It seems to me that those who are so carefully protecting Eminem's right of free speech are forgetting one important factor:
The majority of his listeners are not adults. If indeed he is simply making a social statement as many of the posters here have implied, then his lyrics are directed at the wrong audience. As adults, many of us can appreciate tongue-in-cheek, ironic humor, but most youths take such things at face value. For example, have a look at this web site: http://www.clonejesus.com/ It is professionally laid out and well presented. But for crying out loud, who on earth is going to clone the DNA of Jesus Christ? I mean, come on! This likely is the same vain in which Eminem is operating. He has already admitted in interviews that he personally does not harbor prejudices against gays or women. (Did any of you catch his duet with Elton John?) Still, this form of "entertainment" should carry a strong disclaimer for the underage listener that the lyrics are a form of irony and should not be taken seriously, much as packs of cigarettes carry a warning label, and no one calls that a violation of speech freedoms. How's that for compromise?
SanFranciscoJim
JoinedPosts by SanFranciscoJim
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Eminem and censorship
by Uni girl inwhen my son came home from the meeting, he told me that they were told not to listen to eminem because (in his words) he's bad.. i can not stomach the kind of censorship that is put upon people...aren't these things a personal choice or at least a parents choice.
by censoring everything they make a child go behind their parents back and close the line of communcation which could result in some real harm.
i listened to eminem with my son and whilst some of the things are very offensive it was quite clear to me that although he was talking in the first person, he was actually expressing what he thought societal problems were,(no one think bob marley actually son the sheriff do they??).
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SanFranciscoJim
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67
Eminem and censorship
by Uni girl inwhen my son came home from the meeting, he told me that they were told not to listen to eminem because (in his words) he's bad.. i can not stomach the kind of censorship that is put upon people...aren't these things a personal choice or at least a parents choice.
by censoring everything they make a child go behind their parents back and close the line of communcation which could result in some real harm.
i listened to eminem with my son and whilst some of the things are very offensive it was quite clear to me that although he was talking in the first person, he was actually expressing what he thought societal problems were,(no one think bob marley actually son the sheriff do they??).
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SanFranciscoJim
I see your point, Wendy, but you need to understand something from my perspective. I assume you're heterosexual. The vast majority of the people on this board are. In fact, if you stopped and thought about it for a moment, you'd probably realize that you subconsciously assumed everyone to be heterosexual unless you were told otherwise.
Eminem demands the right of free speech, even at the cost of my very right to exist. I cannot begin to tell you the amount of "hate mail" I receive in my email box regularly (including three death threats). That plus several incidents of physical "gay-bashing" have caused me to develop an attitude of intolerance towards those who simply will not let me exist. Eminem, in my opinion, is no better than the elders on my judicial committee who told me at my disfellowshipping: "Jehovah no longer loves you, not for what you do, but for who you are." I see no difference. -
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Eminem and censorship
by Uni girl inwhen my son came home from the meeting, he told me that they were told not to listen to eminem because (in his words) he's bad.. i can not stomach the kind of censorship that is put upon people...aren't these things a personal choice or at least a parents choice.
by censoring everything they make a child go behind their parents back and close the line of communcation which could result in some real harm.
i listened to eminem with my son and whilst some of the things are very offensive it was quite clear to me that although he was talking in the first person, he was actually expressing what he thought societal problems were,(no one think bob marley actually son the sheriff do they??).
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SanFranciscoJim
I'm sorry, Mommy, I don't understand. Please explain.
It's all right for Eminem to censor me, but I cannot do likewise?
Yes, where indeed does one draw the line? -
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Eminem and censorship
by Uni girl inwhen my son came home from the meeting, he told me that they were told not to listen to eminem because (in his words) he's bad.. i can not stomach the kind of censorship that is put upon people...aren't these things a personal choice or at least a parents choice.
by censoring everything they make a child go behind their parents back and close the line of communcation which could result in some real harm.
i listened to eminem with my son and whilst some of the things are very offensive it was quite clear to me that although he was talking in the first person, he was actually expressing what he thought societal problems were,(no one think bob marley actually son the sheriff do they??).
