Posts by Ireneus

33

Irrationality of in important teaching

by Ireneus in

jesus used illustration to make things clear.

hence imagine yourself in a situation which reminds you of an important teaching:.

you are in a super market, and you are told: “someone has already paid for whatever you have purchased”[as churches teach through their ransom sacrifice].

Ireneus

Perry,

All those verses are weeds according to Prophet Jeremiah 7:22, 31; 8:8

33

Irrationality of in important teaching

by Ireneus in

jesus used illustration to make things clear.

hence imagine yourself in a situation which reminds you of an important teaching:.

you are in a super market, and you are told: “someone has already paid for whatever you have purchased”[as churches teach through their ransom sacrifice].

Ireneus

Perry.

This not reasoning, but repeating what someone wrote thoughtlessly.

Enjoy your life of refusing to see.

33

Irrationality of in important teaching

by Ireneus in

jesus used illustration to make things clear.

hence imagine yourself in a situation which reminds you of an important teaching:.

you are in a super market, and you are told: “someone has already paid for whatever you have purchased”[as churches teach through their ransom sacrifice].

Don’t behave like the slothful servant who hid the one talent in the ground. (Mathew 25:14-30) We are created in God’s “image.” (Genesis 1:26) Hence our thinking and reasoning should resemble that of God whose very basis is “reason” (Romans 12:1) as opposed to the commercial mind-set of priestly class who introduced the subject of sacrifice, says God’s faithful prophet Jeremiah himself (Jeremiah 8:8; 7:22, 31)

1) Take any of the OT verses that supposedly foretells about Jesus, and read the WHOLE chapter where that verse appears—you will find it as referring to either Israel in general, or to a particular individual in that nation!

2) When you hear Jesus died for our sins, you must ask ‘How is it possible?’

Jesus himself declared that he came to fulfill the Law, not to dilute or destroy it. (Mathew 5:17) KILLING AN INNOCENT PERSON IN A CRULEST MANNER to atone for the sins of others is in effect fighting sin with greater sin.

It is only pure reason that the Omniscient God Almighty will not be led into a situation where He will find Himself in utter helplessness that He will need the help of one of His children to come out of a crisis, or to find Himself in a situation that there is no other way than killing one innocent person—that too His own first born—longest loved son in the first place! Bringing the son through a virgin, and finally killing him through a cruelest manner, and making such a KILLING the basis of forgiveness of people’s sins CANNOT BE an idea originated with God, Jesus nor any prophet. Because fulfillment of such a scheme depends on God’s expectation of consistent behavior of hard-core sinners like Pharisees, which means God should depend on THE CO-OPERATION OF AVOWED SINNERS TO REMOVE SINS!? If it takes a greater sin (killing the innocent son) to remove lesser sins, what does God convey through ransom-teaching—SIN REMOVES SIN? Does it not back-fires on the very idea of arranging a sacrifice to atone for the sins? Would Almighty, All-wise God do such a thing? NEVER.

Christendom argues that Satan is the force behind your sins, hence another supernatural person, Jesus, can arrange forgiveness of your sins! However, Jesus simply DISMISSED such ideas—the roles Satan or Adam who are supposed to have played with regard to sin—when he categorically declared: “A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him,” and each one will reap proportionate and appropriate consequences. (Mathew 12:35-37) His half-brother with whom Jesus might have had more interaction declares: “Each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.” And God is the source of “every good and perfect gift,” (James 1:14-17) HENCE HE WILL NOT PLANT A TREE TO ENSURE SIN AND DEATH OF HIS CHILDREN using a formula called “one man sinned, hence all became sinners.” God’s servants are very clear on this subject—one cannot take the responsibility of other’s sin, nor contribute to other’s purity: “The righteous person will live by his faithfulness.” (Habakkuk 2:4; Romans 14:12) The unrighteous would suffer the consequences of their sin which means sin is obliterated through suffering of the sinner.” (Luke 6:38; Galatians 6:7)

If ransom teaching is true, then it only creates more problem than it supposedly solves

Jesus says some are “good,” (Mathew 12:35) hence not in need of any sacrifice like ransom sacrifice.

