I just send my question to Bethel. Now we will see, what Jehovah is doing in this case.
Salomo
JoinedPosts by Salomo
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15
Why is he spiritual Israel not innumerable?
by Salomo inplease share this question.
why is he spiritual israel not innumerable?.
the literal seed of abraham was innumerable (heb 11:12; gen 22:17; 1ki 4:20).
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15
Why is he spiritual Israel not innumerable?
by Salomo inplease share this question.
why is he spiritual israel not innumerable?.
the literal seed of abraham was innumerable (heb 11:12; gen 22:17; 1ki 4:20).
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Salomo
The old covenant had firstborns and secondborns. Therefore, the new covenant has firstborns and secondborns too. And they have different functions in the kingdom of god. Because the gb did not realize it, the result is confusion. But if you understand this, the whole thing becomes clear.
After the first great crowd in heaven was praising god by itself, a second great crowd praises god on earth, by request (Rev 19:1-8, compare with Rev 5:13; 11:13; 7:10).
And if you compare Rev 7:13-17 with Rev 21:2-4 and Rev 22:14, you see the tent, the bride is coming down and is covering the great crowd or the great crowd can enter into the New Jerusalem, after it was coming down on Earth. This tent or the city of the 144,000 is the temple in which the great crowd is serving god (1Cor 3:16).
And with the question, why is the spiritual seed of Abraham not innumerable, I hope to change the view. But I need help. As more ask the question, as sooner things will change.
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15
Why is he spiritual Israel not innumerable?
by Salomo inplease share this question.
why is he spiritual israel not innumerable?.
the literal seed of abraham was innumerable (heb 11:12; gen 22:17; 1ki 4:20).
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Salomo
Oops, I forgot a "t" in the question
Why is the spiritual Israel not innumerable?
I hope this question will spread und will change things.
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15
Why is he spiritual Israel not innumerable?
by Salomo inplease share this question.
why is he spiritual israel not innumerable?.
the literal seed of abraham was innumerable (heb 11:12; gen 22:17; 1ki 4:20).
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Salomo
Please share this Question
Why is he spiritual Israel not innumerable?
The literal seed of Abraham was innumerable (Heb 11:12; Gen 22:17; 1Ki 4:20).
But according the current understanding of JW the spiritual seed of Abrahams is exactly counted and with a number of 144,000 much less than the literal old Israel (Rom 9:7; Gal 3:29). This would mean, the prophecy would be unfulfilled by the spiritual Israel. And the olive tree would have far less branches than before (Rom 11:17-19,25-26).
There is only one innumerable group, the great crowd of Revelation 7. Only with the great crowd the seed of Abraham would be innumerable.
There is some evidence for it:
*** w08 1/15 p. 25 par. 3 Counted Worthy to Be Guided to Fountains of Waters of Life ***
With that in mind, they have “washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” (Rev. 7:14, 17) They exercise faith in Jesus’ sacrifice, and thus in God’s eyes they have ‘white robes.’ They are declared righteous as friends of God, like Abraham.
They have a faith like Abraham, why are they not his spiritual children? (Rom 4:16-17; Gal 3:29)
*** w02 5/1 p. 30 Questions From Readers ***
It is reasonable to say that the great crowd worships Jehovah in one of the earthly courtyards of his great spiritual temple, specifically the one that corresponds with the outer courtyard of Solomon’s temple.
In this courtyard stood mainly Israelites and some circumcised proselytes, which were all in the old Mosaic covenant. Why the members of the great crowd as an antitype, are not spiritual Israelites in the new covenant?
*** w10 3/15 p. 25 par. 8 One Flock, One Shepherd ***
This relationship between the 144,000 and the rest of mankind was foreshadowed in the events of the annual Atonement Day. (Lev. 16:6-10) The high priest was required, first of all, to sacrifice a bull as a sin offering “in behalf of himself and his house.” Thus, Jesus’ sacrifice is applied first to his household of underpriests, those who will serve with him in heaven. Also on the ancient Atonement Day, two goats were provided for the sins of the other Israelites. In this setting, where the priestly tribe pictures the 144,000, the rest of Israel pictures all those with an earthly hope. This application shows that the term “the twelve tribes of Israel” at Matthew 19:28 refers, not to Jesus’ spirit-begotten underpriests, but to all others who put faith in Jesus’ sacrifice.
The great crowd belongs to those, which are foreshadowed by the 12 tribes at the Atonement Day. But why they are not spiritual Israelites?
The 144,000 are only firstfruits. Why, in contrary to the old covenant, should the new covenant only produce firstfruits and not the great rest of the people, which inherit the land? (Num 3:12-13; 18:20; De 10:9; Mat 25:34).
And why could someone not be in the new covenant, although he has washed his robe in the blood of this covenant? (Rev 7:14; Mat 26:28; Heb 9:11-14)
The earthly hope was not really revealed before the Revelation (1Cor 13:9-10). In the first Century 1Pe 2:9 was fully true for all, which were in the new covenant, because at this time, there was only the heavenly hope. But today we may have a different view of this matter. And Peter referring to the promise found at Ex 19:5-6. This promise may have a first fulfillment (w95 7/1 p. 16 par. 8). And then not all members of the new covenant have to be priests in heaven.