Ireneus

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Posts by Ireneus

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  2

  Much of the words Jesus really uttered might not have reached us

  by Ireneus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  much of the words jesus really uttered might not have reached us and what has reached us could not have been originated from jesus.

  for example, eagle-eyed jeremiah could declare that what was circulating during his time as ‘the law of jehovah in fact was falsehood or deception of the lying pen of scribes or of the dishonest scribes.’ (jeremiah 8:8, berean study bible; christian standard bible; good news translation).

  jesus who had even sharper eyes than jeremiah and also anointed by holy spirit would even use sharper words to describe the invalidity of that law than jeremiah did.

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  Ireneus

  Much of the words Jesus really uttered might not have reached us and what has reached us could not have been originated from Jesus. For example, eagle-eyed Jeremiah could declare that what was circulating during his time as ‘The Law of Jehovah in fact was falsehood or deception of the lying pen of scribes or of the dishonest scribes.’ (Jeremiah 8:8, Berean Study Bible; Christian Standard Bible; Good News Translation)
  

  Jesus who had even sharper eyes than Jeremiah and also anointed by holy spirit would even use sharper words to describe the invalidity of that Law than Jeremiah did. Such words would not reach us because Law was made for the benefit of religious establishment—a fact that is well-attested alike in all the four gospels. (Matthew 21:12–17, Mark 11:15–19, and Luke 19:45–48; John 2:13–16). That means Jesus being depicted as a strong advocate of Law is a later adoption of the same religious establishment. Yet, words that show his real view of the Law could not be eliminated from the Bible. For example, Jesus simply cancelled Law when he said Mathew 7:12; 9:13; 25:31- 46 …etc.

  The above conclusion is further reinforced when we look at the spurious context in which the Law was supposedly received, in the Sinai desert following the deliverance of the Israelites from Egypt: The depiction about the Hero of the whole episode, God, doesn’t match with His actual personality, with what He has already done in the nature. His style is so majestic that He cares for more than what is just required. Look at one of His acts—our planet home. It is more wonderful than it is convenient, more beautiful than it is useful. God could provide only what would remove our hunger and thirst—yet look at the variety of each fruit (as much as 7500 in the case of apple with bananas, grapes, strawberries and clementines coming after …), flower ……..etc. In the backdrop of this, you read Exodus. The way many times Israelites had to quarrel for their basic needs such as food and water shows that this God of the universe was nowhere in the picture. (Exodus 17:2) At one point they were even about to stone Moses (Ex 17:4). If God was really leading them, He would have taken care of not only their very basic needs but even more, without even anyone asking for them (Mathew 6:8)
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  16

  GB and Moses—an interesting similarity!

  by Ireneus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  moses is the symbol of divorcing anyone who acts smarter and exhibits sharper spiritual insight.

  his wife, zipporah, daughter of a pagan midianite priest (exodus 2.15-22), was more spiritual and had keener spiritual insight than moses.

  on one occasion she averted a disaster by acting promptly (by performing the act of circumcision on their son) thus saving moses from being killed by jehovah’s angel which ultimately helped the israelites’ exodus from egypt.

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  Ireneus

  Hi Michelle,

  It is not that I have ‘my own idea about how the "real" God would have treated the Hebrews.’

  It is like the concept we have about Fire Force Service personnel. They have created a consistent record of putting off fire that was on our property and other valuables. Suddenly, when someone says in his area, Fire Force personnel came and set on fire his house and valuables we wouldn’t believe that person. Similarly, Book of Nature which is better documented than Scriptures shows what kind of God He is. Unfortunately, He is very poorly depicted in the Bible because of the “lying pen of the Scribes” (Jeremiah 8:8)

  You asked “how has He treated you since you began your journey? Have you got anything to report?”

  What God has done to the whole mankind is divided by 7.6 billion (the present population) is what He has done to me. I would have been more than happy with mere sustenance. Yet look at the variety—for example apple—7500 variety! So is the case with each fruit and flower. Hence my present life is not enough if I were to thank Him. Hence I do not ask: “how has He treated me since I began my journey?”
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  16

  GB and Moses—an interesting similarity!

  by Ireneus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  moses is the symbol of divorcing anyone who acts smarter and exhibits sharper spiritual insight.

  his wife, zipporah, daughter of a pagan midianite priest (exodus 2.15-22), was more spiritual and had keener spiritual insight than moses.

  on one occasion she averted a disaster by acting promptly (by performing the act of circumcision on their son) thus saving moses from being killed by jehovah’s angel which ultimately helped the israelites’ exodus from egypt.

