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So we can be certain it was a very stupid bluff.
Yes I agree however those that support him are in full belief that we have done wrong and that he will be vindicated. We all must keep speaking about it imo so those coming out will have the information to make an informed decision
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Is Karlo Novosel having a sale? Buy two extortion letters and the third one is free.
It still wouldn’t be worth it, he doesn’t return phone calls, emails or to letters.
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Kim Silvio that elephant video was the bomb!! Lloyd loves to virtue signal about the mote in everyone else's eyes, Yet he cannot pull out the beam in his own!!
Thank you, I have never made a video before and am quite limited with IT skills. I certainly will be spending time expanding my knowledge in this area as I found it quite interesting to make.
I also read the rest of your comments and very much appreciate your opinion.
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when there are too many town criers, no one knows who to listen to, and what's relevant, especially when irrelevant points are being brought up and treated like they're a big deal.
My simple response to that is "Listen to as many as you can and make up your own mind. We MUST start thinking for ourselves rather than having to decide who to listen to.
Edit to add that I get it that it's not Marks place, nor really anyone's place to say who's voice is relevant, and that it's up to those who are listening.
100% agree with you on this point. It's no ones place to say who's voice is relevant and who isn't. People MUST be allowed to make their own decision based on their own experiences and beliefs.
None of these parties are innocent.
That may well be the case indeed. For me it's a case of "what came first, the chicken or the egg?". Having recently been through the experience I have in speaking out against Lloyd my opinion of his work has changed - and I said at the beginning that it NEVER WOULD and that I would ALWAYS see the value in his work.
I most certainly still do, however I also see the damage that can be done to some vulnerable people as they are coming out of a high control cult and into a community where most people only hear one voice and one opinion, and then form opinions based on this one opinion. This seems to be the case, particularly in this situation, as we were (are) all trained to "listen to the MAN with the microphone", Elders, CO's, DO's etc.
The classic example of this was the misogamy clearly displayed when Mark issued his statement - immediately comparing my effort to his effort and marking me deficient and Mark's superior and feeling the right to shout it across the community. Is this normal behaviour? For me, I don't remember a politician issuing a statement, then another and then the community having a debate about why one's statement was better than the other.....Could be just me, however I find this quite interesting.
Some of the people attacking me called me some horrific names, called me a liar, and were very very (scarily) protective of Lloyd. To the point where I even think Lloyd would be scared of them. It concerns me, and I am by no means an expert, that people are staying in a "trauma state" if they only listen to one voice and adopt 100% of their opinions and beliefs and if that one voice is only talking about issues from the "trauma source". Lloyds videos certainly affirm the decision that each of us made to leave, but at what point do we leave the trauma behind and move forward. Is this constant "trauma source" creating blind followers such as the ones that I had contact with? Isn't that what we did as JW's? Does re-traumatizing ourselves just keep us angry and emotional?
I have been enjoying Cappytan's Exit video series for this very reason. Although I have had extensive therapy and am doing well, I still find it fascinating and I feel so much happiness listening to the healthy (yet difficult I'm sure) journey to freedom that people trek.
These are my view and I respect anyone that doesn't agree with me, I do encourage all of us to think about this. As INDIVIDUALS (first) and as a community (second) do we need to change our thinking?
I dont know him, and can only see the character he puts forward, which appears to be genuine and a seeker of truth and justice. I'll just have to take your word, and Kim and Mikeys word, for how you all veiw his character, under advisement, moving forward.
I understand your words are coming from a kind place and thank you. I can only encourage you to hear my experience, observe others, seek information from many places, be slow to put your hand in your pocket to anyone (or just don't, your not obligated) and then make your own decision. No one - including me - is 100% right ever or has the best ideas, or sees things in a balanced way all the time. We need to think and decide for ourselves based on what we believe as individuals.
in the grand scheme of things, and in my world, it's all pretty irrelevant. Just a time killer today. Time to go back to my real world. I hope you all get settled back into a place where you are happy and comfortable.
And good on you!! Getting out of the cult is the first step - staying in a cult like structure that has similar operating behaviours, procedures and policies may not be the best idea. We all need to get on with living the life we have, enjoying ourselves, supporting each other, sharing our experiences, giving others the tools and skills that we have that will assist them moving forward and check our ego's at the door.
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Perhaps having Tibor coming to this forum to preach the Gospel of Lloyd wasn't such a grand idea?
Perhaps Lloyd, as Tibor's employer, has asked him to review social media platforms and report back as he may not have that much work to do? I have no idea, just a suggestion. BTW, Hi Tibor, I know you are angry with me, however you have my contact details if you ever have questions or want to talk. xx
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Kim Silvio, thank you for clarifying.
Your welcome
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So he called you crazy and simple people who don't understand how congregations conduct business.
It’s comments like these from Mark that make me uncomfortable. Imagine if Mark didn’t have that large platform and was trying to get information out, the same information he distributes now, and a person with a bigger platform came out and rubbished his efforts?
Where would that leave us as a community? In business this type of behaviour is normal as it’s competition but is our community and activism work about competition? Don’t we need as many people out sharing information as possible?
Ok let’s all call Kim and mike crazy and “tin foil hat wearers”….. ok, now what? Go back and look at their videos. They have at least TRIED to get information out to the community as best they can on what’s happening and will correct anything they may say that isn’t correct.
Their continued efforts in spite of the years worth of I’ll treatment clearly demonstrates to me their love for the community and individuals leaving the cult.
Motivation and intentions matter to me, responsible use of influence matters to me. I don’t always agree with Kim and mike’s opinion however I respect the fact that they try.
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Kim, you mentioned in one of your first comments a distrust of Mark O'Donnell. This isn't the first time you've brought this up. Will you elaborate, please?
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KIM, can I ask you ,do you know what really happened in Texas.. He was very vague about it, do you have any details ? the only think he talk about was "pictures" on is phone is wife saw... Is one of them him singing the walk of life... Does anybody seen him singing that song in Houston?
I only know from Lloyd that "it didn't involve anyone from the ExJW community. I did see a little bit of talk of his involvement with an activist that was at the texas gig but that's only chatter, I don't know anything in certain terms.
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The answer to that is he is taking advantage of exited cult members who were already conditioned to give their money to a "higher cause".
He has the same moral scruples of someone dealing drugs outside a rehab facility.
My moral scruples are dropping by the minute.....I was trying to be fair in what I said about him.....but the more I hear the less I care....
