@vienne, really looking forward to volume 2.
I would love it if you continued on into the Rutherford era. But understand the enormous amount of work that is involved. What you have done so far is much appreciated.
doubtfull1799
JoinedPosts by doubtfull1799
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43
JW Refutations of Criticism of Russell and Rutherford
by Duvduv incan someone direct me to jw refutations of the harsh criticisms of charles russell and judge rutherford that are on the internet and youtube?
i am a fair person and insist on hearing both sides to a controversy.
in this case, i would like to know what traditional yw responds to such personal criticisms and alleged changes in beliefs.
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Strange conundrum
by doubtfull1799 ini just had a thought inspired by @newboy's recent post:.
why is it that despite the watchtower corporation being arguably the biggest publishing house in history, having produced billions of tracts, brochures, magazines, books for o very 100 years, and having the largest army of volunteer publicity agents on the planet, that 99% of the population is still clueless as to what their message is all about?.
if you ask random people what jw's beleive you will rarely get the so-called "good news": gods kingdom is going to soon usher in a paradise earth and fix all the worlds problems under the 1000 year reign of christ.. you will instead get: "they're the people who... 1. don't celebrate christmas or birthdays, 2. don't take blood, 3. go around with the watchtower, 4. have big assemblies... etc etc".
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doubtfull1799
I just had a thought inspired by @newboy's recent post:
Why is it that despite the Watchtower corporation being arguably the biggest publishing house in history, having produced billions of tracts, brochures, magazines, books for o very 100 years, and having the largest army of volunteer publicity agents on the planet, that 99% of the population is still clueless as to what their message is all about?
If you ask random people what JW's beleive you will rarely get the so-called "good news": Gods kingdom is going to soon usher in a paradise earth and fix all the worlds problems under the 1000 year reign of Christ.
You will instead get: "They're the people who... 1. Don't celebrate Christmas or birthdays, 2. Don't take blood, 3. Go around with the Watchtower, 4. Have big assemblies... etc etc"
Maybe God should get the stones to cry out, because the system he's used for the last 100 years hasn't really worked!
Instead of advertising the King and his kingdom (ADV at 1922 convention) as Rutherford envisioned, all that has been advertised is the blood issue and the pagan origins of worldy holidays!
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Bible comes alive if we look for meaning behind the symbols it uses
by Ireneus inbible contains too much human thinking presented as though from god, thus much of its information brings dishonor to god.. yet it contains great beneficial truths behind the symbols it uses.
let us take the only two cases of miracles jesus performed without any request from anybody which would show the very purpose of his ministry:.
1) jesus healed a woman who “was bent over and could not straighten up at all.” (luke 13:11-13).
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doubtfull1799
I agree with you to a point that the only value to be found from the Bible is metaphorical, or I would suggest as a sociological study of mans struggle to understand the world and his place in it. As the most famous book of the western world it is indelibly entwined in our culture. Whether what it contains is true or not, inspired or not, it is part of our cultural heritage.
However, how can you make the claim that it dishonours God? First you have to demonstrate that he exists. Secondly you would have to demonstrate what God actually wants/feels/command in order to contrast that with what the human writers of the Bible claimed he wants/feels/commands, in order to show there is a difference and that the Bile is this dishonouring him or misrepresenting him in some way.
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Why the term "waking up?"
by Sour Grapes inis the term "waking up" the best way to describe when a jdub starts to have doubts?
to me, it is rather that a jdub realizes that what they have believed for years was a pack of lies and then they have to make a conscious decision if they want to continue to believe in lies or stop being a jdub or just go along for the ride.. it just amazes me how many die-hard jdubs there are despite every failed prophecy about the end coming, the borg being a part of the dreaded wild best united nations, the put down of women in the borg, the massive cover-up of the child abuse in the borg, the willingness to let a child die because they need blood, and the eagerness to shun a child who at the age of 10 got dunked to make mommy and daddy happy only to not want to be a jdub later and have the parents treat them like they are dead because 8 overweight, balding, goofy looking, incoherent men in upper state new york say that are the rules for being a christain.. jehovah's witnesses are a very sad cult that attracts people with emotional, psychological, or medical issues, have very large egos, can't make simple decisions, and believe in the tooth fairy..
