Posts by tor1500

46

Some apostates are coming across as crazed psychopaths

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

i'm not sure whether or not my view on this is correct so please leave your input.

in recent months i've been viewing youtube videos.

again, it might just be my view but there has been an increased amount of random people grabbing a camera and doing vlogs.

tor1500

Hi All,

I've never looked at one of those videos. But I may not agree with their method, yet I'm not without understanding it. Many of them feel they were mislead. We must not follow man....man always has his own agenda. It takes time to see that if you live long enough...doesn't the bible say....Man cannot direct his own paths..Many witnesses in & out suffer from suppression. Even though they are in the truth so they think but not even allowed to question the answers...that leads to many other issues in mind and in body. If you need to be validated all the time....the org. is the best place to be....you will get patted on the back just reading a scripture...then at the end of the meeting, someone comes up to you & say, I enjoyed your reading of the scriptures...give me a break....I'm an adult..I can read...now I would understand if it was as young child just starting to read. This is an org. of needy people (not all) that need a lot of attention. They must announce how many hours they did, they did letter writing...telephone witnessing..& so on...all for their own validation and say see me Jehovah, see me...I'm preaching....again, many that come out are angry for many reasons and one of them is that they aren't important anymore...the org.makes one feel special, they feel they know the bible, they feel they can change folks & remember They are chosen.....not the jews....so being in an org. that puffs you up with pride (& many of them had pride issues anyway)...The org. makes one feel in this big world they are special. but what I find is that most of them don't have faith, yes they can preach & teach it but they don't have it for themselves...they have hope without faith, but they are too weak to deal with the real world.

So are apostates coming off crazy, yeah maybe so. But most of us know that witnesses feel that if you leave you'll go crazy & they are right...someone on this site said just because you are not a witness anymore you don't have to prove them right...still believe in God. Do something for someone else...soup kitchen, volunteer work, but remember witnesses don't do anything unless seen or counted....it would never occur to some x-witnesses to serve someone other than yourself....Most Christians miss the story of the Good Samaritan...who is your neighbor any and everybody, not only your brothers & sisters....JW's are inbred...

I'm one...but I stay with them then I move away....they are not happy people....trust me it's a put on...I'm happy & I'm trying not to let them take my joy...They would rub off on me not the opposite...People show their anger in different ways....those who show crazy on youTube are mad at the org & at themselves for doubting that feeling...it's called a gut feeling...& that's what the gut is for. Many read the bible & the lit. & saw it, but wanted to stay in a org. that's is supposedly chosen by Jehovah....that's why many stay, they think they are chosen & when something happens to THEM...

Well that's another story

Tor

15

Hello

by midnight in

jw
friends

hi i am posting for the first time although i've been looking for a few years , i was born into a witness family left when i was 12 with my parents went back at 22 pioneered became ms started to have major doubts around 2002 when there was a lot of talk about blood fractions etc have been hit and miss since i'm extremely mentally confused as to wether or not this really is jehovah's earthly organisation , i find life hard facing up to mortality etc not having the new system hope , what nailed your decision to leave ?

how did you cope with world problems on news etc ?

how did you fill the void ?

tor1500

Hi Midnight,

Welcome. I'm a still in witness...new I might add too. You will get a lot of good information from this forum & others as well that tell the truth about the truth.

I don't believe this is God's org. I don't believe God is partial in that way because humans have a problem with pride & boasting. So when I made that decision it wasn't God's org. I began to relax a bit. I feel many witnesses are witnesses for many reasons & one is being a part of God's org. is a badge of honor. The question if it wasn't would some of them still be there. When you were in what was your motivation, did you believe you were in God's org. or was it that you felt superior to others. I feel if you want to serve God, you do it because you LOVE him. Not because some human has said God chose us....& it's the truth...the truth is not a doctrine or an organization but the truth is in you Midnight....the bible is a mirror of who you really are, not who you are at the hall. The scriptures reveal the truth about you. Churches, synagogues & other places of worship only have pieces of the puzzle, you have to put it together yourself.

I'm trying to get to your core of who you really are....dig deep into yourself. Do you Love God? Do you think God is the God that the JW's portray, some type of God that we obey silently, like an Idol. God wants us to interact with him...we see that from the OT...The Jews spoke to God, even if they were wrong.