Those who die too do not need ransom sacrifice “as the wages sin pays is death,” (Romans 6:23) hence those who die are absolved of their sins because of the very fact they died: “He that is dead is freed from sin.” (Romans 6:7) Put it simply:

THE GOOD do not need ransom

THE DEAD do not need ransom (the living will also die at some point anyway)

Then for whom did Jesus die? The fact is that Jesus was a threat to the religious establishment of that time because of his simple teaching. Enmity was also aggravated by Jesus’s own scathing criticism of them calling them hypocrite, white-washed tombs, brood of vipers, and also publicly whipping them out of the temple—that too TWICE. And “they began for some way to kill Jesus” (Mark 11:18), they got rid of him! Here, where is the sacrifice? Or who sacrificed whom?—Compare John 7:28; Luke 22:42. If Jesus really came to give ransom, naturally all his talks would have been centered over this FUNDAMENTAL concept using all his skills and reasoning powers, explaining why and how of such an arrangement. On the contrary, the only passing, feeble comment he supposedly made in the context of contrasting the rulers of Gentile as found in Mathew 20:28, Luke himself, on close examination, found as interpolation, hence removed from his Gospel. (Luke 22:25-27) The portion you cite where Jesus supposedly speaks of him offering wine as symbol of his blood for the atonement of sins of the world, from John’s gospel, is obviously a later adoption made as a basis for Church’s holy mass arrangement, just like John 3:13 was put into Jesus’ mouth.

Reason why ransom teaching become popular?

Just like diseases spread, ransom teaching too spread like wild-fire, because of the nature of people in general who want teaching “pleasurable to their ears.” (2 Timothy 4:3) The very thought that ‘there is someone who takes care of our sins’ is not only pleasurable to the ears but also to the mind and heart! One’s ego will be thrilled over such prospect! Will it contribute to holiness of people? Look at the fruitage! (Mathew 7:16, 17) Did ransom teaching contribute to more holiness or to more loose-conduct? What does the moral climate of the Christians show?

If Teaching of Ransom sacrifice is true, there are some other things too must be true such as ‘earth is the center of universe, and God has ego-problem …etc because the very basis of ransom-teaching lies in the middle of the story of Adam and Eve which starts claiming earth is the center of the universe (Genesis 2:4); and ends with showing God is having ego-problem. (Genesis 3:22-24) [Adam and Eve account is actually a parallel creation account appearing after the original creation account which says all mankind were created SIMULTANEOUSLY in ‘God’s image’ (Genesis chapter 1), something Jesus confirmed in Mathew 23:9]

When you read the Bible you must also weed out from the Bible! Then only you will benefit from Jesus, the great ‘teacher,’ who was sent by God (John 8:28, compare Acts 3:13) to turn people “from evil to do good” (Psalm 37:27) and to restore us to the “image” of God, whose primary attribute is goodness. (Mark 10:18). Traces of sin are not in our body, it is in our egoistic thinking. When you change the thinking (good or bad), your destiny is changed accordingly. No one else can do that for you.

33

Irrationality of in important teaching

by Ireneus in

jesus used illustration to make things clear.

hence imagine yourself in a situation which reminds you of an important teaching:.

you are in a super market, and you are told: “someone has already paid for whatever you have purchased”[as churches teach through their ransom sacrifice].

Ireneus

Perry,

STILLIN has already sufficiently refuted all your points.

If ransom teaching is from God, why is it irrational? Why didn't Jesus use his supernatural ability and skill to explain this teaching?

33

Irrationality of in important teaching

by Ireneus in

jesus used illustration to make things clear.

hence imagine yourself in a situation which reminds you of an important teaching:.

you are in a super market, and you are told: “someone has already paid for whatever you have purchased”[as churches teach through their ransom sacrifice].

Ireneus

Perry,

You say all these because you were taught that way. What guarantee is there for those things to be true especially in view of the fact Jesus himself foretold truth will be overpowered by interpolators and false teachers who will be operating in “his name” (Mathew 13:24-30; 7:21-23).

