Posts by SanFranciscoJim

23

Should JW's and Gays Be Allowed To Adopt?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

this morning my nearest and dearest were discussing issues relating to adoption.

a close relative of the family has been turned down as an adoptive parent because he and his wife are too wealthy!.

the adoption people say that it is important that children have some negative input into their lives, apparently not having money worries can be bad for you.. we carried on talking and her ladyship asked me whether jw`s ever adopted children.

SanFranciscoJim

The key to adoption is whether the prospective parent(s) can supply the youngster with a loving, supportive environment.
Although I knew many fine JW's who would have made delightful parents, I personally believe that involvement in a religion which keeps a stranglehold on its membership would exclude these parents from adoption, because external factors must be taken into account concerning the child's welfare, not the least of which is the parent's religious involvement.
This goes as well for gays. Gay persons living in homophobic areas such as the "Bible belt" or the deep south should not, IMHO, be allowed to bring a child into an abusive exterior environment, even if the home itself is loving and supportive. On the other hand, I see nothing wrong with gay adoption by those living in major metropolitan areas so long as they can prove their ability to provide, not just financially, but emotionally as well.

25

Question for gay people

by expatbrit in

jw
friends

the question is about the term "tolerance" or "tolerating".. when someone says something along the lines of "i'm very tolerant of gay people" or "gay people should be tolerated", how do you feel?.

the reason i ask is this: doesn't the concept of tolerating something imply a background negative?

for instance, i can say "i tolerate my brother-in-law".

SanFranciscoJim

I have two brothers. Both are heterosexual. Before they married and started families, I posed a question to both of my parents:
"Will you attend my brothers weddings when they decide to marry?" to which they answered "Of course!" without hesitation.
I then asked my parents if they would attend my wedding if I decided to marry another man. After long hesitation, they replied "I suppose so."
That is tolerance. It hurts, but it's understandable, and is much preferable to being disowned, as too many gay ex-JW's have been. In fact, tolerant individuals can eventually expand on their tolerance as they come to understand that the gay lifestyle is not the stereotypical animal sex life which right-wing society paints us. Case in point: my parents, neither of whom had ever been JW's, both said to me "I'd much rather have a gay son than a Jehovah's Witness son".
Website of "A Common Bond" for gay ex-JW's: http://www.gayxjw.org

12

We'll have a gay ol' time

by riz in

jw
friends

i recall having a conversation with a friend about homosexuality not too long ago.

he put a new spin on the subject that i had never thought of before.

he said his opinion was that the bible condemns homosexuality for the simple fact that the act of sex between same-sex partners does not produce children.

SanFranciscoJim

Well, you KNEW I was going to chime in, didn't you?
First of all, the only condemnations which appear in the Bible which refer to same-sex activity are in the context of pagan fertility ritual, not loving same-sex relationships. For an essay I've written on the subject (and may expand upon when I have some free time), please visit http://www.gayxjw.org/bible.html
Unlike many gays & lesbian JW's & ex-JW's I've encountered over the years, I was not born into the BOrg. I joined when I was 17 years old. (Well, it was in 1974 and Armageddon was SOOOOOO close, so what else could I do???) The elder who studied with me told me that all I had to do was "stop being gay" for a few months and after I survived Armageddon I would be perfect, so it wouldn't matter any more. His idea of "stopping being gay" was to stop having sex, nothing more. You see, most JW's simply don't understand that the sex act does not necessarily determine one's sexuality. They haven't enough intelligence to understand this. They are still caught up in medieval moralistic drivel which demands that those who do not adhere to the edicts of the ENGLISH TRANSLATION of the Bible must be condemned and/or destroyed. I daresay there are many heterosexual men who have had fleeting homosexual experiences (although most who would never admit to it), but that didn't cause them to "turn gay". Homosexuality, IMHO, is more of a state of mind than an act. This may account for many gays being above average in creativity and the arts.
All I know is that there are thousands of us out there. We're having our third international conference in Minneapolis this coming August. (Heterosexual ex-JW's, by the way, are very welcome to attend). Was I genetically predisposed to homosexuality? I can't say for sure, but my best guess would be Yes.
Years ago, when I was a JW living in Atlanta Georgia, I was standing at the bus stop one night when a black man approached me and started shouting a tirade of "honky this" and "white that". I looked at the man and simply replied "You know, I didn't fill out a questionnaire before I was born and check the Yes box next to 'Do you want to be white?'" He stopped, thought for a moment, and a big smile came on his face. He then said to me words I will never forget: "Brother, your skin may be light, buy you sure ain't white!"
The point is, I did not fill out a questionnaire before I was born asking if I wanted to be gay, either. Why would I have deliberately chosen a lifestyle where I would be condemned by those around me, even risking injury or possibly death? It was not a choice. This is who I am, and to try and live any other way I would have to live with the discomfort of hypocrisy as I did when I was a JW. I will not live that way again. I have a bumper sticker on the back of my truck which reads "I love being exactly who I am". I think that sums it up.

