Posts by Ireneus

14

Most illogical verse in the Bible

by Ireneus in

in exodus 20:3-5 god is depicted as saying: “you should have no other gods” and worshipping them would bring ‘punishment for three to four generation’ and worshipping me would bring blessings for “a thousand generations.”.

the sentiments behind this command is same as the one that was displayed by othello who punished his wife desdemona all because of a handkerchief (given to her by othello on their honeymoon) that was happened to be found with someone else.. if it were the real god, he would have said something like this: “you are my children, and you should not worship me.

how can father accept worship from his children?

Ireneus

Hi AlexPancho

That'is what exactly my point is. God is the fullness of all qualities; hence He can only give, not receive. Wanting something denotes deficiency.

Hence, such concepts/verses about God are human inventions.

14

Most illogical verse in the Bible

by Ireneus in

in exodus 20:3-5 god is depicted as saying: “you should have no other gods” and worshipping them would bring ‘punishment for three to four generation’ and worshipping me would bring blessings for “a thousand generations.”.

the sentiments behind this command is same as the one that was displayed by othello who punished his wife desdemona all because of a handkerchief (given to her by othello on their honeymoon) that was happened to be found with someone else.. if it were the real god, he would have said something like this: “you are my children, and you should not worship me.

how can father accept worship from his children?

Ireneus

In Exodus 20:3-5 God is depicted as saying: “You should have no other gods” and worshipping them would bring ‘punishment for three to four generation’ and worshipping me would bring blessings for “a thousand generations.”

The sentiments behind this command is same as the one that was displayed by Othello who punished his wife Desdemona all because of a handkerchief (given to her by Othello on their honeymoon) that was happened to be found with someone else.

If it were the real God, He would have said something like this: “You are my children, and you should not worship me. How can father accept worship from his children? When there is true love between you, you become worship-worthy. I am in no need of worship.”

This shows the whole episode of Exodus is the product of human imagination which means verses carry no meaning at all just like Exodus 20:7 which says He would hold anyone “guilty” for the misuse of His name Jehovah. But we find Jehovah’s Witnesses misusing that very name putting it everywhere—on their publications, property, wall, gate, and also on themselves who pretend to be spokesperson for God, yet keep on changing the teachings according to their convenience—and even when they fight court cases—for/against them. If misusing the name on such a global scale is not noticed by God, then it would mean other verses too have no meaning.

11

Job 26:7 “Earth is hanged upon nothing”—proof of inspiration?

by Ireneus in

jws has been saying bible is authored by god because job 26:7 says: “earth is being hanged upon nothing.” and this verse in combination with isaiah 40:22 which says “god resides above the circle of earth” implies that earth is spherical and remains unsupported from above or from beneath.

thus, bible contains the knowledge which science confirmed later.. however, recent understanding of science is that the whole visible part of the universe is only 4%, and the visible exists because of the invisible 96%-- “dark matter 26%” and “dark energy 70%”--which is a fifth and previously unknown type of fundamental force called quintessence, which fills the universe like a fluid serving as a support to the visible universe.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/space/dark-matter/.

Ireneus

JWs has been saying Bible is authored by God because Job 26:7 says: “Earth is being hanged upon nothing.” And this verse in combination with Isaiah 40:22 which says “God resides above the circle of earth” implies that earth is spherical and remains unsupported from above or from beneath. Thus, Bible contains the knowledge which science confirmed later.

However, recent understanding of science is that the whole visible part of the universe is only 4%, and the visible exists because of the invisible 96%-- “dark matter 26%” and “dark energy 70%”--which is a fifth and previously unknown type of fundamental force called quintessence, which fills the universe like a fluid serving as a support to the visible universe.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/space/dark-matter/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4760730/Huge-map-cosmos-reveals-dark-matter.html

It would then mean that Job 26:7 cannot be used the way JWs do. Job was simply implying that earth was not touching the sky, not as a truth revealed even before the scientists could know.

2

Mathew 12:35—a verse of paramount importance

by Ireneus in

jesus taught he would not use an organization on earth once he leaves the stage (mathew 7:12, 21-23; luke 6:38 …etc) this is because god respects the free-will of everyone and would not force anyone to follow certain path, which means system of things would climax in the situation described in 2tim 3:1-5.. yet those who want to lead a life of ease are not left in the lurch.

there is a verse of paramount importance that jesus spoke of: ‘everyone acts/reacts according to his passion—beneficial or wasteful’ (mathew 12:35) which means there is no basis for certain expected response, towards your action, from others.

this is interesting, because we often get disappointed when others do not appreciate the good we do or are not grateful to us.

Ireneus

Jesus taught he would not use an organization on earth once he leaves the stage (Mathew 7:12, 21-23; Luke 6:38 …etc) This is because God respects the free-will of everyone and would not force anyone to follow certain path, which means system of things would climax in the situation described in 2Tim 3:1-5.

