Posts by Ireneus

20

Thanks, but no thanks!

by FadeToBlack in

that was essentially my reply to a recent sms i got from the elder of the group i am supposed to be in, requesting a visit to encourage me and get to know me better.

my wife has been attending english language meetings in warsaw for the last year or so (i have never been) and i think they are getting antsy about where i stand.

i've met many of them at events my wife hosted at our house, but so far nobody has pressed me on the issue of my inactivity.. at one of the events, an elder mentioned that he'd heard i 'had been' a jw for many years and he was curious what first attracted me to the org.

Ireneus

Great indeed. The lesser you speak to them the better the results.

And a big thanks to The Fall Guy

1

Some of the vital teachings of the Bible are later interpolations, says Bible writer Habakkuk

by Ireneus in

so small a book, yet habakkuk answers too big questions.. 1) god did not ask israelites to plunder other nations (habakkuk 2:8).

2) god did not authorize eating of flesh of other living beings.

(habakkuk 1:15) uninspired bible writers invented a story of noah’s flood which meant all plant lives got destroyed which necessitated the eating of flesh of living beings (ironically, as though god commanded noah to eat the flesh of the very living beings god supposedly commanded him to save through ark taking two of all creatures).

Ireneus

So small a book, yet Habakkuk answers too big questions.

1) God did not ask Israelites to plunder other nations (Habakkuk 2:8)

2) God did not authorize eating of flesh of other living beings. (Habakkuk 1:15) Uninspired Bible writers invented a story of Noah’s flood which meant all plant lives got destroyed which necessitated the eating of flesh of living beings (ironically, as though God commanded Noah to eat the flesh of the very living beings God supposedly commanded him to save through ark taking two of all creatures)

3) Each person has to purify himself—another person has nothing to do with this. (Habakkuk 2:4) When one deviates from righteous path it is sin, and when he returns to the righteous path he is righteous again. God cannot think of ransom sacrifice where an innocent son of His is murdered—which is an evil act in itself. ‘His mind is too pure to contemplate such an evil thing and he cannot tolerate wrongdoing.’ (Habakkuk 1:13)

10

Disproving one verse of the Bible means proving another verse!

by Ireneus in

last week’s newsweek magazine (february 10, 2018) made a surgical strike on jws teaching that soul is something that can be “destroyed” (mathew 10:28) and man is ‘dust unto which he would return’ (genesis 3:19) when its article (the increasing signs that human consciousness remains after death) made this conclusion: soul “does not become annihilated just because we’ve crossed the threshold of death.” (http://www.newsweek.com/where-do-you-go-when-you-die-increasing-signs-human-consciousness-after-death-800443) interestingly, bible also contains verses that show man has an eternal aspect (eccl 3:5; 12:7).. science is now in the right direction in line with the prediction francis crick, co-discoverer of the double-helix dna, made: “it is not true that mere firing of neurons in the brain could indicate consciousness….

physics has yet to explain how consciousness could come about through firing of neuron in the brain.”.

this also explains why some of the gospels were not included in the canon.

Ireneus

I am into my final year of MoN; hence I know among neuroscientists many believe in soul and others not which means many want to take their own conclusion from the findings of neuroscience.

Science has almost entered the domain of metaphysics and beyond which is inevitable because science is search of truth whereas the hard materialism now has to start softening with the concept of macro-universe of relativity and mass-energy dualism of Albert Einstein, the subatomic wave-particle equation of Erwin Schrodinger, the probability wave concept of Max Born and the Uncertainty Principle of Werner Heisenberg….. Modern physics has turned from the properties of Nature to the essence of it, the ultimate reality, thus is on the path to the divine destination through methodical explorations into the layers of matter, leading to consciousness. Let science take its own time. I don’t wait for endorsement of science for vital subject such as soul for which I have found proof my own way. When I was reading the Newsweek magazine last week in the College Library, I never thought of posting something in JW.net. But yesterday I was posting the same in my dream. When I got up, I thought ‘wow’ it is a good idea—I will post this. This simple thing is more than enough for me to know something immaterial within my body is always working even when my body is resting.

10

Disproving one verse of the Bible means proving another verse!

by Ireneus in

last week’s newsweek magazine (february 10, 2018) made a surgical strike on jws teaching that soul is something that can be “destroyed” (mathew 10:28) and man is ‘dust unto which he would return’ (genesis 3:19) when its article (the increasing signs that human consciousness remains after death) made this conclusion: soul “does not become annihilated just because we’ve crossed the threshold of death.” (http://www.newsweek.com/where-do-you-go-when-you-die-increasing-signs-human-consciousness-after-death-800443) interestingly, bible also contains verses that show man has an eternal aspect (eccl 3:5; 12:7).. science is now in the right direction in line with the prediction francis crick, co-discoverer of the double-helix dna, made: “it is not true that mere firing of neurons in the brain could indicate consciousness….

physics has yet to explain how consciousness could come about through firing of neuron in the brain.”.

this also explains why some of the gospels were not included in the canon.

