in natural calamities, everyone (despite one’s faith) is affected.
when one denies god’s existence, he experiences no punishment from him.
when one worships him, he receives no special favor from him.
venus,
What suits you may be something else which obviously you need to find out.
I agree, your position on God is a bit out of my reach for now. I will keep searching for something that addresses my current situation. Where I'l end up I'm not sure.
Thank you.
i was told this during my judicial committee (some five years ago) when i brought up concerns i had with the "truth.
" in addition one of the elders (who was an engineer) said once you've accepted a proof of pythagorus' theorem you don't later start doubting that theorem.
i thought that argument was a weak analogy then.
How do you prove its the truth in the first place lol, Hearsay? a feeling? They haven't done that even...hehe
sickening.....
in natural calamities, everyone (despite one’s faith) is affected.
when one denies god’s existence, he experiences no punishment from him.
when one worships him, he receives no special favor from him.
venus,
Thank you for explaining.
It feels like we are talking different languages at the moment. You looked to me like an informed, thoughtful and learned person (as I am sure you are), that's why posted questions in reply to your posts.
The problem is that I need explanations from step one at the moment, and you keep explaining from step two. The position from where you are explaining is one where you already believe there is a God. And you make sense of his actions and inaction in an imaginative way that brings relief and answers and for that I am thankful.
Problem is that I am stuck at step one at the moment: Asking why invoke God, why invoke a christian God(new testament quotes), why use the word God in the first place? Why invoke a God that does not want to be identified (you seem to have identified him though)?
When we use biblical references, how do we determine which are misinterpretations, and which are not? Surely there must be some foundation from where we can analyse these texts objectively. And it is this foundation I am interested in. Does it come from hearsay (religion,ancient texts and modern texts etc.), personal religious experience, divine communication etc?
Let me try and make it as clear as possible:
I need help getting to step 2 from step 1. (I was at 2, 3, 4 etc. for a long time. Being born into JW they made me believe there is no step 1)
I fear that you have been told there is a God. I think it would be more acceptable to me if you told me you had a spiritual experience, or God talked to you, because then I can wait and hope to have a similar experience.
How have you identified a God that is not involved in the actions/lives of men and does not want to be Identified? Are your abilities of discernment greater than his of concealment?
Thank you for taking time to reply, and be sure I am not trying to be negative or argumentative. And I hope I haven't caused offence. I am in a bad place at the moment, my joking on other threads is just a cover as I am deeply troubled/confused regarding God and religion at the moment.
i've been hearing this from what i'd call 'dyed in the wool' type jobos.. 'it's not the same as it was a few years ago.....'.
i believe from what comes back to me via my spies -.
the dyed in the woolers are referring to how the gb are now blatantly pontificating threateningly it seems, about wanting money even from children, all the time.
An elderly sister once asked/told me: "Do you know who uses the internet......pause.....satan da deval, that's who".
Now it seems to be the go-to place. Luckily that change results in JW's being more exposed to other information. I know they drilled jw.org into them but still one or two miss clicks and you could end up here!
i regular pioneered for 2 years and never have actually converted anyone through the door to door work, in fact, i only knew a few individuals that joined this way.
most were born-in or at least had some type of family influence.
i had several bible studies but they all got cold feet when things got serious and potential baptism was discussed.
I think a semi-trained monkey would have had more bible studies from door to door than I did, and looking back I am relieved I was that bad.
what are your biggest, funniest, scariest, etc.... wait wt says there are non hahahah.
2 Chronicles 19:7 "Now then let the fear of the LORD be upon you; be very careful what you do, for the LORD our God will have no part in unrighteousness or partiality or the taking of a bribe."
The LORD is not partial.
Deuteronomy 14:2 "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God, and the LORD has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
God's impartiality led to what could be described as genocide, which seems rather partial.
in natural calamities, everyone (despite one’s faith) is affected.
when one denies god’s existence, he experiences no punishment from him.
when one worships him, he receives no special favor from him.
Thanks venus,
Your reply is insightful and I do agree, and draw great value from it, but I struggle to see how this gives me a foundation for belief in the existence of God. Your reply can be true without God? That is what is tearing me apart at the moment! Leaving organized religion has left me empty in regards the existence of the almighty.
I know I may be asking you to prove the existence of God (that is what I feel I need at the moment) and that is unreasonable of me, but I'm starting to feel, and fear that the concept of God may be a man made "shoe box".
You use the word "God" with confidence (at this stage I envy that) but how did you receive it? Hearsay? Shoe box?
Apologies for drawing you into my struggle.
i had this point highlighted to me yesterday by a dyed-in-the-wool j.w.
who is beginning to see cracks in his beloved golden calf of warwick.
so encouraging to hear his disgruntlement with org-related topics.. “many in the christian congregation may not have expected their loved ones to die this side of armageddon.” (july 2017 study wt).
moreconfusedthanever,
I was controlled like that for a long time, and am still trying to shake it. Even now I'm not sure what to do, but looking at evidence the case for true religion is not good, and consequently the evidence for the existence of God is also not looking good. I spend my time looking for provable reasons to believe in God but they are nowhere to be found and mostly end up as being based on hearsay. Sadly.
Lets say there is a God (but he is not the christian God) and one day in judgement he asks: "Why did you believe in the christian god?"
Can I answer that its because the bible told me so? Or my pastor/priest told me so? People control us because we believe what we are told by people and their writings, not by God directly.
Apologies to OP, I think this may be going a bit off topic or hopefully its also applicable.
in natural calamities, everyone (despite one’s faith) is affected.
when one denies god’s existence, he experiences no punishment from him.
when one worships him, he receives no special favor from him.
"means all scriptures have misrepresented Him"
"When I tried to copy this aspect of Him I found how much heart-break I was spared of."
Lets say I take a similar position, then without scripture and hearsay, what would I base my position on God on?
Are there some representative scripture I can use?
Thank you for taking time to explain.
in natural calamities, everyone (despite one’s faith) is affected.
when one denies god’s existence, he experiences no punishment from him.
when one worships him, he receives no special favor from him.
Great summary Venus,
I'm trying to gauge your position from this and other posts. I find it intriguing that you end with two choices: Majesty or non-existence.
What is your pick of the two?
I am in a place where I am not sure God even exists anymore, so things like this trouble me somewhat. I have issue with atrocities in the old testament, and at the moment I even consider Gnostic/dualism explanations (demiurge) more acceptable than the standard views on this violence.
Or is it better to just let God go? Help....please....