God loves us unconditionally, he doesn't care what denomination you are. When it's time for you to account for yourself..being a JW isn't a password. It's what type of person you were here on earth. So you say, if you leave how could you fill the gap....ever thought of giving back without counting time ? The world is full places where you CAN SERVE...To serve someone else & to give of yourself makes one come out of themselves. You could go to a hospital & volunteer...read to the elderly, hold a child that had an addictive parent, there is so much in a hospital & or nursing home you could do. Soup kitchen, helping homeless, helping those who have drug problems, again, so much to do...but Midnight, you will be doing this for God and mankind...& guess what? This is not about counting time. In this life, you will serve somebody.

My take on religion...when man tells you what God wants, it's usually what they want. The issue of your mortality, this is something no one knows .....can you live with that? Does the fact that we may not come back scare you, well Midnight, join the rest of the world...Death is a scary thing...we can't imagine that our magnificent self will never come back. Think about this nobody ever came back to tell us. That is one of the mysteries of life we all have to deal with. JW's just want to tie it all up in a bow & say, don't worry, you'll come back.

Midnight, you cannot exist in this world without strength. Being a witness makes you weak to deal with everyday life, they stick their heads in the sand & just wait, but when the tough times come they can't handle it so they say, they'll be glad when the new system comes. Midnight, witnesses will say that with the least inconvenience they experience...don't let them have to wait on line or the waitress took too long, or if they have to pay a bill. This life we live now takes Faith and each time we go through something it makes us stronger, one can't be stronger if anytime a little inconvenience arises, they whine & call for a new system. Do you want to be strong to make it until the new system if it in deed happen ?

You ask how to fill the void....again I say do something for others that you don't have to count. Many of witness still don't know that the ransom is a gift & you don't have to work for it. This may be hard for you, some witnesses have not forgiven themselves so they feel going out preaching they can work their guilt off. Again, I'm trying to appeal to your inner most self. Why were you a witness, how did you treat people who were not a witness, you see if you don't address these things, you won't be a witness anymore but you'll still have traits of being superior.

Don't be afraid of life...this is all we have for now...The bible is to help one through life & it shows how we are to treat one another. The org. wants folks to be morally clean, but what I find, that this makes one bitter. Have you noticed some of the witnesses are bitter ? Notice who witnesses are...do you want to be a judgmental person or a person like Jesus. He didn't belong to an org. he preached to everyone, he helped & healed everyone, he touched lepers, all this & he knew he was sent to die, did Jesus have an issue with mortality, how did Jesus cope with what was going on in his day. Did he join a group who only stuck with each other...Midnight, read the Greek scriptures & read them for what they are, leave the JW literature alone...The bible is really a simple book, but the hard part is to do it.

Yes, get help, but when you do take the help....in the end, the bible is what you follow, not man, isn't it in the bible that man cannot direct his own steps ?

I think I wrote too much, but I hope I gave you something to think about...SERVE SOMEONE, NOT YOURSELF.

Tor

42

Elders getting burnt up.

by biblexaminer in

the elders in this area are getting burned out.

i have overheard comments that demonstrate this, but in my dealings with them, i clearly see it.

they can't keep it straight.

tor1500

HI All,

I started a topic a while back...are the FDS beating us...many replied that sure they are, when the #'s are down they put more pressure on everyone...

So the Elders are burnt out...couple of scriptures come to mind...one is...to those much is given ( or in their case reaching out for more), much is expected. The other scripture is about the FDS beating the slaves...& that's what the society is doing, beating the Elders...whip whip, do more, do more...There is a part of me that feels sorry for them...but on the other hand...they reached out for it...many of them maybe just wanted to be Joe blow in the congregation, but noooooooo.....they wanted to reach out for privileges....& did they get'em. Just like reaching out to be a pioneer....they reach out for it, then complain about they didn't make their hours this month..I really want to say to them, you did it to yourself...why? What was your motivation to reach out to pioneer, was it to hear your name announced, to be a part of the pioneer click where you are now in the IN-Crowd....As many of us know, some of the JW's get their cudo's at the hall, at their jobs, they are just a spoke in the wheel...& many being a spoke in the wheel is not enough for them...they must shine...wherever they are. Some of the Elders reached out because of their wives who wanted to be a part of the muckity mucks...