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  Ireneus

  Hi myelaine

  Your question is interesting: “Did Bernard Shaw thoroughly investigate what the bible said or were his thoughts and observations based on how people practiced their beliefs?”

  I have thoroughly investigated what the Bible says, and have found that most of the things it says poorly depicts God, and thus dishonors Him (which is more than what Bernard Shaw feels). Bible is a simple book of just 31,102 verses, and you have 86400 seconds in a day—imagine how many times you can read the Bible in a year!

  What claims to be written about God in the Bible does not match with what God has actually done in the nature. His style is so majestic that He cares for more than what is just required. Look at one of His acts—our planet home. It is more wonderful than it is convenient, more beautiful than it is useful. God could provide only what removes our hunger and thirst—yet look at the variety of each fruit, flower ….

  Now in the backdrop of this, you read Exodus. The way many times Israelites had to quarrel for their basic needs such as food and water shows that God was not leading them. (Exodus 17:2) If He was really leading them, He would have taken care of it more than just sustenance even without anyone asking for them (Mathew 6:8) At one point they were even about to stone Moses (Ex 17:4)

  If God would not lead people the way it is depicted in exodus then it means accounts are just human thoughts. This is true of most of other accounts in the Bible--something true prophets like Jeremiah could insightfully declare. (Jeremiah 8:8)
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  16

  GB and Moses—an interesting similarity!

  by Ireneus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  moses is the symbol of divorcing anyone who acts smarter and exhibits sharper spiritual insight.

  his wife, zipporah, daughter of a pagan midianite priest (exodus 2.15-22), was more spiritual and had keener spiritual insight than moses.

  on one occasion she averted a disaster by acting promptly (by performing the act of circumcision on their son) thus saving moses from being killed by jehovah’s angel which ultimately helped the israelites’ exodus from egypt.

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  Ireneus

  Hi Diogenesister

  “Be strong and courageous” (Joshua 1:9; Jeremiah 1:8) is a command from God. What if everyone obeys this command and courageously read the Bible without the help of religious leaders? They will all come to the conclusion that Bible is filled with human thoughts and imagination.

  See how the book of Exodus is made. The way many times Israelites had to quarrel for their basic needs such as food and water shows that God was not leading them. (Exodus 17:2) If He was really leading them, He would have taken care of it without anyone asking for them (Mathew 6:8) At one point they were even about to stone Moses (Ex 17:4)

  If God would not lead people the way it is depicted in exodus then it means accounts are just human thoughts.
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  16

  GB and Moses—an interesting similarity!

  by Ireneus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  moses is the symbol of divorcing anyone who acts smarter and exhibits sharper spiritual insight.

  his wife, zipporah, daughter of a pagan midianite priest (exodus 2.15-22), was more spiritual and had keener spiritual insight than moses.

  on one occasion she averted a disaster by acting promptly (by performing the act of circumcision on their son) thus saving moses from being killed by jehovah’s angel which ultimately helped the israelites’ exodus from egypt.

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  Ireneus

  Hi myelaine

  Second half of what you wrote confirms Bernard Shaw’s view of the Bible.

  My point is that God’s word should be crystal clear on everything it says—like Junction Signaling humans have done on earth. RED Signal means STOP …etc. Otherwise it accomplishes opposite results.
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  16

  GB and Moses—an interesting similarity!

  by Ireneus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  moses is the symbol of divorcing anyone who acts smarter and exhibits sharper spiritual insight.

  his wife, zipporah, daughter of a pagan midianite priest (exodus 2.15-22), was more spiritual and had keener spiritual insight than moses.

  on one occasion she averted a disaster by acting promptly (by performing the act of circumcision on their son) thus saving moses from being killed by jehovah’s angel which ultimately helped the israelites’ exodus from egypt.