16

WHERE DO I GO FROM HERE?

by Unchained in

jw
friends

this is my first time at this so bare with me.

i will be turning 21 tomorrow so i decided to celebrate like this.

my family threw me a surprise birthday a week ago and we even had a pinata .

SanFranciscoJim

Thank you for making me feel old, Unchained!
You were approximately ONE MONTH OLD when I was disfellowshipped!
In any event, if you love your children unconditionally, you will allow them to discover their own spiritual path. Most religions, IMHO, teach that "we are the only true religion", and therefore are practicing conditional love, much as the JW's do.
The God I worship today is a God of Love, not a god of doctrine.
JIM

Edited by - SanFranciscoJim on 23 March 2001 20:57:53

4

Need to locate support groups in Japan

by LovesDubs in

jw
friends

i need your help to find support groups in japan for a jw i met online who is very down in the dumps.

she is very lonely and doesnt feel welcome in her own congregation, and her job situation is bad as well.

she needs somebody to talk to and im afraid she will commit suicide if she doesnt find somebody to talk to soon.

SanFranciscoJim

Drop me a line privately. I regularly correspond with an ex-JW in Tokyo.
JIM

4

W.T. Atty Exempt From Being "No Part of Wo...

by SanFranciscoJim in

jw
friends

here is something which will likely enrage every canadian on the board, which was alerted to me by one of my ex-jw friends in nova scotia:.

http://www.gg.ca/cgi-bin/oc_details.pl?lang=e&rec_id=1953.

order of canada.

SanFranciscoJim

Here is something which will likely enrage every Canadian on the board, which was alerted to me by one of my ex-JW friends in Nova Scotia:

http://www.gg.ca/cgi-bin/oc_details.pl?lang=e&rec_id=1953
Order of Canada
W. Glen How, O.C., Q.C.
Full Name Honour Received City and Prov. or Terr.
How, W. Glen O.C. Georgetown, Ontario
Honour Appointment Investiture
O.C. (Officer) November 15, 2000
"Consistently and courageously, for more than fifty years, he has fought legal battles to advance civil liberties. The landmark cases he argued before the Supreme Court on behalf of Jehovah’s Witnesses enshrined all Canadians’ right to freedom of speech, assembly and religious expression and helped pave the way for the Canadian Bill of Rights and Charter of Rights and Freedoms. A man of conscience, he has, for minimal compensation, defended clients in every province of Canada, many American states and several other countries."

=======================================

So now Watchtower attorneys can accept awards from the Canadian government? Whatever happened to being "no part of the world"?

You may wish to contact the Governor General's office to let them know that the Order of Canada has been awarded to someone who represents an organization which blatantly refuses any patriotic activity, deeming it "Satanic", and that the man has probably "sinned" by accepting the award. Contact info for the Governor General's office is as follows:
Mail:
Rideau Hall
1 Sussex Drive
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0A1
Phone Toll-free anywhere in Canada:
1-800-465-6890
In Ottawa:(613) 993-9530
Fax:(613) 998-1664
E-mail:
[email protected]

26

Amish - JWs similiar problems

by larc in

jw
friends

something to read,.

i just found a site where david yoder describes the amish culture in great detail.

it is fascinating to get an inside view of their world.