Listen to Jesus directly what he says: “Unless a seed falls into earth and dies, it cannot produce any grains.” His taking the unmistakable principle behind the eternal seed-tree mechanism makes all the difference—physical apparatus of the seed dies but life continues (which he further reiterated, with absolute clarity, through the famous parable of Lazarus and Rich man). Thus for Jesus, death was an expression of life, the most critical defining feature of life. When you die, you are making the ultimate undeniable assertion that you have been alive. In fact, death is even a precondition to life. That means life is already eternal because we are all “God’s image”, no one loses it, hence no one has to regain it for us—a point which William Shakespeare indirectly hints at: “What a piece of work is a man! How noble in reason, how infinite in faculty! In form and moving how express and admirable! In action how like an angel, in apprehension how like a god!”(Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2, Page 13) Yet this is what Bible put it with absolute clarity: “Eternity” resides in each one’s physical body. (Ecclesiastes 3:11)

You can find many people thinking in above lines:

“Surely God would not have created such a being as man, with an ability to grasp the infinite, to exist only for a day! No, no, man was made for immortality.” (Abraham Lincoln)

“I would love to believe that when I die …. some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue.” (Carl Sagan)

33

Irrationality of in important teaching

by Ireneus in

jesus used illustration to make things clear.

hence imagine yourself in a situation which reminds you of an important teaching:.

you are in a super market, and you are told: “someone has already paid for whatever you have purchased”[as churches teach through their ransom sacrifice].

Ireneus

Jesus used illustration to make things clear. Hence imagine yourself in a situation which reminds you of an important teaching:

You are in a Super Market, and you are told: “Someone has already paid for whatever you have purchased”[as Churches teach through their Ransom Sacrifice]

yet when you turn another side, someone else says: “You have to pay for whatever you buy from here”[as we learned in School ‘every action has equal and opposite reaction’which means effect of sin cannot be swapped (Deuteronomy 24:16), hence each one has to pay for his sin]

51

Without god what is the basis of morality?

by OneEyedJoe in

i'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?

my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?

" previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.

Ireneus

Jesus did not say we have to be ethical because God exists, but implied when we are ethical we reflect God (Mathew 5:9)

13

The bread pan illustration is totally flawed

by purrpurr in

it just suddenly occured to me today.... you know the jws always say about adams sin being passed on to his descendants that its like you have a bread pan with a dent in it and that every loaf of bread will then have a dent?

well that's fine for bread, cos your using the same pan.

but that's not how genetics work?.

Ireneus

Good reasoning.

Bible writers are confused over this. In one place it would say 'the sins of the father will be poured out on the offspring to the third and fourth generations' and in another place it would contradict it, as given in Deut 24:16; Eze 18:20.

History too tells a different story. There are good children born to wicked parents and vice versa. There are geniuses born to ordinary parents and vice versa.

Individual experience too tells a different story. If one changes his thought, his destiny is changed accordingly for the good or bad. And it is very easy to change thought which is the starting point of something good or bad.

1

Great efforts to make something fake look real

by Fay Dehr in

great efforts to make something fake look real from r/exjw.

interesting videos at http://tinyurl.com/jwleakedvideos.

Ireneus

Interesting speech by Brian Martin who announced HO and all its branches would use new accounting procedure from 2019-29 with new culture of expense-cutting consciousness.

Thanks for sharing these videos, Fay Dehr

31

Jesus tempted by Satan, real or just a vision.

by pleaseresearch in

not with their shunning policy.

me and my brother seldom communicate sadly, but no way would we go anywhere for fear of being seen with an inactive jw for over 10 years.. https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-simplified-march-2016/questions-from-readers/.

from the website:.

Ireneus

Though Bible writers used poor imagination in creating a setting for the temptation for Jesus, in essence it conveys a profound thought. Just like sea-worthiness of a ship is known when it is placed in the sea and survives a storm (not when it is anchored on the shore), Jesus proved his worthiness through his second “baptism by fire” (Mathew 3:11) which means he was victorious over all the temptations he encountered throughout his life as implied by Mark 1:13 when he said: “He was with the wild animals, and angels attended him” which means he tasted the life as it is with its rough and soft aspects. All those temptations can broadly be categorized in to three:

1) Tendency to use skills and talents for own benefit rather than for others (changing the stones into bread).

2) Putting God into test taking extreme risk (jumping from the top of temple) with an eye on fame though short-cut.

3) Forgetting the main purpose of life getting sidetracked on to the splendour of world’s attractions (kingdoms of world in exchange for an act of worship of Satan, personification of bad qualities, which means enjoying worldly pleasures and powers through unjust means)

Thus, in details the account of temptation on Jesus carries wrong messages such as shape of earth is flat, Satan is a person, Jesus followed Satan to be tempted …etc. But in essence it conveys great truth that man can be victorious over any temptation by changing the thought as Jesus did—he did not dwell on any of them.