Yes, they are burnt out...sometimes, they assign talks to folks on the wrong days...they say they are going to give you a shepherd call, they can't keep up with the chariot of MAN...Not to mention, they know the insides of the Society, don't think many of them don't know about the ARC, they do, but just imagine being an elder & knowing all these things & getting up on the stage & act as if he's got it together....talk about pressure....

I'm glad to be a spoke in the wheel...at the job & at the hall...I try to go out in the ministry when possible....

One of the brothers asked me if I'd consider being a pioneer...I said no not now...because I'd much rather be a good private (publisher) than a bad General (pioneer)....then I quoted the scripture where it mentions, if you are faithful with a little, Luke 16:10:The person faithful in what is least (publisher hours) is faithful also in much (if I decide to pioneer), and the person unrighteous in what is least is unrighteous also in much. So if Jehovah sees fit for me to reach out....he'll place it on my heart...until then, I'll be faithful in what is least. Guess what? The elder, was silent...& that's why I said it...to keep him quiet....The best thing to do with witnesses is answer with a scripture...especially one that backs up your statement....I find when they want to paint you into a corner, answer them with a scripture that they can't deny...once we were out Public witnessing....we were standing in an area & another church was not to far from us....so one of the friends started to complain about them by saying, we have the truth & they are out there giving out tracts & such....they aren't preaching the truth....well, I couldn't resist, the other Christians were quietly doing their Christian thing like we do...So I went to the scriptures again and quoted another one....Luke 9:49-50:In response John said: “Instructor, we saw someone expelling demons by using your name, and we tried to prevent him, because he is not following with us.”+ 50 But Jesus said to him: “Do not try to prevent him, for whoever is not against you is for you.” Not a word was said from that point...I love using the scriptures to make a point when they are being high & mighty & judgmental.

Sorry for going off course...so yes, the Elders are burnt out & if the end don't come soon we won't need no GT, the Elders will just go up in smoke all by themselves...

But we must remember to not rejoice over someone else's come upp'ins...even IF WE THINK they deserve it...

Because at the end of the day, it could be one of us...

Tor

29

Will Governing Body stop preaching work?

by neat blue dog in

at this year's annual meeting (2016), david "mark" sanderson asks the audience the question, "are you determined to keep on preaching with us until we say the work is completed?

" to which they respond with applause.

do you think that stopping the preaching work will ever be a part of the gb's long range plan?

tor1500

Hi There,

I don't think so, because if the end didn't come as they thought, then they would be seen for who they really are...Men who think that they have a hook-up with Jehovah/Jesus. Because you do realize the GB's think they are chosen by God/Jesus. So if they decide to call off the preaching work & say, well, got a text from God/Jesus & they said...pack it up Guys...call your sheep, tell'em, it's over....stop preaching...So they stop & nothing happens...how will they spin that....many of us will say, I thought you were inspired by the Holy Spirit/God/Jesus & you told us that when the preaching work stops, then the end will come....we stopped preaching a while ago...so where's the end..You see, the society will not be able to wiggle out of that...they were able to spin the GT coming anytime for a long time....but not this one...they will be found out. They could never spin this without the flock not suspecting, they aren't who they say they are. They will be looked at as more than imperfect...the flock will start to see them as liars...They cannot continue to dangle the carrot on a stick for that long...

If they do, they will have to come up with something brilliant to explain, why it didn't happen. They can't say a new light because if the preaching work is stopped you will hear 8 million folks sigh....& you would never be able to get them back out to do door to door, because most of us see it's not working...Oh there will be a few die-hards that will loose their minds, because going out in service validates them, plus many of them are so mean their own meanness runs them out the house, can't even stay home with themselves.

But the Society is very crafty....I don't sleep on them. I work for an organization so the way the society is run is just like a secular organization.

The FDS is beating the flock because of low membership...they have given us tons of tools to bring in folks & they are not coming...& they think it's us, but it's not us, the folks behind the door know who we are & life is tough enough. Week after week we talk about how it's easy to start a bible study...use this device, say this, keep it simple, don't ask to return just return...use only the bible...show them this video & so on...& none of it is working...why....because the world is more informed now....they can look JW's up. Most of the time the folks that come him are so depressed & they have come to the end of the line so, here we come knocking & we love bomb them..they don't stand a chance...

Since the JW.org. many folks study on line, they don't want a commitment...we always say, there is no commitment for a bible study...but that's just a lie...nothing but bait...

