Posts by tor1500

46

Believers: How do you know your view of your chosen holy book is the correct one?

by punkofnice in

don't start fighting, darlings.

i am genuinely curious.

after all i was a jobo 50 years and thought the wbt$ was 100% correct.. i ask this because i see that, for example, christian denominations (or whatever), likely have differing interpretations of the same writing.

tor1500

Hi All,

The Bible is a story of good and bad. No matter what version you own of the Bible it's the same story.

All it really says is how we should treat one another. The story of the man who owed money and his debtor forgave his debt. Now the guy that has been forgiven .... now does he forgive others of their debt..... heck no....he goes and pressures others to pay him so he gets forgiveness it don't give none? Yes, folks there it is, do we need the Bible to tell us that, but you know what there are plenty of people out there that need to be told to love and forgive. If the Bible didn't tell them, they wouldn't have the decency to do it.

Just like we need holidays so we can get together with our families. Most humans are into themselves. We give our kids 365 a year but the great powers,that be dictate to us when to be nice because we just don't know. Yes there are many people in religions that mean well but the majority are mean spirited and the only way they may see the light that their religion is not the truth is when someone steps on their toes and they ain't so adamant anymore.

Heres the thing everyone thinks they are right, their God is bigger and better than your God. 2 christians talking.... I believe in God. The other says so do I. They talk about how good it is to be a Christian and find out they are on the same page with their beliefs, finally one says hey I go to worship on Saturday the other says I go on sundays, they part saying we can't be friends we attend worship on different days.

Thats Christianity attitude. We must agree.

Tor

32

I'm writing a letter to my country's branch

by Ray Frankz in

hi everyone.. well, i have some good news.

after having a terrible moment arguing with my mom about the 1914 teaching and all it evolves (she get really upset and i felt great regret for starting the argument) she came to me next day and started talking with a much more open mind, and she talked about a lot of concerns too.. she and my father naivily expressed the wish to write to bethel to ask about 607bc.

i told in all the possible ways it wouldn't work.

tor1500

@deegee,

That's what I thought. Umm, well, since they are writing a letter why not email or contact the museums to see if they have any documentation.

If you want to prove to them it didn't fall in 607. To me that might raise a brow, if a Jw with no education can find this out, uh oh. I have a old set of encyclopedias and they say 587 or something like that. Wonder how many Jw's that live where they could find out this information, even care to look it up.

To all,

Great advice. But I say have solid proof that they can't wiggle out of, then just sit back. Since we are not educated we don't have money like that just to jump on a plane and find out for ourselves.

Tor

32

I'm writing a letter to my country's branch

by Ray Frankz in

hi everyone.. well, i have some good news.

after having a terrible moment arguing with my mom about the 1914 teaching and all it evolves (she get really upset and i felt great regret for starting the argument) she came to me next day and started talking with a much more open mind, and she talked about a lot of concerns too.. she and my father naivily expressed the wish to write to bethel to ask about 607bc.

i told in all the possible ways it wouldn't work.

tor1500

Hi All,

Has anyone ever been to that side of the world? I think the only thing that could convince any JW is to see a document that stated the fall of Babylon. Not American records it has to come from that side of the world. The org. cannot deny a country's own history.

So if any of you know how to contact that side or go over there maybe proof can be found. If a foreigner wanted to know about America he or she would go to the source, who would know better then our own records. Not to say because of computers you can let your fingers do the walking. But because the org. always disputes that bring them or show on Jw sites like these the real truth not through American eyes. Lurkers will tell other lurkers and so on.

If I knew where to go over there to find it I would.

Tor

50

Jehovah's people are not happy people

by Phoebe in

jw
friends

i finally stopped attending the meetings about 4 months go.

i won't be going back - ever.. but i've decided the best reply to the watchtower is to be happy and i do try to be happy every day even thought i wasted my entire life on this religion.

i cherish every day, practice mindfulness and do my best to be content with the life i have.. it is only now that i see that most jws i know are deeply unhappy people.

tor1500

Hi,

Oh but they are, according to them. It's all a put on. They are not happy because they are suppressed. They know something is wrong but they suppress their thoughts and so outside they appear happy but so depressed inside.

Witnesses are not equipped to deal with life, just everyday life exasperates them, it could be just waiting on line. You see they pretend to have peace and be patient but in reality the majority of witnesses don't have the fruitage of the spirit. Most are selfish and mean spirited. That's why we hear so many stories of how many were treated, add up all the stories, witnesses are not nice people. That's why if you know someone that is not a witness they don't want you to tell the negative stuff. Why? Because they want people to believe they are someone else, once they love bomb you, then you are trapped.

Most witnesses don't have a joyful bone in their body, they only see the negative. The only positive view they hold is for their own hide.

