@Sea Breeze - throwing out a bunch of texts from the same mostly pseudepigraphical sources (and part of the same collection of religious propaganda) provides no evidence of what Jesus actually said. The fact that these writers claim to be eyewitnesses doesn't help us when we don't know who they were and know from textual analysis that they couldn't have been eyewitnesses as they were written much later. What is to stop these people from putting words in Jesus mouth? How can we verify any of those verses you quoted?
doubtfull1799
JoinedPosts by doubtfull1799
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36
The question`s GOD beleiver / Creationists ignore or don`t / won`t / can`t answer ?
by smiddy3 inthe common thread of beleivers / creationists of a god creating life is design .. and if something / anything is designed it must have a designer ?.
however this reasoning is discarded when talking about the existence of god.. and if such a being as god somehow existed without a designer why not all forms of life itself as existing on earth ?.
coming into existence without a designer ?.
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The question`s GOD beleiver / Creationists ignore or don`t / won`t / can`t answer ?
by smiddy3 inthe common thread of beleivers / creationists of a god creating life is design .. and if something / anything is designed it must have a designer ?.
however this reasoning is discarded when talking about the existence of god.. and if such a being as god somehow existed without a designer why not all forms of life itself as existing on earth ?.
coming into existence without a designer ?.
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doubtfull1799
@Sea Breeze - how do you know Jesus said any of that? He didn't write anything down that has survived. And the writings that have survived (the gospels - there are no extrabiblical sources for anything Jesus supposedly said) are not eyewitness accounts. So then, what makes you so sure exactly what Jesus said? Is "Jesus said so" really good evidence for anything?
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“Heaven and Earth will pass away but my words will by no means pass away.”
by Fisherman in“this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.
heaven and earth will pass away but my words will by no means pass away.”.
the destruction of jerusalem is insignificant in the large scheme of things.
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doubtfull1799
Today, JW claim to have authority from God which gives them jurisdiction on qualifications for baptism. If you reject that, it’s up to you
Just because they CLAIM authority doesn't mean they have it. Show me the paperwork? I never saw any documentation from God appointing them to a position of authority???
JW interpretations and claims haven’t been debunked. 1914 adds up and there is evidence JW publish to support it.
Are you serious? JW chronology & theology has been thoroughly debunked over and over again. Even a cursory bit of research outside JW sources would show you that.
For example back in the 1 century the apostles had authority from God.
Who says - just because it's written in a book? Again, show me the paperwork! Miracles you say? How do we know they happened. Do you have any documented proof other than hearsay testimony (which is all the Bible accounts are as the gospels were not written by eyewitnesses) This kind of testimony would never hold up in court so how does it prove authority?
Oh and by the way, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that the Apostle John wrote Revelation - he didn't. It was another John. Do some research... please...
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20 Things I Don't Understand about Jehovah's Witnesses
by Vanderhoven7 ini don’t understand how jehovah’s witnesses can rightly claim:.
that less than 150,000 faithful christians existed prior to the 20th century....when allegedly millions were martyred during the first 3 centuries of the common era alone.
unique ability to interpret scripture...when interpretation of prophecy has been 100% wrong for over 130 years.. .
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doubtfull1799
Vanderhoven7, you have been out for about 12 years, is that correct? I ask sincerely, why are you trying to understand these things? JW theology is just made-up nonsense based on cherry-picking proof texts and bad exegesis. Debunk it, yes, but why try to understand it? I have found it far more enjoyable to study the Bible from the historical-critical viewpoint and learn about comparative mythology, rather than trying to work out so-called proper beliefs and dogma. Given that the Bible is not an inspired collection of books, and the canon we have was never meant to make sense as one unified collection, this is an exercise in eternal frustration! I think you will find far more richness in the Bible if you let go of trying to see it through a Christian faith lens and enjoy it for what it is.
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More JW left ideology examples
by neat blue dog inthe latest gb update ramps up the fear of the plandemic even more, and introduces a whiteboard animation that advocates staying at home, wearing masks and social distancing.. https://www.jw.org/finder?locale=en&category=latestvideos&item=pub-jwb_202012_12_video&docid=1011214&applanguage=e.
then there's another 'save the planet' type article that mentions debunked and unrealistic green new deal-esque talking points such as alternative energy, switching to a plant based diet and less manufacturing.. https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/peace-happiness/save-earth/.