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SanFranciscoJim
I'm tired of people saying this is what causes school-shootings and all this other stuff. Guess what. The entire country listens to eminem. But you don't see the entire country shooting each other.
When I went to high school some 30 years ago (probably long before you were born), school shootings were an unheard of phenomenon. Back then, pranksters would sneak out of school to a public phone booth and call in a bomb scare, and that was the extent of school violence, save for the occasional fistfight.
d0rkyd00d, while I do not argue the fact that anyone should by rights be able to listen to anything they wish, I think it speaks volumes about today's society by such virulent lyrics having become so popular. By allowing such hatred to flourish, the recording industry is giving the green light to impressionable youth to carry out their hatred and prejudices in ways which would have been unheard of just a few short years ago.
In my opinion, the only difference between Eminem and Fred Phelps ( http://www.godhatesfags.com/ ) is that the latter wasn't savvy enough to get a recording contract and a good agent.
Oh, by the way d0rkyd00d, LOL @ your literature counter comment! -
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Eminem and censorship
by Uni girl inwhen my son came home from the meeting, he told me that they were told not to listen to eminem because (in his words) he's bad.. i can not stomach the kind of censorship that is put upon people...aren't these things a personal choice or at least a parents choice.
by censoring everything they make a child go behind their parents back and close the line of communcation which could result in some real harm.
i listened to eminem with my son and whilst some of the things are very offensive it was quite clear to me that although he was talking in the first person, he was actually expressing what he thought societal problems were,(no one think bob marley actually son the sheriff do they??).
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SanFranciscoJim
I take strong exception to your telling me to grow up, Newguy.
Since when does capitalism dictate the right to demand the injury or destruction of others simply because some celebrity cleverly puts words together into so-called "music"?
I sincerely hope, Newguy, that you are never mistaken for a homosexual on a dark city street and chased by armed thugs, or that you are never thrown down a flight of steps by a rabid homophobe. THESE THINGS HAVE HAPPENED TO ME!!!
Maturity comes by looking prejudice straight in the face and calling it for what it is, not making excuses for it.
Now who needs to grow up? Queen to queen's pawn three.... your move. -
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Eminem and censorship
by Uni girl inwhen my son came home from the meeting, he told me that they were told not to listen to eminem because (in his words) he's bad.. i can not stomach the kind of censorship that is put upon people...aren't these things a personal choice or at least a parents choice.
by censoring everything they make a child go behind their parents back and close the line of communcation which could result in some real harm.
i listened to eminem with my son and whilst some of the things are very offensive it was quite clear to me that although he was talking in the first person, he was actually expressing what he thought societal problems were,(no one think bob marley actually son the sheriff do they??).
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SanFranciscoJim
There are two very separate issues being dealt with here:
(1) The Watchtower dictating what the flock can and cannot do without fear of reprisal. When I was at the 1976 International Assembly in Montreal, one of the Governing Body (I think it was Freddie Franz, but I'm not sure) exhorted the multitudes not to listen to any music which was composed by "known homosexuals". He went on to then spout a laundry list of classical composers from the 18th & 19th centuries, spewing hatred for their "immoral lifestyles", warning the audience that listening to such music could invite demon possession. I never heard such absurdity! So, then, following that same logic, considering that composers are artists, were I to go to an art museum and view works by Van Gough, perhaps I may become demon possessed and do something foolish like chop my ear off. Uh-huh....
(2) There is a wide chasm of difference between artistic license and inciting hatred. No, Bob Marley certainly did not encourage his listeners to shoot their local sherriff. However, Eminem's so-called "music" is viciously anti-woman and anti-gay. His graphic depictions of what he wants to see happen to those of whom he so vocally disapproves belongs in Nazi propaganda, not on the radio waves of any free society. Ask yourself this: How would you feel if Eminem suddenly became a rabid Jehovah's Witness, and slightly altered his lyrics to condemn, instead of women and gays, "apostates", the spiritually "weak", and the "Harlot of Babylon"? If this brand of "music" is allowed to continue, then I'm afraid I shall have to move post haste to Salem, Massachusetts in that I am sure to be branded a witch and burned at the stake. The middle ages have returned! -
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Can the WTS be "reformed" ?
by Gianluca ini've notice that there is a tendency by quite a few jw's who are not 100% in agreement with the gb to speak about "reform".
the few i've spoken to have not been able to tell me what exactly they mean by reforming the wts.
so if there are any "reformers" aroung here ( that goes for you too lurkers .