SanFranciscoJim

I also want to thank you for this link. I spent my youth in Sinking Spring, Pennsylvania which is on the edge of the Pennsylvania Dutch (Amish) Country. (I became a JW there also.) Innumerable accounts circulated of Amish drinking parties, Amish youths in motorcycle gangs, and Amish drug dealing and addiction. When I related these events to those from outside the area who believed the Amish to be kind, gentle folk who rode in horses & buggies and lived like it was still the 19th century, they were incredulous.
This past September, I flew back to Pennsylvania to attend my grandmother's funeral. One day we decided to take a tour of the heart of the Amish country. On a road just outside Intercourse, Pennsylvania, the image is still indelible in my mind of Amish boys on roller blades racing a horse & buggy while the buggy's lone passenger yacked away on his cell phone. I wish I'd not been behind the wheel so I could have photographed this incredible sight!
The older, traditional Amish who practice such strictness and shunning are not unlike the hard-core JW. Which is probably why it was so easy for Amish folk to be converted into the JW's. I knew several.

17

Masturbation

by CoolBreeze in

the title of this thread was one of the stumbling blocks of my study.

as a single full time father(with no time for dating)of a soon to be tenage son this was a major point of imprt to me.

the point came up during a discussion on porneia(sp?).

SanFranciscoJim

Back to your original question for a minute if I may, CoolBreeze. You ask why masturbation is not explicitly mentioned in the Hebrew scriptures while such things as homosexuality etc. are.
As an example, examine Lev. 20:13, which is often cited as a condemnation of homosexuality. If you examine the scripture in Hebrew, however, you find an entirely different meaning. "And when a man (Strong's #376) lies down with a male (Strong's #2145) the same as one lies down with a woman, both of them have done a detestable thing." (NWT) What is rendered in English as "man" (#376 - the Hebrew "'iysh") is defined in Strong's as just that - a male individual. However, the word rendered in English as "male" (#2145 - the Hebrew "zakar") has an entirely different meaning: "One who is noteworthy". Had the author meant to condemn homosexual behavior, he would have used "'iysh" (#376) in both places. "Zakar" (#2145) is in actuality describing a high priest of the god Molech (see Lev. 20: 1-5). Fertility rituals in the form of sexual favors (by both males and females) were common practice in this historical period. Thus, the author was condemning anyone who engaged in pagan ritual, not a particular sex act.
Therefore, unless your son plans to engage in fertility ritual, I see no reason why masturbation should even remotely be an issue.
Cheers! JIM

41

Ecce Homo -- John 19:5

by rabotnik in

are there any former jws who have come out as gay or lesbian?

if so, were you disfellowshipped?

and how did your family react?

SanFranciscoJim

Thank you RedhorseWoman. I'm going to mention this board to John. I don't think he knows about it. I haven't heard from Austin in ages.
There is a new message board which just opened for gay & lesbian JW's & ex-JW's at: http://disc.server.com/Indices/149923.html
It hasn't caught on just yet but hopefully soon it will see as much traffic as Kent's old board.
Cheers!
JIM

41

Ecce Homo -- John 19:5

by rabotnik in

are there any former jws who have come out as gay or lesbian?

if so, were you disfellowshipped?

and how did your family react?

SanFranciscoJim

I am webmaster of the San Francisco "Common Bond" web site, located at http://www.gayxjw.org/
I can tell you that in the past 2 years alone, I have personally been in contact with well over 500 gay & lesbian JW's & ex-JW's on every continent of the world. Considering that our site has had over 43,000 "hits" since it was created, I believe we have only skimmed the surface and are providing a very real need to many hundreds of tortured souls out there. We are planning our third international conference this August, being held this year in Minneapolis.
I have studied the scriptures in the ancient languages for over 2 decades (I was disfellowshipped 21 years ago) and have yet to find any conclusive proof that homosexuality is condemned scripturally.