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doubtfull1799
They aren’t going to inform their flock that the inventor of the PCR test said Faucci was a joke and invited him to a debate, which he refused. Or that the PCR test is being used fraudulently in a completely illogical manner that the inventor never supported.
Fact check/Citation please? (on the second claim - I have confirmed that he didn't like Faucci and thought he was just a bureaucrat, but the inventor died in Aug 2019 before PCR was being used for Covid testing)
If they cared about people, they would be instructing people to take hydroxychloroquine, quercetin, and/or green tea along with zinc and vitamin D. This combination is known to reduce the severity of other coronaviruses (such as those that cause regular colds), and quercetin is a nutrient that just happens to protect you from this virus without bad side effects.
Citation, please?
If everyone took these supplements in sufficient doses, there would be no need for all this nonsense. No "social(??)" distancing, no masks, no closing down things, no mandatory vaccinations, no nothing. You get the virus while taking these supplements, you barely get sick if at all, you become immune to the whole thing, and that's the end of that
Citation please?
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2020-Articles Of Association--Bylaws--Notice Of Special Meeting! (as of 2020-11-25)
by Atlantis in2020--articles of association and bylaws--3 pages.. .
2020--notice of special meeting in december--8 pages.
if you are a jw read carefully before you sign.. .
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doubtfull1799
Yes please
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By What Authority Do you Teach?
by Vanderhoven7 ini am in earnest.
i will not excuse; i will not equivocate;.
i will not retreat a single inch.
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doubtfull1799
Great questions but they're all too fundamentally flawed to be of any real use for anything other than arguments along the lines of "my religion is better than yours."
2 Tim 3:16 doesn't define what constitutes "scripture" so that's useless. Paul doesn't provide a list for an accepted canon that he is referring to, but since the NT hasn't been written yet, it can only refer to Jewish scripture.
Q2 - we don't actually really know how the apostles viewed scripture as we don't have their written comments on the subject, just hearsay by anonymous authors.
Q3 - this question is based on a problematic premise - that the Bible teaches anything "clearly." It is too full of contradicting ideas and statements. Most Christian doctrines are based on short pithy cherry-picked quotes or a mash of conflicting arguments.
The Bible is an extremely poor piece of communication if it is meant to convey divine doctrines, and no-one could ever claim that their interpretation is the closest match to what the author intended, so the whole idea of Bibles clear teachings vs religious leaders teachings is a misnomer.
Q12 - short of a divinely signed document this is impossible to verify, but so is the mandate of the Bible writers themselves - there is no way to verify that they were authorized by God to write what they wrote, so again the mandate of interpreters is meaningless.
So to sum up, no-one really has any authority to teach anything about God, assuming there even is one.
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8 Documents Arrived Today!
by Atlantis in1.--authorization and release agreementfor disaster relief medical assistance.
------------------------------------------------------------------2.--for the attention of all elders------------------------------------------------------------------.
3.--additional direction regarding assistance with practical needs------------------------------------------------------------------.
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doubtfull1799
Yes please Atlantis!
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A great new interview video! (One of our fellow forum members) A video you will love!
by stuckinarut2 inthis video has to be watched!
ben is truly wonderful guy who i count as a genuine friend!
his insights and experiences are so interesting.. enjoy:.
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doubtfull1799
@Wake me up - so true. You are spot on. They don't really care about truth, just the appearance of it. They care more about being in their special club and having a "hope". Last Sundays Watchtower is a classic example. It tells them to make sure they have the facts, but then discourages them from actually looking into the facts from any source other than their own. That whole Watchtower was paying lip service to the importance of "facts" when we know full well no JW would really care to find out the facts about their history, their doctrines, or child abuse etc They are indeed terrified of it. It is visibly traumatising for them even to be offered it form a source other than Watchtower.
@steve2 - thanks Steve, I try to be. But I also find being intellectually honest requires constant vigilance with oneself.
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Trully brilliant interview with Watchtower writer
by Diogenesister inexjw fifth knocks one out of the ballpark with this trully brilliant interveiw with watchtower writer and researcher ben.
extremely thorough and informative.. https://youtu.be/vnzmnion5tk.
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doubtfull1799
AKA Doubtfull1799