Yet those who want to lead a life of ease are not left in the lurch. There is a verse of paramount importance that Jesus spoke of: ‘Everyone acts/reacts according to his passion—beneficial or wasteful’ (Mathew 12:35) which means there is no basis for certain expected response, towards your action, from others. This is interesting, because we often get disappointed when others do not appreciate the good we do or are not grateful to us. Interestingly, Bruce Lee understood the folly of expectation: "I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine."

This understanding is of great importance because our physical life is full of conditions and would result in ease to the body if we fulfill those conditions. But our spiritual life is without any conditions—we have to act spiritually (or beneficially) and should not bother about responses we receive from others. In this realization, there is no confusion at any time and in any situation. It is like we keep on making our own road!

21

Are older women holding the congregations together (at least in the US)?

by Spiral in

so i went and had a facial yesterday, and the aesthetician (and business owner) was a 30 something women, and we got on very well from the start.

the conversation came around to how many new churches are being built in this area, and i said i was surprised by it all.

she had a very interesting take on the situation.

Ireneus

It is likely to happen, I feel.

11

Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia Interrogated by Masked Police

by pale.emperor in

http://www.newsweek.com/jehovahs-witnesses-russia-ban-police-903021?utm_source=quora.

i guess the gb's idea of writing to the russian government last year didn't help?

now they have their names and addresses in which to raid their homes.. i sometimes wonder if the gb knew this would happen and wanted it to happen to ensure they'd be persecuted thus creating their own fulfillment of prophecy..

Ireneus

It shows human wisdom is at work. God's wisdom would have preempted such untoward incidents.

5

Satan. Lucifer. Devil

by Doug Mason in

searchable.. full contents listing at the rear.. http://www.jwstudies.com/revolutions_part_5__satan__lucifer__devil.pdf .

doug.

Ireneus

In some cultures, the concept of Satan is very simple. They saw the five sensual pleasures are addictive in nature; hence excessive enjoyment of the senses was symbolically equated as being possessed by five ghosts which provides a basis for diseases. This simple explanation was to show that it is possible to have control over sensual pleasures, limited use of which would result in health. But this was elaborated into a vast subject of Satan, and wicked spirits etc.

5

Are the Christian Greek Scriptures (the NT) Jewish or Gentile?

by fulltimestudent in

today's oxford university press blog has a brief discussion by biblical scholar, ann conway-jones**, examining how we may 'see' the nt?.

"the new testament: jewish of gentile.".

conway-jones acknowledges the work of jewish scholars (for example, geza vermes) in correcting some mistaken historical christian viewpoints.

Ireneus

Concept of Messiah originated from a theological dilemma (not from God). When Jews' claim of being a chosen nation was foiled by the Babylonians, they had to invent another claim that a Messiah would restore what was lost to them. This concept was unwittingly relayed by NT writers through Jesus.

Even this too was done thoughtlessly. If the concept of Messiah was really from God, Messiah would be sent only in the concluding period of this world, not 2000 years before which would make room for all the distortions and confusions with over 41000 warring Christian sects. If concept of Messiah originated from God, He would have sent Messiah during the time of Television and internet when everyone on earth could have witnessed all his miracles and resurrections live which would mark the end of all religions and atheism.

13

Noah`s day Flood ? ( again) Waters Covering Active Volcanoes ?

by smiddy3 in

i know their have been many posts dedicated to this subject already and i apologize if this aspect has been handled before.. apart from the many other absurdities relating to the flood of noah`s day being literal as jehovah`s witnesses believe and already thrashed out here by the many posts previous.. i was wondering if this aspect has been considered that the waters would have had to cover over active volcanoes with what result ?.

their are a number of" active and resting" volcanoes at any one time around the earth and i`m just wondering if anyone more knowledgeable than me about the subject would like to weigh in and give their 2 cents worth in what effect a global flood covering volcanoes would have ?.

i am aware their are fissures in the deep oceans where volcanic activity occurs ,but is this the same ?.

Ireneus

The fact that Jesus differed with regard to details (Mt 24:36) shows account is to be seen in its essence--there was destruction to the old world, and a new world started.

5

Are the Christian Greek Scriptures (the NT) Jewish or Gentile?

by fulltimestudent in

today's oxford university press blog has a brief discussion by biblical scholar, ann conway-jones**, examining how we may 'see' the nt?.

"the new testament: jewish of gentile.".

conway-jones acknowledges the work of jewish scholars (for example, geza vermes) in correcting some mistaken historical christian viewpoints.

Ireneus

Hi WTWizard,

In fact, Jesus had no idea about him being a messiah. For him, God is the one who preforms "renewal" or "restoration" (Mathew 19:28; Act 3:21) whenever provisions for life's enjoyments are depleted/destroyed because of unwise choices of humans. Thus God is the most important person in the universe, yet the one who keeps Himself in the lowest profile possible, seeking no worship/prominence [sign of ego], or even gratitude [which makes His love conditional/impure] from beneficiaries of restoration. (Luke 6:38) He comes when there is a need, and goes into silence thereafter. Thus His action speaker louder than words!