The reality of "shunning" and character assasination highlighted at the Australian Royal Commission

by stuckinarut2 in

once again, the arc has brilliantly highlighted the reality that any witness who either fades or disassociates is subjected to active official shunning by the organization.. the "brothers" tried to state that it was the choice of the indiviual who steps away from the organization to shun them!

they actually tried to make it out to be the fault of the one who leaves!

then they tried to say that those who fade are not shunned!.

tor1500

Hi LongHairGal,

Glad you read my comment....yep, that's how I see the org. An over confident Lover with a lot of lovers to spare, we are not dating or anything because I have new lovers now, but I'll ignore you, but you can hang around....and sadly many of the friends hang around and shunned....

I'm so sad you were treated badly in the org. and happy you got out with your mind intact.....They just wanted you to be a nobody with nothing...so they can talk about you...I'm a witness...I can tell you some stories, but since I'm in, they may be recognizable....The friends don't bother me much, I work and make a good living, but at the same time, I don't spend a lot of time with them...that's how you get in trouble...oh, yeah, they try to tell me what to do or make suggestions of how I could increase my ministry, and so on....but I just pull out a scripture to support what I can do....silence...

I found the best way to answer a witness....just like they say....let the bible speak ....& I do....

Tor

47

What do you think the Australian Government will do?

by Richard Oliver in

i am not wanting to start a fight.

i just want to hear what people think.

honestly and realistically, what do you think the australian government will do, with watchtower, when they receive the full arc report?.

tor1500

Hi,

I was thinking again, why doesn't the police just go and arrest the brothers that know about these cases as accessories to the crime...we all watch Law and Order, when the want the big boy, they arrest the little boys...

Or am I'm in la la land....

They know the org. has knowledge of these crimes....so just bring them in.....they are so big on persecution, do a drag net of brothers...the media will take pix but the headline won't be....JW persecuted for neutrality, or won't denounce their faith...no that won't be the headline....We all know what it would say...JW's in dragnet arrest for knowing of crimes ......then it'll be explained...

Don't know how the friends gonna stick their heads in the sand after that....

Tor

95

Who can explain why the "Two Witness" rule is wrong, in the simplest term?

by DATA-DOG in

with all the legalese being tossed around, and the expert manipulation on the part of the wtbts, who can explain why the "two witness" is being perverted by the wtbts?

i don't care if you're a bible believer and want to approach this from a biblical standpoint, or if you simply use logic and reason.

how would you explain this subject to a j-dub, or even a non-dub?.

tor1500

Hi,

What fool would take a witness with them to commit a crime....duh? I can see drawing up contracts and things of that nature, but to use 2 witness rule regarding rape....& The courts don't move on that alone...

These child abuse cases have been going on for quite some time now...I know the wheels turn slow, but folks have come out to accuse the WT... and still no exposure...the friends are busting at the seams because they know, but can't say anything...

The Catholic religion has been exposed...they have big backing...so much so that it was a miracle that they were even touched. There are many famous and influence Catholics, they are a rich religion with connections all over the place, yet they got exposed...oh, they fought tooth and nail like the org...but they were exposed...

2 witness rule is just a way to stall...

Tor

47

What do you think the Australian Government will do?

by Richard Oliver in

i am not wanting to start a fight.

i just want to hear what people think.

honestly and realistically, what do you think the australian government will do, with watchtower, when they receive the full arc report?.

tor1500

Hi,

I don't know the law, that well, just mostly my rights....All anyone can hope for is that it will force the org. to call the authorities....maybe it may wake up some JW's that is they should put their child before the org. Never think twice call the police...may also show the friends the org. was wrong in not reporting...

Again, don't know the law...but even if nothing comes of it... & I hope something does come out of it...that the org. is exposed, just like the Catholics...I would just like to see the arrogance kicked out of JW's that think their org. don't stink...

The org. doesn't have to be brought down, but it needs to be humbled...

Tor

33

The reality of "shunning" and character assasination highlighted at the Australian Royal Commission

by stuckinarut2 in

once again, the arc has brilliantly highlighted the reality that any witness who either fades or disassociates is subjected to active official shunning by the organization.. the "brothers" tried to state that it was the choice of the indiviual who steps away from the organization to shun them!

they actually tried to make it out to be the fault of the one who leaves!

then they tried to say that those who fade are not shunned!.

tor1500

Hi All,

Liars Liars pants on fire....tight pants that is...lol...

We are told not to talk to the DF'd person.....never saw a faded person in the congregation....in field service sometimes we knock on a door and one of the friends will say, oh that's a witness, but they haven't been to the kh for a while...if you even smile at a DF'd person and another person see's you, they come and say, oh...you're not supposed to have any contact with them....Some of the DF'd ones are young ones, in their teens....yet, they come to all the meetings and assemblies....Shunning is so wrong...when a person does something that's the time they need contact with persons...