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SanFranciscoJim
Some day in the not too distant future, some Martin Luther-esque "brother" will nail a list of reforms to the front door of Bethel, and thus will be born the "Reformed Jehovah's Witnesses" (as opposed to the "Orthodox Jehovah's Witnesses").
Then will begin the Brooklyn Inquisition.
History does repeat itself. -
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The JW's Have Targeted My Co-Worker!
by SanFranciscoJim ini have long believed in separating my personal life from life in the workplace, and rarely discuss matters of a private nature with co-workers.. i work with a woman who has a young daughter (early 20's) who has terminal cancer and probably only weeks left to live.
i've known this woman for a number of years and know her to be sensitive, and compassionate, having a deep faith in god.. i just found out last week that another one of my co-workers is a jw.
i have no intention of "outing" myself to her and she has no idea that she works side-by-side with someone who was disfellowshipped 21 years ago.. my concern is this: today, the jw co-worker approached me and asked me if i know where my other co-worker lives "because i'd like to talk with her about something very important".
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SanFranciscoJim
You've all given me much food for thought, for which I thank you very much. I do plan to take my co-worker to lunch later this week, and will tactfuly mention that someone was asking about where she lived (without mentioning names), and I happen to know that the person who inquired belongs to the same religion I was expelled from over two decades ago. If she wants to know more, I'll steer her to some good ex-JW web sites, because she is internet savvy.
Thank you all again. I'll post a progress report later on down the line when I know more.
JIM -
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The JW's Have Targeted My Co-Worker!
by SanFranciscoJim ini have long believed in separating my personal life from life in the workplace, and rarely discuss matters of a private nature with co-workers.. i work with a woman who has a young daughter (early 20's) who has terminal cancer and probably only weeks left to live.
i've known this woman for a number of years and know her to be sensitive, and compassionate, having a deep faith in god.. i just found out last week that another one of my co-workers is a jw.
i have no intention of "outing" myself to her and she has no idea that she works side-by-side with someone who was disfellowshipped 21 years ago.. my concern is this: today, the jw co-worker approached me and asked me if i know where my other co-worker lives "because i'd like to talk with her about something very important".
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SanFranciscoJim
I have long believed in separating my personal life from life in the workplace, and rarely discuss matters of a private nature with co-workers.
I work with a woman who has a young daughter (early 20's) who has terminal cancer and probably only weeks left to live. I've known this woman for a number of years and know her to be sensitive, and compassionate, having a deep faith in God.
I just found out last week that another one of my co-workers is a JW. I have no intention of "outing" myself to her and she has no idea that she works side-by-side with someone who was disfellowshipped 21 years ago.
My concern is this: Today, the JW co-worker approached me and asked me if I know where my other co-worker lives "Because I'd like to talk with her about something very important". (I do not know the woman's address.) There is no question in my mind that the JW woman has found a target for proselytization. JW's are notorious for catching people at their most vulnerable, and I'm afraid this woman would be very receptive to the message of "hope".
So.... do I give my co-worker friend a warning that she is about to be descended upon by Watchtower folk, giving her a crash-course in what the JW's are really all about? Much as I feel I should, at the same time this woman has more important things to deal with such as making her daughter's final days comfortable, so do I keep my mouth shut and hope for the best? Your thoughts? -
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Question for gay people
by expatbrit inthe question is about the term "tolerance" or "tolerating".. when someone says something along the lines of "i'm very tolerant of gay people" or "gay people should be tolerated", how do you feel?.
the reason i ask is this: doesn't the concept of tolerating something imply a background negative?
for instance, i can say "i tolerate my brother-in-law".
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SanFranciscoJim
He wants ALL to have eternal life that includes former homosexuals, murderers, thieves, drunkards and yes even us gluttons...
That includes current homosexuals, too, my friend. There is no such thing as a "former" homosexual any more than there is such thing as a "former" blonde. You can dye your hair, but the roots always grow back.