Posts by oldskool

24

The Watchtower's method to show that it was appointed in 1919 CE

by Doug Mason in

please note that when you tell me of the corrections i need to make that this is a simplfied, minimalist presentation dealing with the society's appointment in 1919.. it is available as a powerpoint show: http://www.jwstudies.com/appointed_in_1919.ppsx .

and as a pdf: http://www.jwstudies.com/appointed_in_1919.pdf.

doug.

oldskool

Jonadab class is an older JW reference, I use it to refer to the change around 1935 that discerned the difference between the other sheep i.e. great crowd/multitude and the anointed.

The olympic efforts of reasoning required to arrive at 1914 using the bible is strains credulity enough. The leap to 1919 is the icing on the cake in terms of how self serving these beliefs actually are.

To get back to Mr. Mason's original point, I would argue the precise method used by the Watchtower Society to show that it was appointed in 1919 CE looks something like this:

A great question just came to me. What is the last year according to current JW teaching that the WTS/anointed fulfilled bible prophecy? I'm sure it is whatever is in the Daniel or revelation book. My assumption is that once the Knorr through Franz era kicked in the organization stopped fulfilling direct passages of scripture. The mythology was "set" so to speak, with no need to update that part of the story. At this point their books assume the continuation of the current postwar geopolitical world order with no major shake ups, giving the necessity for predictive concepts beyond generalities inessential.

I'm speaking directly regarding the WTS fulfilling prophecy. Not government entities or other world events.

33

Field Service Privilege Can Be Taken Away Due to Hairstyle and Tight Pants???

by Wild_Thing in

jw
friends

millie2105 hours agohere is something i just found out this week.former belief - field service is a publishers inalienable right new belief - field service privilege can be taken away if person styles hair or wears clothing in a way that is deemed metrosexual.i was pretty much dumbfounded.. this was posted on another thread, so i decided to start a new topic about this.

i think this is amazing!

i wish this was in place when i was a kid.

oldskool

Maybe this is more like marking in that one regard (non judicial)

An ambiguous concept that nobody ever understood.

The letter reads like guidelines for private reproof. Nothing new.

33

Has anyone been outed by jw health care workers?

by purrpurr in

jw
friends

carrying on from audespare thread.

i was wondering how common it is for a sinner/apostate to be outed by a babbling jw care worker?

say you went to your dr because you were pregnant and unmarried or wanting counseling for having to live a double life as a pretend jw... and a jw secretary at the drs office saw this on your file and went tattling to the elders?.

oldskool

I would say they can certainly do it. However, it is a strong case for a lawsuit. Probably could get a descent settlement out of the healthcare provider that employed the snitch.

33

Field Service Privilege Can Be Taken Away Due to Hairstyle and Tight Pants???

by Wild_Thing in

jw
friends

millie2105 hours agohere is something i just found out this week.former belief - field service is a publishers inalienable right new belief - field service privilege can be taken away if person styles hair or wears clothing in a way that is deemed metrosexual.i was pretty much dumbfounded.. this was posted on another thread, so i decided to start a new topic about this.

i think this is amazing!

i wish this was in place when i was a kid.

oldskool

If the written directive expressly states that clothing styles worn in non-Witnessing activities can be the basis for refusing brothers and sisters in otherwise good standing from engaging in field service when they ARE dressed appropriately, then yes, this is new.

Rather than being new wouldn't this simply be defining what was already at the discretion of the local Elders already? Reproof is reproof, they always could do it for any trivial violation found inside WT literature. The mentioned letter may have some defined terms, but it could have been done in the past anyway, correct?

Clothing was always something to be regulated. A good deal of this was informal, members checking each other through gossip, which eventually could lead to reproof action.

33

Field Service Privilege Can Be Taken Away Due to Hairstyle and Tight Pants???

by Wild_Thing in

jw
friends

millie2105 hours agohere is something i just found out this week.former belief - field service is a publishers inalienable right new belief - field service privilege can be taken away if person styles hair or wears clothing in a way that is deemed metrosexual.i was pretty much dumbfounded.. this was posted on another thread, so i decided to start a new topic about this.

i think this is amazing!

i wish this was in place when i was a kid.

oldskool

They called the Service Desk and much to their surprise were told -
Leave. Her. Alone.

Not sure where this occurred, guessing US. My first thought is WTS protecting against a lawsuit for inhibiting freedom of speech. Not a high risk threat, but the WTS knows the legal territory well.

The US is a country where the right to obnoxiously protest funerals was upheld as constitutional. Those that get in the way loose money in court.

Again, I don't see anything unusual in this. I don't think the WTS and local Elders in particular have ever shown a great ability to handle the particulars of internal judicial affairs with much consistency. Outside of org HQ there has always been some real sloppy work going on by the r&f amateurs they put in charge.

25

"They trampled on my humility."

by Zoos in

it's rare that i bump into someone from the old hall.

but it happened yesterday with one of the nicest brothers i remember.. he came into my place of work not knowing i worked there.

my company is now on his delivery route.

oldskool

Have there been any special "initiative", i.e. letter to Elders, articles, training, ect., that instructs Elders to essentially "root out" those that faded?