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doubtfull1799
Perhaps because the mental condition of someone who has been indoctrinated for many years is akin to a type of intellectual sleep or metal fogginess?
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A question regarding RC/DC changes
by no-zombie inwith the rumored changes or deletion of the regional/district conventions ... does anyone know if the organization will cancel them all together or just reduce their duration from 3 to 2 days, so they can be slotted into local assembly halls easier?.
no-zombie.
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doubtfull1799
They've just released the programs for next years circuit and one day assemblies on jw.org so we know nothing is changing there at least for another year. As to regional conventions, well it remains to be seen if there is any validity to a certain rumour....
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Blessings and Curses
by jws inbiblical blessings and curses have always been an issue for me - at least since i started to look at this stuff with a more critical eye.. so, what are they exactly?
i know the traditional sense of the words.
if you're blessed, good things happen to you.
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doubtfull1799
Yep, you're right, makes no sense at all!
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JW Refutations of Criticism of Russell and Rutherford
by Duvduv incan someone direct me to jw refutations of the harsh criticisms of charles russell and judge rutherford that are on the internet and youtube?
i am a fair person and insist on hearing both sides to a controversy.
in this case, i would like to know what traditional yw responds to such personal criticisms and alleged changes in beliefs.
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doubtfull1799
Also if you want one of the most balanced, unbiased, and thorough critiques of Russell and the very early days, B.W.Schulz & R.M Vienne (who post here occasionally I think) are some of the best and most diligent scholars publishing material on this era. You can get their books on Lulu.
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JW Refutations of Criticism of Russell and Rutherford
by Duvduv incan someone direct me to jw refutations of the harsh criticisms of charles russell and judge rutherford that are on the internet and youtube?
i am a fair person and insist on hearing both sides to a controversy.
in this case, i would like to know what traditional yw responds to such personal criticisms and alleged changes in beliefs.
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doubtfull1799
Read the Proclaimers book - that pretty much sums up the Watchtower side of the story.
Then get a hold of a series of articles in Watchtower from the early days called "Harvest Siftings" and you'll see both sides of the Rutherford takeover were actually published, but only one side is represented in the Proclaimers version. There are many scholars who have done thorough independent research on the early days of the Society and if you do your own research you will quickly discover that the Proclaimers book is revisionist history at its finest. There is no discussion of some of the Watchtowers greatest controversies like the Walsh trial or the Moyle trial. Also look up the Societies own actual membership statistics which are available in the predecessor of the Proclaimers book, "JW's in the Divine Purpose" and you will clearly see that around 75% of followers left the org after the controversial failed Rutherford prophesy of 1925, not just "a few disgruntled members" that the Proclaimers book claims.
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My Conversation With JW's Last Night
by TD inthe subject was how long humans have been on the earth.
although i'm posting this under "jokes & humor" this is (sadly) only a slight exaggeration:.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b_0cfmq1nu.
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doubtfull1799
That was brilliant - thanks for sharing!
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The 'IN' families
by punkofnice inone thing i don't miss about being a jobo, is those families that ruled the congregations.. i've seen how the elders protected their own using our old friend, nepotism.. eg.
the son of an elder that stole a car and was prosecuted but 'let off' because it was kept secret and all his relatives were elders in the same congregation.
it certainly went on when i was an elder but i wasn't one of the 'in' crowd.
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doubtfull1799
I served as an elder for nearly 20 years and I can tell you from personal experience that nepotism was one of the the greatest failings amongst elders. I served with many good and sincere elders and well as some rotten eggs along the way, but even the good ones often gave into nepotism, either by promoting their children to readily for privileges, or by protecting their children from discipline or judicial actions.
@JTrottigy - if you believe nepotism doesn't exist in the org you either have no experience in the matter, or you are delusional. I have witnessed personally dozens of cases of it in my time. Yes, on paper it is something that Witnesses don't approve of and good men actively try to avoid, but the reality is far different from the intentions.