The thought of death with no return scares the average Jw to death. The nuts don't even believe in heaven but only for a few. Imagine hearing time after time it's the end and then it doesn't come.... how happy could a person be always hearing that and preaching that. We have exhausted our territory so much so folks are going where the need is great, just to get hours. Our territory is dried up and the neighbors know who we are and know when we are coming.

I think the organization knows the preaching work COULD stop, but then the end would have to come, ain't that what Jesus said. Jesus is just the ransom what would he know, they are waiting to hear from Jehovah but he told us to listen and follow his son.

Would you be happy knowing the end is now, no now, no tomorrow, no soon, this can be very disconcerting.

Tor

6

Is the org. Like Jehovah or Jesus?

by tor1500 in

jw
friends

was thinking.

this is jehovah's org.

so now let's take a look at jehovah's character, he gets angry yet he forgives sometimes a lot sometimes not so much but got to admit, he always sent a warning.

tor1500

Hi All,

As usual great comments. I start topics at times to get a different view point. I am on the inside so this is just a one sided take of what I see.

They are under the law, they need the law to keep from breaking the law. But when they about to burst as someone said they teach that Jesus was the end of the law for them, no the anointed, no the little flock, no the great crowd.... whatever.

It is true they are trying to appeal to a younger audience, so the smoke and mirrors are that we are like Jesus but.... and most of us can fill in the blanks. Same ole org that sees the Bible as a bunch of rules to control the sheep, because if you don't follow the rules.... we won't be your friend no more.... sounds so mature, uh?

I like all your points and keep them in mind.

Guess their hearts will never be changed from being mean Spirited must be their default personality button.

Tor

6

Is the org. Like Jehovah or Jesus?

by tor1500 in

jw
friends

was thinking.

this is jehovah's org.

so now let's take a look at jehovah's character, he gets angry yet he forgives sometimes a lot sometimes not so much but got to admit, he always sent a warning.

tor1500

Hi Ttwswf ,

That is a good point. Another treasure I can put in my anti Jw notes.

As witnesess say when you point out something they have bee reading for years in the Bible. So they just say.... so true. And your answer hit it on the nail.

Tor

6

Is the org. Like Jehovah or Jesus?

by tor1500 in

jw
friends

was thinking.

this is jehovah's org.

so now let's take a look at jehovah's character, he gets angry yet he forgives sometimes a lot sometimes not so much but got to admit, he always sent a warning.

tor1500

Hi All,

Was thinking. This is Jehovah's org. So now let's take a look at Jehovah's character, he gets angry yet he forgives sometimes a lot sometimes not so much but got to admit, he always sent a warning. We are the same sometimes we forgive and sometimes we don't. At times we forgive when we think Jehovah should have. Jehovah showed we imitate more than we think.

Now here comes Jesus, he was perfect according to Jehovah and if you read the Bible he was. Who do you know that would wash the feet of his betrayer? Nobody.

Now Jehovah says imitate my son. He is nice. I'm made him in my image but trust me imitate him not so much me, I can take care of myself.

So, the org. imitated Jehovah so much they forgot to be Christ'ians instead of Jehovah'ians, he performed the resurrection he was not the resurrection. Jehovah wants us to be thankful to him for providing the son but to exceptionally to his son Jesus for going all the way.

I think the org is slooooowly trying to be more like Jesus because Jehovah don't take no mess.

Just a thought, what do you think?

Tor

5

Jesus he knows me: jw.org

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

today i read some postings about the changes in jw land, moving to a evangelical organization, and i have to say that jw.org is more and more recognizable in the genisis video clip jesus he knows me.. back then way overdone, now much like jw.org.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=35k6vqrt67g.

g..

tor1500

Hi All,

I am in the hall and what I can say is that Jesus is subliminal being added to our literature. Because they can no longer deny that Jesus is the good news. Even Jehovah said believe in my son. That is in black and white. They even once said, "What would Jesus do"? I think they are starting to recognize they are not very Christ like because so busy trying to make Jehovah's name known, which he said he would do that, just preach and imitate my son, that is what the ministry should be about.

Again, I say it's all subliminal. I've been seeing the difference now, before you could not clap for a reinstated person, now you can. Where did they read in the Bible about that. Guess what the change was in the public edition of the WT. At one time they did not pray for others that were not witnesses or students, now we can. Now they have scriptures to back these up, but what scriptures did they use in the first place to back up, we can't.

Anyway, they are slowly turning the chariot in the direction of Jesus. I mean very slowly. One could miss it. I work in the corporate world so it's the same as the Jw org. Shady.

They are so hung up on the name of Jehovah, they lost the message of Jesus, he died for our sins and was raised from the dead. Now I don't know about any of you, but wouldn't it be nice if we were raised from the dead and lived happily ever after. Ummm?

