Posts by tor1500

45

What did NOT get you out?

by problemaddict 2 in

i realize this is odd, but a "how you woke up" thread and the personal stories that are told which i know we all enjoy, made me think of this.

in helping my wife and a couple others get the ball rolling, i realized the thing that resonated with me, didn't even move the needle with them.

i wanted to rail on and on about blood, because that was my conduit to waking up, but for my wife it was about shunning.

I'm not out as of yet....but what is making me want out is that the JW's are too narrow in this Christianity thing...too limited...you can go out in the ministry, write letters, go where the need is greater, build whatever but it's all for the org...nothing for mankind....that's why many witnesses feel they don't do enough because WE DON'T...How can one hear what is going on all over the world and not want to help in some small way....even volunteer work...

I agree with Scratchme1010....it's about feelings of belonging....many are just there because they feel there is that word again, that it's God's org...that's the bottom line....also, some stay because they have lazy brains and the org. feeds them so they don't have to think then one day, they begin to think and so the bricks loosen...for some nothing bothers them unless it eventually bothers them...it's ok to shun or if a brother said this or that to you until it became you....

So what did not get me out....ME.

TOR

18

Human element seen in 10 commandments

by venus in

i appreciate 10 commandments because they try to ensure law and order in the society.

however, i have problem with introductory statements that say: “you shall have no other gods before[a] me… you shall not bow down to them or worship them; for i, the lord your god, am a jealous god, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.” (exodus 20:3-6).

1) this contradicts the characteristics of god described in mathew 5:44-48 where love is described as loving everyone without thinking whether others reciprocate or not.

tor1500

@venus,

You said it in a nutshell. Love your last paragraph... profound. Religion/Spirituality are to make you a better person loving, kind, forgiveness all the fruituge of the spirit.

God gave us approximately 600 commandments in the OT, we couldn't do them, a lot of sacrifices so God gave us 10 written in stone which was broken before it came down the mountain then God saw we couldn't do them so he broke it down to two. Love God with all your heart and others like you do yourself. Want to stump a witness just say that we can't expect others to like us until we like ourselves. Hence that's why it's hard to get bible studies, folks see through them.

Tor

36

There is no Holy Spirit.

by hoser in

there is no holy spirit.

i lead a double life.

i post on apostate web sites, swear like a sailor, covertly subvert the watchtower religion and do many other things i'd rather not mention.

tor1500

Hi All,

I like the comment where how could there be a Holy Spirit if most of the brothers can't remember names. So true they even forget their wives names. They call their wives honey, darling, or other pet names.

So let's explore the Holy Spirit. Jw's say it's a force others say it's the third part of the trinity. Ummm what could it be or what whom could it be? For lurkers and those who still believe in God but not the God the org. portrays. Let's take a look at what the Bible says, shall we. It's always good to use the Bible for those lurk or those Jw's that need proof. They can call you an apostate if they want to but all you have to do is use the Bible and let their brains short circuit and all you did was show them a scripture. Acts 13:2: as they ministered to Jehovah (see that's wrong right there. It should read as the ministered about Jehovah how do you minister God. What do he need from us. Anyway back to the scripture "and fasting the Holy Spirit (in small letters) SAID, set aside for ME Barnabas and Saul for the work I have called them. The Holy Spirit is supposed to help you do what you can't do. You have to ask for it. It's a helper. But you have to ask for it. The Jw's can't ask for it because they are told what it is which makes no sense and that's why they don't get no help.

So by this one scripture we see the Holy Spirit is a what? That's how you approach it with a fellow Jw and leave it there to mess with their brains. Once I asked them about one of the books in the Bible where the character died but I asked who wrote this book in the Bible if the person died and was able to tell of the events that happened after their death, the Jw said the dead man. But I said it seemed the story was told in the 3rd person. That's when I knew most witnesses have pretzel logic.

Now is there a Holy Spirit, that's a personal question because some people didn't let the org take away their beliefs. We all have our reasons for believing or not believing, I am not here to judge anyone. We must not allow the org to make us bitter but if we were able to survive and get out it should make us better not bitter.