Ireneus

Earnest,

Here are the last two paragraphs of the article:

How these patients were able describe objective events that took place while they were dead, we’re not exactly sure, just as we’re not exactly sure why certain parts of us appear to withstand death even as it takes hold of everything else. But it does seem to suggest that when our brains and bodies die, our consciousness may not, or at least not right away.

“I don’t mean that people have their eyes open or that their brain’s working after they die,” Parnia said. “That petrifies people. I’m saying we have a consciousness that makes up who we are—our selves, thoughts, feelings, emotions—and that entity, it seems, does not become annihilated just because we’ve crossed the threshold of death; it appears to keep functioning and not dissipate. How long it lingers, we can’t say.”

10

Disproving one verse of the Bible means proving another verse!

by Ireneus in

last week’s newsweek magazine (february 10, 2018) made a surgical strike on jws teaching that soul is something that can be “destroyed” (mathew 10:28) and man is ‘dust unto which he would return’ (genesis 3:19) when its article (the increasing signs that human consciousness remains after death) made this conclusion: soul “does not become annihilated just because we’ve crossed the threshold of death.” (http://www.newsweek.com/where-do-you-go-when-you-die-increasing-signs-human-consciousness-after-death-800443) interestingly, bible also contains verses that show man has an eternal aspect (eccl 3:5; 12:7).. science is now in the right direction in line with the prediction francis crick, co-discoverer of the double-helix dna, made: “it is not true that mere firing of neurons in the brain could indicate consciousness….

physics has yet to explain how consciousness could come about through firing of neuron in the brain.”.

this also explains why some of the gospels were not included in the canon.

Ireneus

Last week’s Newsweek magazine (February 10, 2018) made a surgical strike on JWs teaching that soul is something that can be “destroyed” (Mathew 10:28) and man is ‘dust unto which he would return’ (Genesis 3:19) when its article (The Increasing Signs That Human Consciousness Remains After Death) made this conclusion: Soul “does not become annihilated just because we’ve crossed the threshold of death.” (http://www.newsweek.com/where-do-you-go-when-you-die-increasing-signs-human-consciousness-after-death-800443) Interestingly, Bible also contains verses that show man has an eternal aspect (Eccl 3:5; 12:7).

Science is now in the right direction in line with the prediction Francis Crick, co-discoverer of the double-helix DNA, made: “It is not true that mere firing of neurons in the brain could indicate consciousness…. Physics has yet to explain how consciousness could come about through firing of neuron in the brain.”

This also explains why some of the gospels were not included in the canon. The best argument that we have an immaterial part (called Spirit/Soul) came from Jesus Christ. However, it is recorded in the Gospel of Thomas (not in the Traditional four Gospels). Jesus says: ‘If the flesh came into existence because of the Spirit, it is a marvel. But if the spirit arose from the flesh, it is a marvel of marvels.’ (Gospel of Thomas Saying 29)

In other words, what he means is that:

‘If the boat came into existence because of the boat-man, it is understandable.

But if the boat-man emerged from the boat, it defies all the known logic!’

10

Inconsistency involving Lot and Abraham

by Ireneus in

when god informed of his intention of destroying the wicked inhabitants of sodom and gomorrah abraham made extensive questioning, cross-questioning and bargaining with god till he gets satisfied.

(genesis 18:16-33) however, when god informed of his intention of murdering abraham’s own only-begotten, innocent son, he simply obeys without any questionings [which he should naturally have done more intensely than he did in the case of unrelated wicked people].. god too acted strangely!

no introduction of the subject with sufficient reasons.

Ireneus

Cold Steel,

You have to approach my OP as though you have not heard about teaching about Jesus' ransom sacrifice.

OP clearly says Father offering son as a sacrifice (both of Abraham and of God) is a human thought, written by humans. That means God is no where in the picture, says the Bible. (Luke 6:38)

10

Inconsistency involving Lot and Abraham

by Ireneus in

when god informed of his intention of destroying the wicked inhabitants of sodom and gomorrah abraham made extensive questioning, cross-questioning and bargaining with god till he gets satisfied.

(genesis 18:16-33) however, when god informed of his intention of murdering abraham’s own only-begotten, innocent son, he simply obeys without any questionings [which he should naturally have done more intensely than he did in the case of unrelated wicked people].. god too acted strangely!

no introduction of the subject with sufficient reasons.