Here's how the org. sees it....You are DF'd....it's your choice to come to the hall, you know we will ignore you...so if you are up to it....we won't stop you, come...but remember YOU WILL BE IGNORED...so don't complain if we ignore you because you know...

The org. is like a mate that don't want you no more, and told you that it's over, but you still call and he won't pick up the phone....you love that person so much, you put away your pride, because no matter what, you still want to be with them...so they say, ok, you can come around (out of pity for you), but just to be around them....and knowing they are through with you....you stick around...there is a saying...."Beat me Beat me, but don't ignore me."....

So the org. is saying.....Why do this to yourself....you did what you did and you shunned us....

Has anyone come on the stand and say exactly what goes on in the org...I have been reading this site for a while...all this legal mumbo jumbo....here's the real deal....

The org. does not report Child abuse to the authorities

The org. tells the friends not to go to the authorities...WHY?

If you do something the org. don't like, they will warn you, then depending on who you are in the congregation, they'll just leave at that....I've seen some folks that I know got a free pass and yet another person did a less of an offence...and got the book thrown at them...the friends say, well, the brothers take in consideration your attitude...if you are truly repentant then maybe just their privileges may be taken away. If you grovel like David did, they may not DF you.

You cannot question their doctrine, even if it's does not line up with the bible, you just have to wait for a new light you saw before them.....

Again, shunning is bad and some folks take it to another level....some folks are so mean they wouldn't spit on you if you were on fire....

Coming to the hall and being shunned is one thing but to be shunned in your own home and family...that's another thing...it's your choice to go to the hall and be shunned, but you have no choice if you live with a family that shuns you....that's their choice...but again, we don't know what goes on behind closed doors...

Right now I can say anything because it never happened to me...but at this moment....today...if I was Df'd or DA'd...me....I'm not going to the hall, to be rejected...well depends on what I did..most likely it would be because of the doctrine...so why go back if I don't agree...another illustration....why call a guy, that don't want me...I'm just dialing rejection...

I do get that some have no where else to go....

Again, all this legal mumbo jumbo.....shunning...doctrine, reporting hours...etc...not criminal offences...but...

NOT REPORTING CHILD ABUSE IS A CRIMINAL OFFENCE...AND TELLING SOMEONE NOT TO GO TO THE POLICE WHEN THEY KNEW OF THE CRIME...IS A CRIME TOO....

They are dancing all over the real problem...The Catholics did not get reprimanded for doctrine or excommunication, and other churchy stuff, BUT HIDING CRIMINALS WITH IN THE CHURCH TO PROTECT THEIR IMAGE...that's what they got in trouble for.

.But what most don't know....I know some folks that are DF'd and still talk to their family....and been DF'd more than once....now at the hall, the family don't talk to her but at home....I know they do...

That's what the ARC should focus on.......ask every Brother the same question every time....did you say or were you told to tell the friends not to go to the police ? That's it...if the org. gets in trouble about this and held accountable...the other stuff they do wrong will follow...

The org. has to change this....the ARC has to focus on this issue more than any other...Children's lives are at stake....

Tor

2

Is God pulling out who he wants in paradise/heaven from all places of worship

by tor1500 in

jw
friends

2 cents tor here...i was just thinking...most of the folks who don't go to church yet they worship god, also not fanatical, is god showing what a sham religion is.

we see many today do care about each other but not really into religion.

most of the folks i meet are much nicer than people in places of worship.

tor1500

Hi,

Another thought, maybe God (again, if you believe), don't want no know it all church folks in the new system...he would maybe take his chances on the folks who aren't in church. Because they seem to know how to go about their day and get along and get back home safely....but he's seen how folks act in churches...they can't seem to get along, the Baptist don't like the Catholics, the Pentecostals don't like the Mormons, The JW's don't like nobody....yet folks outside churches seem to be doing pretty good...

Just another thought...of why God may not chose folks from church....

Tor

2

Is God pulling out who he wants in paradise/heaven from all places of worship

by tor1500 in

jw
friends

2 cents tor here...i was just thinking...most of the folks who don't go to church yet they worship god, also not fanatical, is god showing what a sham religion is.

we see many today do care about each other but not really into religion.

most of the folks i meet are much nicer than people in places of worship.

tor1500

Hi All,

2 cents Tor here...I was just thinking...most of the folks who don't go to church yet they worship God, also not fanatical, is God showing what a sham religion is. We see many today do care about each other but not really into religion. Most of the folks I meet are much nicer than people in places of worship. I find people like that have a mean spirit, and that's their default button. (Places of worship is Rehab for the mean spirited).

I meet many nice people outside the hall too....and they ok. Which I knew that already, it's the witnesses that live in glass bubble. Scared to come outside their comfort zone....

Have any of you out after being a witness that most people are ok? I won't talk about while you were a witness...I think you thought that folks were ok, but again, in your comfort zone.

Thoughts ?