38

Please sum up the last decade in JW history

by oldskool in

jw
friends

i used to be a member of this site, but jumped off a good number of years ago (08?).

i don't have access to my old email, so i'm using a new account.. anyway, i was baptized jw in late 90's.

da'd mid 2000s.. when i left there were three meets a week plus field service.

oldskool

Thanks for the comments Wait for It.

As I recall, the focus for decades was to make little adults out of the children. Dress them up, make them do field service. Make them act and talk like adults. Take them in the back room and shut them up. Make them read the same material adults do.

Marketers have known for years that if you give children a pleasant experience with a brand, they will carry that nostalgic bliss with them their entire life. Remember the playground at McDonalds restaurants in the 70s/80s/90s?

Not only are the JWs efforts here late to the game, I openly wonder how well the group can really produce material that has lasting impact. Are they hiring outside media consulting firms? Audience research driven strategy? Or is this the equivalent of somebody saying "get our best people on working up something for kids" and then something on the conveyor belt pops out the other side? With JWs it always seems to be the latter.

28

I'm getting disfellowshipped

by raven in

hi everyone, a bit of an update here on my continuing disaster of a situation.. (refer to my previous posts for the full story) my mom met with me yesterday for dinner, it was nice.. however, she brought up the fact that because i live with my boyfriend and how everything has gone down, i will be disfellowshipped.. i think the elders basically have enough proof of this.. due to the anonymous tipper (still have no clue who it was, i live in another town 100's of miles away from my old congregation territory), and my mom telling them.

i'm not sure when they will announce it, or if they will contact me prior.. at this point i feel so emotionally dead i don't care- on the other hand, i don't want to be disfellowshipped because i do not want to loose a relationship with my mom.

that is the whole reason i tried fading out.. .

oldskool

Choices have consequences. You are living with your boyfriend, something the group does not approve of. Living with a boyfriend violates JW norms, and will always jeopardize "fading". I would hope you accepted the potential consequences before you went down this path, but your writing suggests something different.

The best you can to is to accept you made the choice that was best for you, despite the consequences. Essentially, giving it up (mentally) before they take it away.

Are you sure your mother did not reveal your situation to the Elders?

38

Please sum up the last decade in JW history

by oldskool in

jw
friends

i used to be a member of this site, but jumped off a good number of years ago (08?).

i don't have access to my old email, so i'm using a new account.. anyway, i was baptized jw in late 90's.

da'd mid 2000s.. when i left there were three meets a week plus field service.

oldskool

Wait For It, is there a trend in using the word "worship" more? What is the structure of "family worship night"? Is it structured? From what I recall the common phrase was "family study", and it was up to the discretion of the family to make selections regarding materials used.

Also, have the JWs begun any sort of youth outreach with a focus on social activity?

24

The Watchtower's method to show that it was appointed in 1919 CE

by Doug Mason in

please note that when you tell me of the corrections i need to make that this is a simplfied, minimalist presentation dealing with the society's appointment in 1919.. it is available as a powerpoint show: http://www.jwstudies.com/appointed_in_1919.ppsx .

and as a pdf: http://www.jwstudies.com/appointed_in_1919.pdf.

doug.

oldskool

I'll be honest, I haven't been up on this topic in a while. What you laid out is a bit daunting and not easily readable.

Also, I see no reference to the Jonadabs. While I agree there is no direct connection to 1919 chronology, I feel it is a critical piece of the appointment puzzle that WTS writers/leaders heavily rely on. It is the emotional part of the story that believers can latch on to, and is critical to how their theology and worldview remains up to the current period.

I once discussed in depth the 1914/19 chronology and selection information with an Elder that attended ministerial training school and was taught under a governing body member. Faced with the documentation that the 1914/19 chronology was incoherent, he immediately transitioned the conversation to the Jonadab "miracle". This point was communicated heavily to him during his training, and I believe it remains in the background as the "backup" evidence to 1914/19 JW leaders rely on to define their divine appointment.

The reality is no Jonadab miracle occured. With Rutherford at the helm of the Bible Student movement, membership in the group began to shrink because of opposition to the direction he was leading the group. Rutherford responded to the self induced loss of membership by saying it was part of a divine plan. The group would continue to shrink until the end, he predicted.

However, the great depression occurred creating an opportunity for the groups message to find a wider audience. Faced with explaining the new contradiction that membership was no longer occuring, the creation of the Jonadab class fixed the issue.

Simply relying on Watchtower publications, especially post 70s, it is easy to see how the context to these events was lost in favor of reliving the "miracle" of a "great multitude" unexpectedly entering the faith. The mythic origins help soften the 1914/19 scenario, the birth of the Jonadabs, 144,000, two classes of christians, ect.

On the whole, I feel that the 1914/19 discussion is far less important that the mythologization of the Jonadab class and the Watchtowers history around this time.