Tor

26

My Introduction

by Ray Frankz in

this is my first post and i'm feeling like i'm doing something bad big time!

i know on my mind it isn't, but the feelings are less manageable.. well, since i'm still a jw it's better not to give too much info, but i'm from brazil.. i've grown-up in the religion and practicly all my family, my closest friends and my girlfriend are loyal jws.

i used to be a regular pioneer but i still have a service privilege on my congregation.. i've had questions about the teachings of the wt since i was 10, but naturally i always pushed it away as it were "questioning the holy organization".. i started a friendship with some people in a course i took and we talked about a lot of subjects.

tor1500

Hi RF,

Welcome, you have come to the right place. I like you are not ready to leave because I do believe in God and his son Christ Jesus. This is where until that day may or may not come if you think you are spiritually weak when you don't agree with them. You will come on this site state your feelings and concerns and find out you are not spiritually weak, it's their interpretation that is weak and holes can be poked in it if they could take it.

You are responsible for your own relationship with God, not the orgs. If you notice they pushing personal relationship with Jehovah and more personal study and meditation. This is for you. I'm in as well so I see and feel what you do. I have conditional friends in the hall and unconditional friends that are not in the hall. Most of the friends like me so if I left, I think they would miss me after awhile. Then would call me one by one because I'm pleasant to talk to.

As I say keep what you need and toss out what you don't. If you or I wish to leave, nothing or nobody can say yea or nay.

Tor

37

Illogical illustration of “the rich man and the poor man Lazarus” (Luke 16:19-31)

by venus in

illustration of the rich man and the poor man lazarus indirectly hints that the materially rich would go to hell and the poor ones to heaven.

if one reads between the lines, one can discern that this illustration is a later adoption intended to exploit the rich using the poor as a means.. i have friends who are extremely rich (net-worth in billions) and also who are materially very poor, and have found both are living in hell because of their attitude.

the excess the rich have prevents them from enjoying it (and even the affluent find a huge gap between income and desires, hence find themselves often in conflict and competition) and whereas the deprived compare themselves with the haves which prevents them also from enjoying their lives.. jesus would not provide an illustration that undermines his own most favored statement: “happy are those poor in spirit because kingdom of heavens belongs to them” (mathew 5:3) and his own explanation that heaven is the condition of one’s heart (luke 17:21) obviously he had in mind those who do not have the baggage of attachment and sense of possession, those few people of simplicity that belong to both the categories—the rich and the poor. simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, a stage where every possession serves a purpose living a life that is deliberate and intentional (not one that someone else has scripted for them) and wanting to feel more complete (not more objects of the world), at ease.

tor1500

Hi All,

The Bible is life lessons. Rich people are not always happy, they have the comforts of life but no place to rest their heart. They are never sure if they are truly liked or is it their money. Nothing wrong with being rich but like anything it has its down side.

Jesus said the poor will always be with you. I think that is to keep humans charitable, otherwise and let's be honest if we never saw how others live we would never be concerned. There are countries that has always been poor and as much help they get from folks who feel they should help, they are still poor. If countries like Africa ever became prosperous and everyone had water and healthcare, where and what would us humans do to look benevolent?

The poor shows us how much some of us take for granted. I work with rich folks too, they make the money and spend half of it in the therapist office telling the doctor they thought money was the answer and why are they not happy.

On the other hand witness play the poor card because it makes them look more pious.

As many have said Jesus spoke in parables because his crowd was not that intelligent because you know the Pharisees made sure of that. So Jesus spoke in a way the common folk would get the message. When you tell people to change and be nice and treat each other nice, the only way you can explain that is put the shoe on the other foot. If you can help someone do it, because wouldn't you appreciate if someone helped you, if you needed. I love the parable of the man that owed but his master forgave him his debt, but that same man that was forgiven did not himself forgive. The story is plain and simple. Jesus was saying don't do to people that you don't want done to you. He always applied it to the person to stir their conscience.

We can pick the Bible apart point out contradictions but really people none of that matters, the Bible says love God with all your heart and love your neighbors as yourself. Some folks don't believe in God and that's your choice but to not take heed of the second part, just means there is no love in you and that could be that one may not love themselves, so how could you love others. It's nothing wrong with loving yourself but not to the point of conceit. Some people love themselves so much they don't have any room for anyone else.

Wonder if there are any people who are rich and well adjusted? If not give me their money. I would hope that I would do the right thing and not let it go to my head.

Money just provides the comforts of life but does not promise happiness only if you don't make a lot but are able to survive and keep food in your tummy and a roof over their heads that can make one happy.... not to sleep outdoors.

The rich like to give to different institutions but they won't give it all, why? Because it would be easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. Some are passionate about their cause but won't give up living in luxury.

Tor