So to answer your question...Maybe one day, but not now...but I could be wrong...

Tor

14

The Noblest Hope?

by JW_Rogue in

from this week's wt study:.

all of us, whether of the anointed or of the “other sheep,” hope to see the fulfillment of god’s original purpose and the sanctification of jehovah’s name.

(john 10:16; matt.

tor1500

HI All,

Great comments....so true...witnesses want the end to come because they just can't cope with life. That's all it is. They also think they won't have to die, most think they'll just cross over. I'm a witness & most of them don't even have the patience to stand on line or any of life's little inconveniences. They complain about any and everything, feeling like they are the only ones going through it. They complain when they spend money yet, I say, we have more money than most, we don't celebrate holidays. They just want the GT to come soon so they can say they were right. Because being right is the most important thing to a witness & being able to rattle off scriptures, just to show how smart they are.

@ Sparrowdown...Ezk 36:23 & Ezk. 38:23...Jehovah said HE WOULD SANCTIFY HIS NAME...so why are JW's doing it too ? We are supposed to turn folks attention to Jesus Christ....we are supposed to give the good news that he died for our sins....Jehovah don't need us to clear his name, that's why he sent his son...He said, Listen Michael or Jesus or whatever humans call you...I've got a bad rap, do me a favor, go down there, & clear my name for me....they'll think it's me, but no matter....tell them you are my son & that if they want an appointment with me...they got to contact you son. Now, there's a little hitch....I'm going to have to let you be killed & son, I'm sorry, but it's going to hurt...I would rescue you from the stake, cross, again, who knows, humans can't get anything straight, but I won't be able to save you...you'll be tortured....again, I can't save you, because I have a beef with this guy, Satan, you remember him ? Anyway son, you won't be dead for long only 3 days....That's my story of the bible...simplified...lol..

Can't blame witnesses for who they are...they don't read the bible...they recite it..they are spoon fed...me, I check the bible against what they say....& I've found out...The SOCIETY ISN'T RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING....They read too much into the scriptures.

There is nothing NOBLE minded about a JW...most not all just give it lip service.

Tor

29

JW's arrogant as f...?!

by Alostpuppydog in

has anybody else noticed that almost all the jdubs are super arrogant?

i mean even from just the basic ones to especially the elders and the overseers omg.

they act like they are so high and mighty that you should just worship them.

tor1500

Hi All,

Of course they are....it's in their genes. After all they are carrying Jehovah's name...like a woman, who brags she is married & got her man now....& the rest of you, what's wrong with you that you ain't married yet ?

They would be this if they weren't witnesses. They would be the ones in churches fighting to sit in the front and be upset if their name wasn't mentioned for doing xy&z. Many witnesses need validation. They strive for attention & when given then shrink back & look humble as of to say, I wasn't looking for any attention, because you know, Thanks to Jehovah.

I am currently a witness...many of the friends love to talk to me, because I don't judge, I just listen, but at times I say, even if this isn't God's org. it wouldn't bother me...because I don't put any stock in man...then I say, what would you do if this wasn't God's org. They are stopped dead in their tracks....I make them think...I tell them, man cannot be trusted....but the bible can be. If a brother or any of the literature says something & it's not in the bible...then it's not true. Then they answer but God is using imperfect men...I say of course...but are they so imperfect that when the Holy Spirit speaks or inspires, are they deaf too? I think they don't get so angry because I say, I would still stay if it wasn't God's org. (That's to pacify them)LOL...I also make them think deeply of why they are in the org. Is it to follow man or God.

The Truth is not a building or an org. The Truth is in you...the bible does bring out certain truths about us that we may not want to admit. Do we gossip, are we stingy, are we nice, are we mean spirited, do we always look at others mistakes & not ours. Do we listen. Are we good to our families & friends... Are we good people ?

So to the original topic...yes they are arrogant...that's all they have. Someone on this site said JW's are weak individuals who cannot cope with the outside world...& that statement is so true. Again, I'm a witness, so this stuff on the site is true...I see it first hand.

I feel some come from some rocky homes or some type of mental illness...so they are doing the best they can. But they do think who the heck they are yet in the same breath say they are humble...NOT....

I think to be angry with witnesses is a waste....you can feel sorry for them and hope one day the real scriptures will open up to them & they'll really get the truth...they are looking outside of themselves for the truth...& they will never find it...The org. changes their views too much...