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  Ireneus

  Hi myelaine

  A tree is judged by its fruits. (Luke 6:43-45) We have to judge the Bible not by its claim, but what it has done to mankind. Your comments confirm what George Bernard Shaw said about the Bible: “No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says: He is always convinced that it says what he means.”

  It is this very unique feature of Bible that gave rise to over 41000 warring sects within Christianity. God’s word should unite people, not divide them. “God is not a God of disorder”—1 Corinthians 14:33

  
  
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  16

  GB and Moses—an interesting similarity!

  by Ireneus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  moses is the symbol of divorcing anyone who acts smarter and exhibits sharper spiritual insight.

  his wife, zipporah, daughter of a pagan midianite priest (exodus 2.15-22), was more spiritual and had keener spiritual insight than moses.

  on one occasion she averted a disaster by acting promptly (by performing the act of circumcision on their son) thus saving moses from being killed by jehovah’s angel which ultimately helped the israelites’ exodus from egypt.

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  Ireneus

  Hi myelaine

  Jesus cancelled Law of Moses when he said Mathew 7:12, illustrated it with no ambiguity in Mathew 25:31-46 and declared that no religious leaders are authorized to lead the people in his name (Mathew 7:21-23).

  This is because if one realized that action and consequence are inseparable (which is too obvious in the nature, history and even in individual experiences), he would act thoughtfully taking all pros and cons before executing the action. This is all what is required. (Eccl 12:13, 14)

  
  
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  16

  GB and Moses—an interesting similarity!

  by Ireneus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  moses is the symbol of divorcing anyone who acts smarter and exhibits sharper spiritual insight.

  his wife, zipporah, daughter of a pagan midianite priest (exodus 2.15-22), was more spiritual and had keener spiritual insight than moses.

  on one occasion she averted a disaster by acting promptly (by performing the act of circumcision on their son) thus saving moses from being killed by jehovah’s angel which ultimately helped the israelites’ exodus from egypt.

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  Ireneus

  Moses is the symbol of divorcing anyone who acts smarter and exhibits sharper spiritual insight. His wife, Zipporah, daughter of a pagan Midianite priest (Exodus 2.15-22), was more spiritual and had keener spiritual insight than Moses. On one occasion she averted a disaster by acting promptly (by performing the act of circumcision on their son) thus saving Moses from being killed by Jehovah’s angel which ultimately helped the Israelites’ exodus from Egypt. (Exodus 4:24-26) Yet Moses left her behind before the exodus. (Exodus 18:2) Though it is reported that she later reunited with Moses (may be an interpolated idea) it has no charm in it as Moses had already taken another wife, a "Cushite" or Ethiopian woman. (Numbers 12:1)
  

  This is exactly how GB responded to all those (including former GB member Raymond Franz) who had deeper spiritual insight, hence tried to correct the system from within. No wonder, Jesus tried to undermine religious leaders like Moses whenever opportunity presented itself. (Mathew 19:8) When people brought a prostitute to Jesus and asked: “In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?”…”Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger” signifying “Law is like writings made on the desert sand or like lines drawn in the water, no meaning, is of no use to anyone.” Then he made this revolutionary statement: “Then neither do I condemn you, Go now and stop sinning.” (John 8:1-11)

  This explains why we find in the Bible under-currents of schools of thought for and against Law.
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  25

  If God’s people can’t see anti-God verses in the Bible

  by Ireneus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  if god’s people can’t see anti-god verses in the bible, how can they be god’s people?.

  jehovah is the “god of the gentiles also” and “there is no impartiality with god,” says the bible.

  (romans 3:29; deuteronomy 10:17).

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  Ireneus

  Hi myelaine

  Genesis 1:26 says God is the Father of all human beings—a fact that Bible repeats in many places—such as in Ephesians 4:6 …

  “The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth.”—Acts 17:24
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  25

  If God’s people can’t see anti-God verses in the Bible

  by Ireneus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  if god’s people can’t see anti-god verses in the bible, how can they be god’s people?.

  jehovah is the “god of the gentiles also” and “there is no impartiality with god,” says the bible.

  (romans 3:29; deuteronomy 10:17).

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  Ireneus

  Drearyweather,

  You are right because you are seeing things form Moses' point of view. What I wrote was from Father's view--how a father would treat his children. No father would exalt one child over others, one sex over other sex, one nation over others ...etc.