Tor

35

Is JW.org unbreakable

by UnshackleTheChains in

i ask this question for good reason.

let's face it, despite all the books, videos, forums, court cases, hearings, protests etc that have been exposing the society for many years.

jw.org continues to roll on almost 'it seems' unscathed.. for example, just walk into any kingdom hall there is not so much as a whisper about anything that has been exposed outside of jw land.

tor1500

Hi,

I've been saying this for the longest on this site....Why has the Catholic Religion been exposed not the JW's Why no mainstream media has exposed the org...yes they have been in different newspapers but everyone knows when the New York Times or the Daily News talk people listen...None of the major tv stations pick up on the JW scandal except the Russian thing....I'm saying this not so much that the congregation will believe but at least they will know that these venues will have facts to back it up...and many will now believe some of the rumors they heard in the halls..

Plus its a social club for those who think we are in the last days.

Tor

43

The denial of 1975 when and how did they go about it.

by Crazyguy in

i was pretty young in 1975, all i remember was a few complaining at the hall after and those at the door that razed us over it.

does anyone remember how they went about denying it and when this started.

i do remember a scripture in psalms about people being mighty and living longer so this was used.

tor1500

@Juan Viejo2,

You have proved the point....the org. pointed to the date 1975.....as Perry Mason would say, I rest my case....the witnesses were asked where did they get the date and under great duress, they admitted the org....open and shut case....and again, WT I mentioned 2013, says in the past they did point to dates....so they again, have shot themselves in the foot....

I just want to get my facts straight when one of the koolaide drinking friends come to me with a story that sounds like # 2...

Tor

43

The denial of 1975 when and how did they go about it.

by Crazyguy in

i was pretty young in 1975, all i remember was a few complaining at the hall after and those at the door that razed us over it.

does anyone remember how they went about denying it and when this started.

i do remember a scripture in psalms about people being mighty and living longer so this was used.

tor1500

Hi,

You all answered the question, the org. ran ahead of the scriptures and mentioned the year 1975....Stay alive until 75 or Stay alive to 75, however its worded..they said it...but like most said, most are so invested in the org. they just swallowed it...and took the blame....most witnesses have a victim complex....beat me beat me but don't ignore me....that's one of their biggest fears is to be ignored...just look at the assemblies, and KH's folks talking about nothing to look popular....if you walk by and listen to some of their conversations....oh boy...I saw so and so in this street they send their love...I did x amount of hours...all air talk...sometimes I get corned but I know how to talk and keep it simple....I drop little gems...they kind of run from me....

I know an x elder that told me don't let them witnesses say the org, never mentioned 1975, he even pointed me to some issues that said it...he was an elder then and an insider so to speak so he knows....he said folks won't admit it because it makes them uncomfortable....this guy is not angry with the org. he just saw behind the curtain...we still talk...he says it's ok that I'm a witness because I get it....I see through it...and when the time comes and if it comes I will know if it's right to stay or bounce....

One day someone will have the nerve to ask the simple question Where did the friends hear the date 1975 from who or whom ? That's the meat and potato of the issue...the friends didn't pull out from no where...they say many ran with it...that may be true but who gave it to them to run with ? Many know the answer and it's ok to say hey they are lying and if you feel it's ok to stay then stay, but don't lie to yourself....admit they lied and keep it moving...

Tor

22

Are Witnesses TRULY Honest, Humble and Hungry? (The 3 H's)

by stuckinarut2 in

how many times did we hear the worn out expression "that anyone who accepts the "truth" needs to have the 3 h's".

yes, they must be "honest hearted.

hungry for truth, and humble enough to accept that they need to change".

tor1500

Hi,

Nope. They appear to be the 3 h's just to look pious...most of the friends have nice cars and homes and go on nice vacations, etc, yet they try to look holy by appearing to be the 3h's....so most claim to have some type of ailment of depression, funny depression and having a roof over your head and food in the frig....nice job....only in America do we name and treat human emotions...we must name and treat them....

But they don't remember the scripture where the couple sold their land for a certain amount and lied about what they sold it for...So blam, they died instantly..because it was their land/money to begin with and whatever they gave was their business so why lie and say you didn't get a certain amount...God don't get mad because you make a good living it's your attitude, do you help someone if they needed it and you have it?

I'm a JW, it's all about appearances....they are not who they say they are....most of them have personality flaws so that's why most stay in the org., because most folks wouldn't put up with the average arrogant witness....Again, I'm in the congregation and they are phonies.....they are mean spirited by nature and that's another reason why they are drawn together....if you are not they will try to make you like them....so that's why I stay down wind from them...they are toxic....