People need someone else to hate or look down on....that makes them feel better about themselves.

Tor

11

Are they beating us ???? According to Matt. 24:48..

by tor1500 in

jw
friends

it occurred to me the other day...the society is loading us up on all types of ways to reach others....jw.org, all types of literature, all types of different ideas, maybe you could use the tools jehovah gave us this way or perhaps you can use it that way, maybe you can volunteer, maybe you can go where the need is greater, maybe you can give more $$$, maybe you can give more time, maybe you can look at how you can be in the ministry more, maybe you can meditate more, maybe you can do this or that for your family study, maybe you can talk to a seasoned witness & find out how they.....& i know there are tons of other things maybe we can do....or yes, forgot this one, maybe you can quit your job....then maybe you can get some rest, because you can't serve jehovah when you are tired.

how can you get more rest if, you don't have no money to live indoors...anyway, with all these maybe's we can do..... it came to my mind that the gb isn't here as of yet & it seems the org.

is pressing the friends for bible studies...they are saying....we are giving you all these tools & so why are you not getting bible studies or return visits...it's almost as if they are brow-beating us...do more because the society has given you more...it's not us, folks just ain't listening to us at the door any more....they are not even opening up the door.

tor1500

Hi All,

Meant to say the GT isn't here yet...

Sorry

Tor

11

Are they beating us ???? According to Matt. 24:48..

by tor1500 in

jw
friends

it occurred to me the other day...the society is loading us up on all types of ways to reach others....jw.org, all types of literature, all types of different ideas, maybe you could use the tools jehovah gave us this way or perhaps you can use it that way, maybe you can volunteer, maybe you can go where the need is greater, maybe you can give more $$$, maybe you can give more time, maybe you can look at how you can be in the ministry more, maybe you can meditate more, maybe you can do this or that for your family study, maybe you can talk to a seasoned witness & find out how they.....& i know there are tons of other things maybe we can do....or yes, forgot this one, maybe you can quit your job....then maybe you can get some rest, because you can't serve jehovah when you are tired.

how can you get more rest if, you don't have no money to live indoors...anyway, with all these maybe's we can do..... it came to my mind that the gb isn't here as of yet & it seems the org.

is pressing the friends for bible studies...they are saying....we are giving you all these tools & so why are you not getting bible studies or return visits...it's almost as if they are brow-beating us...do more because the society has given you more...it's not us, folks just ain't listening to us at the door any more....they are not even opening up the door.

tor1500

Hi All,

It occurred to me the other day...the society is loading us up on all types of ways to reach others....JW.org, all types of literature, all types of different ideas, maybe you could use the tools Jehovah gave us this way or perhaps you can use it that way, maybe you can volunteer, maybe you can go where the need is greater, maybe you can give more $$$, maybe you can give more time, maybe you can look at how you can be in the ministry more, maybe you can meditate more, maybe you can do this or that for your family study, maybe you can talk to a seasoned witness & find out how they.....& I know there are tons of other things maybe we can do....or yes, forgot this one, maybe you can quit your job....then maybe you can get some rest, because you can't serve Jehovah when you are tired. How can you get more rest if, you don't have no money to live indoors...anyway, with all these maybe's we can do....

It came to my mind that THE GB isn't here as of yet & it seems the org. is pressing the friends for bible studies...they are saying....we are giving you all these tools & so why are you not getting bible studies or return visits...it's almost as if they are brow-beating us...do more because the society has given you more...it's not us, folks just ain't listening to us at the door any more....they are not even opening up the door. Some do, just to be polite, they let us talk, then we go back, & they aren't home or they are home but not interested, but don't want to be rude so they just don't open the door. It seems since the GB hasn't happened yet, so they society is pushing more for more #'s.

So again, I was thinking...they are not actually beating us physically, but mentally to think, something is wrong with us & we are not presenting the message properly....The brothers go on the stage with examples of how you could start a study, & they are effective...yes, on the stage. They are no more effective then the average friend.

How I see it, if folks aren't hungry or thirsty, you can't sell them food or water....folks only buy what they need, if they think they don't need it...they won't buy nor listen to it...

What do you say ?

