this below.. ( I will not justify nor judge... but" have faith" that all things will be made right by God in time)
He has made everything beautiful in its time.

Ah, and now I picture you saying this after Joshua has completed slicing open the pregnant Canaanite woman, and you are stepping over her bloody remains, and those of her baby and the rest of her family. As you walk through the burning wreckage of her village, stepping over the hacked-up bodies of her neighbors (some still moaning in their death throes) you smile as you look adoringly heavenward, and begin to sing "Everything is beautiful in its own time..."

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

smmcroberts

Caliber: Even in modern warfare do not huge numbers of innocent people suffer death or harm ?

Yes, of course. That's one reason why war is immoral. But don't you expect better from your god of love? I didn't vote for the president of our country for this very reason: he is killing huge numbers of innocent people in his wars. I wouldn't vote for Jehovah as God for the same reason.

Caliber:Why not allow the time and space for the complete manifestation of God's grace ?
The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. (Ex 34:6-7)

For some reason I can't help but picture you standing in the battlefield saying this to a pregnant Cannanite who has just witnessed her entire family murdered, and with Joshua's sword poised in the air about to slice open her belly at your compassionate and gracious god's command.

I don't think she had the "time and space" for that complete manifestation you speak of.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

smmcroberts

Okay, I've just spent way too much time reading all nine pages on this topic (when I'm supposed to be working!) And now I just have to throw in my two-cents worth...

First of all, to answer the OP question: When I die I fully intend to be dead. My definition of dead is "not alive". So, I don't worry anymore about after-life consequences of non-belief, since I don't believe in any personal existence for myself after my life is over.

As for the here-and-now, if I'm wrong then I accept that; I cannot force myself to believe something I think is false (I don't think anyone can.)

unstopableravens: the wt says the all of us here are not going to be resurrected

For once: something they've actually gotten right!

NoStoneCutters: Yes, Satanus, that is where the Creator of all our chemical reactions comes in, because despite our abundance or lack of empathy, there is a standard by which to determine morality in the absence of empathy or one's unwillingness to act upon it.

And that standard is what, exactly? That's it's acceptable to own people as slaves? To keep women in "subjection" and rape them? To kill civilians in war, including ripping open the bellies of pregnant women? To wipe out entire villages when they have tried to make peace with you? To lie in order to get what you want? To call people you disagree with "fools" and "offspring of vipers" and to whip them?

Why is it that we feel that the above list is a list of atrocities? It is because our inherent empathy rebels against actions which harm another. So, you've really gotten it backwards: the Bible does not serve as our moral guide. We have the morals a priori and judge the Bible as immoral on that basis.

New Chapter, I think I've fallen in love with you.

49

Christ Alone vs IsaacAustin (blood)

by isaacaustin in

the wt arbitrarily imposes a ban of 'whole blood' on its members, resulting in heartache, difficulty/delay in receiving medical care, and in many cases death.

rather than focus on the relatively new allowance of blood fractions and the utter flaws in that logic to wt policy, we will focus on blood transfusions involving 'whole blood'.. christ alone, the restrictions on blood found in the ot, or hebrew scriptures if you will, were dietary restrictions on the eating of animal blood, and nothing more.

the mosaic law forbade the eating of animal blood, as it was to be poured out on the ground.

smmcroberts

Thanks for playing devil's advocate, CA.

Here's a couple of your points I'd like to add my two-cents to:

So there are exceptions to Jehovah's rule of abstaining from blood? Can we find a single example of this in the Bible? Where did God EVERY allow for any type of blood to be ingested into the body in any form?

One good example has already been given in a previous post, here's one in which we are not only allowed to "ingest blood," but actually invited and encouraged to do so:

Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. (John 6:51-58)

even in emergency situations where we could die, we are not to eat blood.

Jesus would disagree; he gave an explicit lesson on this very subject with the point being that it was not only acceptable but basically a no-brainer that one should break God's Law in order to save one's life:

Now it happened that he was proceeding through the grainfields on the sabbath, and his disciples started to make their way plucking the heads of grain. So the Pharisees went saying to him: “Look here! Why are they doing on the sabbath what is not lawful?” But he said to them: “Have YOU never once read what David did when he fell in need and got hungry, he and the men with him? How he entered into the house of God, in the account about Abiatharm the chief priest, and ate the loaves of presentation, which it is not lawful for anybody to eat except the priests, and he gave some also to the men who were with him?” So he went on to say to them: “The sabbath came into existence for the sake of man, and not man for the sake of the sabbath”
–Mark 2:23-17 (NWT)

As I argued in my blog, I think the above quote is the best single argument against the WT stance on blood. Let them argue that transfusions are against God's law all they want; the above quote renders it a moot point.

4

Putting it all in context

by smmcroberts in

at their convention the wt spokesmen stated that apostates often bring out points that may be true, but are taken way out of context.. so, i've gone to some lengths to put my criticism firmly within context for them in my latest blog:.

http://smmcroberts.net/blog/putting-it-all-in-context/.

can you think of other topics that would benefit from this approach?.

smmcroberts

Yeah, I don't know how I forgot the "Judge's" first name, though I wish I could forget him entirely.

I updated the blog with his full name, thanks whathappened for pointing it out, and for your kind comment.

4

Putting it all in context

by smmcroberts in

at their convention the wt spokesmen stated that apostates often bring out points that may be true, but are taken way out of context.. so, i've gone to some lengths to put my criticism firmly within context for them in my latest blog:.

http://smmcroberts.net/blog/putting-it-all-in-context/.

can you think of other topics that would benefit from this approach?.