Ireneus

When God informed of His intention of destroying the wicked inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah Abraham made extensive questioning, cross-questioning and bargaining with God till he gets satisfied. (Genesis 18:16-33) However, when God informed of His intention of murdering Abraham’s own only-begotten, innocent son, he simply obeys without any questionings [which he should naturally have done more intensely than he did in the case of unrelated wicked people].

God too acted strangely! No introduction of the subject with sufficient reasons. Straight away, God commands: "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about." (Genesis 22:2)

“Early the next morning Abraham got up and saddled his donkey. He took with him two of his servants and his son Isaac. When he had cut enough wood for the burnt offering, he set out for the place God had told him about. (Genesis 22:3)

Obviously, inventors of Jesus’ ransom sacrifice thought for a smooth entry of their incomprehensible subject with a precedence of Abraham’s offering of his son. So they invented story of Abraham’s sacrifice. But this backfires as it poorly depicts God. It gives the impression that God was not sure of the propriety of His idea of offering His son ‘to take away the sins of the world;’ hence He makes a trial as though to find out what its receptiveness could be, through the response of Abraham. This is not warranted in the case of all-wise God which shows this is all human thinking! To provide a basis for Abraham’s story, they had to invent Lot, and destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah—a story with no purpose because Lot’s daughters finally had to ‘get their father to drink wine so that they could lie down with him to have children from him’ (Genesis 19:30-36), children (Moab and Ben-Ammi) who became the ancestors of two nations Moabites andAmmonites that became enemies of Israel.

To produce one incomprehensible story of God offering His son to be murdered as sacrifice for the sins of the world, see how many incomprehensible stories that must precede it!

7

John the Baptist has no heavenly hope?

by Ireneus in

jws teach that john the baptist would not inherit kingdom of heaven.

however, there are problems with this teaching.. john’s mother elizabeth was both barren and too old to conceive.

(luke 1:7) birth of john was an act of “holy spirit.” (luke 1:15) then we find jesus saying: “among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than john the baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven [“kingdom of god,” luke 7:28] is greater than he.” (mathew 11:11; luke 7:28).

Ireneus

JWs teach that John the Baptist would not inherit Kingdom of Heaven. However, there are problems with this teaching.

John’s mother Elizabeth was both barren and too old to conceive. (Luke 1:7) Birth of John was an act of “Holy Spirit.” (Luke 1:15) Then we find Jesus saying: “Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven [“kingdom of God,” Luke 7:28] is greater than he.” (Mathew 11:11; Luke 7:28)

Greatness of John the Baptist lies in two factors:

1) He was born from the “Holy Spirit” and hence is of the “woman” of Gen 3:15 which JWs teach as the heavenly organization.

2) Life of John the Baptist was like a sacrificial dying for Jesus because he declared: “He must increase, but I must decrease.” (John 3:30)

In other words, not only by his birth but also by his action (extraordinary humility) greatness of John the Baptist has no match whom Jesus himself described as “more than a prophet.” (Mathew 11:9) After showering such great praises to John it is unlikely that Jesus would make sentence such as “whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven [“kingdom of God,” Luke 7:28] is greater than he” which can be interpreted by JWs as John sharing no heavenly hope, especially because of the fact that there cannot be grades in that Kingdom because rest of the Bible overwhelmingly argues that no one earns the right to inherit that Kingdom because all those who become part of new kingdom are bought with blood of Jesus when their inheritance was death, when they were slaves to sin and death; hence question of their greatness doesn’t even arise.

3

What is the blindness Jesus referred to in Mathew 15:14?

by Ireneus in

in the context of speaking about human teaching and its teachers (mathew 15:8, 9) jesus said: “they are blind guides.

if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.” (mathew 15:14).

its application need not be too limited because what is being subjected to our senses is very limited.

Ireneus

In the context of speaking about human teaching and its teachers (Mathew 15:8, 9) Jesus said: “They are blind guides. If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.” (Mathew 15:14)

Its application need not be too limited because what is being subjected to our senses is very limited. Even with regard to our own body, we have a limited vision. It’s like seeing only the tip of our nose because our bodies are continuously being recycled with even 98% of all our atoms being replaced in less than a year. Heraclitus stated that one can’t step into the same river twice because there is constant change occurring. There is always something preceding to something which means there cannot be a beginning for anything—even for universe. Not seeing this endless aspect would amount to blindness.

13

Try this on a JW

by Saltheart Foamfollower in

this is not intended to expose wrong teachings etc, just to promote thinking and asking questions.. 1) ask if imperfection and death automatically follow sin.

jw will answer yes.. 2) ask if satan is imperfect then.. 3) sit back and watch them try to work out what the right answer should be.. sf.

Ireneus

Brilliant