So, no they are not those 3 h's....it's all game....

Tor

43

The denial of 1975 when and how did they go about it.

by Crazyguy in

i was pretty young in 1975, all i remember was a few complaining at the hall after and those at the door that razed us over it.

does anyone remember how they went about denying it and when this started.

i do remember a scripture in psalms about people being mighty and living longer so this was used.

tor1500

Hi.

My question. Was 1975 a rumor or was it in black and white. Did they print literature that pointed to that date. Even if they never directly said it was the end, what was the point of mentioning that date at all. So in reality it does not matter if the flock took it too far. As the kids say. You (the org) started it.

No one will say to the org. but you guys put in writing to keep watch of 1975. Who told us. You.

The org. has admitted have Jw's given incorrect dates for the end? The answer is yes. Check out the January 2013 public edition. I printed a copy and keep it on hand.

Tor

70

What made you stay "in" even when you knew it wasn't the "truth"?

by mentalclarity in

so i've been thinking a lot about why i stayed a jw for so long even though i had always had doubts about the doctrines.

i was born into the religion, left and came back as an adult for another decade.

some of the things that come to mind (besides the threat of shunning-and this isn't to minimize that very real threat) was:.

tor1500

Hi.

Unfortunately, I knew it was not the absolute truth before I joined. I have been to many places of worship and the only thing different about each of them is their doctrine. The same messed up folks are everywhere. There will always be those who take up the seat next to them so they have to be ALWAYS asked to move their belongings. Always be elders and elder'ettes, Pharisees, gossips, flirts, horny folks, gays and closet gays, folks that like to mess with underage children. So to me it does not matter where you choose to worship. The same nuts everywhere. I think of places of worship as a rehab for the mean spirited.

I am still there. I like my congregation as nutty as they are. I see through their comments and know that is all they are. Good comments. Most witnesses want to be good but they are fighting something inside of them.

You see the Bible is like a mirror. It will make you face yourself. So that's why many witness's are always on the go and only have head knowledge of the Bible it's too painful for them to really read the Bible and change. So they hope to get bible studies to hide the fact that they won't and will not change. They are not ready to be accountable. That's why many are witness's because the society can be blamed for their behavior, not them. Many on x witness sites always blame the org for how they acted but deep inside we all know we are not supposed to shun folks.

Again I like the friends and the Bible helps me deal with my life and others. Not sure how much longer I'll be there.

I think many stay because of family and that's all they know. Some stay because of the belonging gene, a place where they fit they could care less about the doctrine. Some are afraid of stepping out and finding out that most people are cool. The org says watch out for worldly folks when really you have to be more careful of witness's. Jw's are on planet earth which is the world so they are worldly too.

I guess you can apply this same question to a person who stays in a not so healthy relationship. Who knows. Only the shadow do.

Tor

30

Why is the approval of family so important?

by jwfacts in

one of the reasons people remain pimo is fear of losing family.

those that are disfellowshipped and shunned regularly comment about how devastated that they have lost the approval of their parents.. when i respond to emails from people saying how difficult it is being estranged or looked down on by their parents, i would like to say that over time they will come to terms with it, except i not sure that people ever do.

i cannot shake that feeling either.

tor1500

Hi.

Great replies. I like the one where they say if your family members don't want to talk to you. It's their lost. If a mom or dad can shun their own children because they don't want to be witnesses or that they get df'd for just being human. You have to ask yourself do they really love them?

Just because you are a parent does not mean they are like Donna Reed or any of those tv moms and dads.

I do get it though. My husband is a middle child and still he craves attention, so I give to him.

Many lack self esteem and replaced it with crowd esteem. So some people crave approval 24/7. I have a friend and her mom did the best she could. It was a big family. But she could never do enough. FYI: there was a father but he was away a lot to make money to feed the family. Until this day my friend still seeks approval and her mother has since died. So sometimes she'll call me and say. "You'll be so proud of me....". I'm not her mom and I have made some not too wise choices so I'm not the one she should tell. But I realize it's really about not ever being able to please her mom. But in defense of her mom all the kids went to college. They are kind of messed up but in a large family that can happen.

We all want to have a sense of belonging. Some more than others. At the end of the day. We all want someplace to rest our hearts.

Tor