Tor

43

If this system goes on.

by karter in

jw
friends

i heard my hard out jw sister say that for the 1st time in many years and i'm hearing more and more jw's saying that.

years ago when i was in they talked about the new system coming any minute..

tor1500

Hi All,

These 2 comments are right on target...Witnesses are about showing what they do. They want to appear righteous but inside, not a righteous bone in their body. When no one is around, do they pray ? UMMM...Ever notice they have to share they were out in service for such & such amount of time...how many return visits they have. If they just get home late from service, they have to call or text you to let you know they just got home..Most of witnesses, not all, suffer from Not getting enough attention or wanting more than they deserve. AKA: Needy...

So the 2 comments are so true...I'm a witness & I see it...It's like any organization....as long as you are seen, you don't have to really work, just make it look good. They cry broke but don't believe them...it's to look more holy.

GreatTeacher

I just ignore, as well. I think they partly do it as a show of righteousness, so I don't give them an audience.

Smiddy

Its a showy means of ones life , look how righteous I am publicly displaying my belief.

I think the friends are really starting to see it but don't want to let on...At our meeting, they were talking about the new facility in Warwick or is it Walkhill...but how well it's been built the sisters & brothers are really pitching in & how can you help, if you can't physically help...then send $$$$. One of the sisters & I (after the meeting) said, so why are we keeping a simple eye & they ain't....& she's a born in...I believe many are seeing the org. ask for money, update this & that...build, build, build...yet they say the end is near, if so why keep building ? Yep, the kool-aide is wearing off. But as we all know, can't say nothing..

I've said it all over this site...the only thing that keeps most is that it's God's organization...so they think. If you tell then it's not or they find out it's not...they would never be the same. That's the main reason that most if not the majority stay..I've heard them say, but this is God's organization, although he's using imperfect men. You see many witnesses have an "Who I think I am" attitude. It's in their genes, oh they play humble, but believe me, that's an act, I've seen the sweetest talking person, turn on a person like a rabid dog, in a blink of an eye. Most of them are just putting on....The scriptures say, put on the new personality, most of them just drape it on like a cap, then take it off, then to look religious, they put it on again...never to change who they are. Most of them remind me a female who is married because now they got a huuuusband...you poor single folks...because they carry the name of Jehovah, of which they named themselves, God didn't tell then nothing...all that to say....they are full of themselves & if they were not witnesses, they would be those same folks in the churches, looking for the best seats...

So, they may not know about THE ARC but the org. is shooting themselves in the foot regarding all this building. Friends are starting to see the obvious. Asking for $$$, building, etc. Yet, tell us, don't buy this or that, don't pursue higher education & on & on...In my congregation, most of the young ones go to college. Because on this side of the world, you need college to get a job at McDonalds...

The Arc may never have to come out...the building & $$$, just might wake up some...

Tor

44

The Jewish perspective of the OT according to poster David_Jay

by deegee in

i note your comments in the following threads regarding the jewish perspective on certain old testament (ot) events:.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5700922233585664/when-you-stop-think-about-why-would-gods-chosen-people-old-testament-need-army?page=1&size=10 ,.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6065451475927040/why-didnt-god-also-reveal-himself-canaanites-just-he-did-moses-burning-bush.

tor1500

Hi David_Jay,

You mirror my thoughts..."The way Jews see it, living honestly is more righteous than believing in things with all your heart but living a lie. It's what you do that matters because the world is effected by your actions...What matters is how you live your life.

Yes, this is what I believe...I kind of fell into being a witness...they say don't stand by the hole to close or too long...you just may fall in...bingo...that's what happened to me...I know what I'm into...I'm not blinded, so that's what makes me feel some type of freedom. I've learned so much from you & you make me feel that in my heart I got it...not the way the witnesses have it but the way God would like me to be, not a bunch of rules and regulations...Just be nice to folks, help when and where you can. Try to be a good person, & every day try to wake up to be a better person than you were the day before.

I find most other folks from other religions are nice folks...witnesses are a special breed of people that is attracted to this religion, haven't put my finger on it yet. So far, most of them are sickly, whiners, don't want to work & very judgmental. Oh yes, inbred...this is just to name a few. I once listened to this TV pastor, he said...back when their was leprosy they put folks together because they all had the same disease...so he brought it up to date...he said..What man can't cure they colonize...that's how I feel about witnesses...too long to go into details...but I feel he is right...I know you know what I mean.

I don't think this is the right place for me....but in time ...we shall see...again, thanks for being on this forum, I think you are a breath of fresh air...

Tor