Tor

74

Was/Is Religion Useful Even if it isn't True?

by cofty in

in his book "the righteous mind" jonathan haidt proposes that religion served - and continues to serve an important role in bringing about cohesion within non-kin groups.. to put it very briefly haidt advocates a form of group selection but only insofar as it applies to humans.

our unique brains have made it possible for us to cooperate in groups in ways that are impossible for all non-human species.

despite their intelligence you will never see two chimps helping each other to carry the same log or one chimp pulling down a branch while the other removes the fruit.. his description is that humans are 90% chimp and 10% bee.

tor1500

Hi All,

Always great comments to make one think....Religion=Control. Spirituality= Moves your heart to care and to do something about it...Religion was supposed to teach spirituality, instead it taught mankind how to dominate one another rather than take care of one another...

If you read the bible with Love on your mind, you won't see the do's and don'ts.

Whether there is a God or not...at the end of the day, are we our brother keepers...does it really matter if we come from apes, or that the earth was created a million trillion years ago, is there life on other planets, the big bang, Jesus was just a man, never existed, God was evil, killed all them children, my two best stories...the prodigal son and the good Samaritan....should we drink the wine and bread, are we anointed ? Was this scripture meant for the sheep or the anointed....

Here is goes....when someone is in need...do you have to go through all these mental hoops to help them? We are all in this together...there are some good things and some bad things, but no matter what, we are in this together....if there are other planets and other beings and want to invade Earth, will they care if you are a witness or a catholic or black or white...if they want to invade, they are killing earthlings...that's us...

Some folks need religion to tell them what to do and how to live...otherwise they would follow Homey The Clown. Some don't need religion to tell them how to treat folks, they know, but they like to go to church, hall, & synagogue to fellowship, to be around like thinking folks...they like to belong...

Before I became a witness I went to other churches...some crazy and some ok, most are motivational speakers, they talk to the broken hearted. But one thing is for sure, they may be nosy like all worship goers, but they dare not tell the pastor. Why? because they don't want to draw any attention to themselves. If you go to the pastor and say you saw so & so doing this or that, they will say, well thanks very much. But they will say to depending if you are one of those busy bodies...if you are telling on someone, what are you clearing your conscience about?

Here's a thought...just think how bad some folks would really be if they weren't in church or the hall ? If they are this messed up and they worship...as they say in the bible...Woe to the earth...

Tor

14

My story

by victory in

my name is collins.

i am from nigeria.

i was born in the year 1997. i was raised by witness parents.

tor1500

Hi Victory,

Hoping with all you have been through you come out.....Victorious.....I do like your name...Welcome...You have come to the right place...

I'm glad you know they are fake friends...you go to a place of higher education...make some friends....the people outside the org. don't bite...don't be afraid of not being a witness...if you believe in God, then you can find some where else to go to worship...Religion is man made....spirituality is another thing all together....churches, or any place of worship don't make that a priority..... just a bunch of do's and don'ts...other places of worship....you are accountable for your self...if you want to have sex, drink, or whatever, that's between you and you...folks don't tattle tale on you....even if you go to another place of worship, you will find they ain't telling the truth either....

They try to stick to the bible...most religions try....but they always interpret it towards their doctrine...

You live with your parents...play the game...(if you want...free will, you know)....

Try not to worry or be affected by the shunning...the friends would speak if Gustopos weren't looking....they like to obey....most likely most of them never obeyed their parents...so now they are making up for it...

Again, play the game...get educated, because that's the only way today to land a job.....you can get a higher education and get a good job...but don't fall into the pit of being greedy and enough is never enough....look at the many rich folks, they are unhappy....what do they have,...the have things...God is not the God of the WT...and Jesus is not The Jesus of the WT....the way they portray them....the bible itself explains who both of them are, folks need nobody to interpret the bible...we can read now...

Anyway, too long to read....I know..again, you came to the right place. Some great and intelligent people on here...take the positive...

Tor

16

"You are my witnesses says Jehovah"

by NikL in

jw
friends

"you are my witnesses says jehovah".. this is going to show you how poor my knowledge of the bible has been.. i thought there was a scripture that says the quoted phrase (at least in nwt).

i could swear that i heard it for years quoted in talks.. i went to find it this morning and found nothing of the sort.

am i an anomaly or do any of you remember this as well?.

tor1500

Hi,

That's the scripture they use to represent themselves as chosen....Just wait...when a movie comes out it's said soon to be at a theatre near you....Just give it some time...soon to be on a tee shirt....that verse will be only in part...it will say...in big bold letter...We are your witnesses...says Jehovah (God)....that will be on the front of the tee shirt and the back of course...in small print...JW.org...The entire world are writing their feelings on tee shirts....and the world does seep into the hall..

Oh, I forgot to add, after the says, Jehovah..Is.43:10-12....they will add that like they do at the KH....

See right there in Is. it says we is chosen....we are bible based...witnesses are not bible based, they force themselves into the bible..they insert themselves when and where necessary to prove they are chosen..

NOT!!!!

Tor

tor1500

Posts by tor1500

NOT!!!!