Posts by oldskool

29

Help - I'm going to be conducting the watchtower study

by Saltheart Foamfollower in

it looks like i'm going to have to take the watchtower study for a while so i thought i'd seek help.. i wont be outing myself or stating anything too controversial, but so far i have come up with the following tactics : 1) ask questions which will get people thinking even if it is about something insignificant - developing a questioning mind is the key to discovering ttat as far as i am concerned.

2) highlight any extreme points so that some might realise they are extreme.

3) highlight any good points - helping others in need for example - just because it is the right thing to do.. if anyone has any general comments which could help, please post them here.

oldskool

I have little information regarding your motivations for remaining an Elder with these sorts of privileges. I would imagine there is some part of you that wants this task? I'll try and peek at your back story.

Personally, I say either do the job your asked to do don't do it at all.

In fact, I would argue that if you simply make the job your own and do better than the WTS want's it done, it would have more lasting impact with people. Ditch the probing questions and instead just try to be funny and likable. Use charisma. If you ever leave the group, they will remember you more fondly. Somebody who they looked forward to hearing talk.

Those meetings are less about the beliefs than you think. Just my 2 cents.

17

My 2016 RC Experience

by wannabefree in

i'm at the water park with my five year old in green bay.

she was so happy to be spared another boring day like she endured at thursday's propaganda feast with her mother.

after breakfast we drove by the convention site.

oldskool

Well, second question. What the hell is the difference?

27

Old Relative Not Happy About Push To Use Ipads Etc

by disillusioned 2 in

i was in a close relatives house yesterday and she was having angry and resentful at the push to use electronic devices at the meetings.

she was talking to another relative of mine who has just got an ipad to use.

this relative of mine is very elderly and obviously prefers to use her bible and other books.

oldskool

I've been gone from JWs a good while. Please clarify. Do you mean to say that the practice of brining a printed bible to a meeting, and following along by flipping to scripture is not being done? What are the mechanics of this? Is it really "frowned upon" to be using paper literature?

They want you to use a tablet, open up a magazine pdf or something, and the probably just "look up" scriptures by hitting a hyperlink or something?

They way you all describe it, I almost want to go to a meeting to see how it goes down.

A side thought. Honest to God, in this world of technological overflow, digital phones, people on the sidewalks heads down texting, unfocused conversations with people when face to face distracted by their phones, non stop selfies, an overflow of video content in every place you go, and other ubiquitous digital bs (just my opinion), the idea of the JWs still slugging away by actually READING as a group with real books, however goofy the books, at least felt like they where sticking to some sort slower paced distraction free value set. To hear they are just going along with the technological overflow has to be a nightmare for older ones.

38

Newspaper article on Conventions—why so glowing?

by Londo111 in

every year in dozens of cities where conventions are being held, newspapers typically write an article about the event.

there are exceptions, but usually it is like the articles above.

i would love to see more newspaper articles that did some actual objective reporting, rather than puff pieces.

oldskool

Local newspapers, hard on cash and low on resources, are not going to look at a rather boring and non controversial convention brining in tourism bucks as an avenue for investigative journalism.

JWs are a group the general public cares little about. Unless they take an active stance in support of Donald Trump, nobody's going to care about them this year.

17

My 2016 RC Experience

by wannabefree in

i'm at the water park with my five year old in green bay.

she was so happy to be spared another boring day like she endured at thursday's propaganda feast with her mother.

after breakfast we drove by the convention site.

oldskool

What is RC? Sorry, not up on new terms.

5

The world is about to come to its end and what does the Watchtower do?

by Crazyguy in

they buy a hotel!

yep in 1975 when the world was about to come to its end the borg buys the brooklyn hotel for 2 million dollars.

this information has come out now do to the fact they have put up this property for sale.

oldskool

From what I understand, the mindset within the organization has always been that WTS owned property would make it through Armageddon. A somewhat pointless belief, given that an omnipotent Jehovah could keep any structure he wanted to remain for his people.

Nevertheless, The feeling that what the JWs 'own' would make it through no doubt was always the internal fallback for why it was ok to keep purchasing and building. A move they greatly benefit them now, given how common it is for the worlds billionaires and millionaires to safeguard their money in an ever growing NYC real estate boom.

24

The Watchtower's method to show that it was appointed in 1919 CE

by Doug Mason in

please note that when you tell me of the corrections i need to make that this is a simplfied, minimalist presentation dealing with the society's appointment in 1919.. it is available as a powerpoint show: http://www.jwstudies.com/appointed_in_1919.ppsx .

and as a pdf: http://www.jwstudies.com/appointed_in_1919.pdf.

doug.

oldskool

Impressive book Doug, I will have to spend some time with it.

Personally, I have always felt the bigger story regarding the 1914/19 teachings, including the 1935 'miracle', was the rhetorical power behind the story.

Most JWs I knew understood very little about these teachings. While lots of attention is paid in writings about JWs regarding the specific workings of how the Watchtower arrives at a point, the basic concept of what is actually going on in the mind of somebody that hears the teachings doesn't get as much attention.

I think most JWs hear:

- Smart sounding bible stuff i don't have time to understand

- Must be right

- I'll figure that out later, boy the WTS is really smart!

The most 'learned" JWs I have known never really got beyond repeating this stuff verbatim, usually without much comprehension because how could there be any, its all nonsense.

Which leads me back to my other question, and maybe it's in your book. What is the last prophecy the WTS fulfills, according to current belief? I'm really curious to figure this one out.

48

JW Video Armageddon to occur before 2040

by Listener in

sorry i thought it was a new morning worship video but it is 6 months old and has already been discussed on here.. it is presented by gb helper k flodin and about this generation.

the delusion and hypocrisy runs deep.. he reminds the cult members not to speculate because they aren't supposed to know the day or the hour.

then he proceeds to speculate that armageddon will occur before 2040.. https://tv.jw.org/#en/video/vodprogramsevents/pub-jwbmw_201511_3_video.

oldskool

Fascinating video. To have been away from JW news for about a decade, and to step back into this week and see this video is stunning.

The entire JW faith, from all I have seen, tells me that the JW faith is more about continuously experiencing anticipation than any formal set of beliefs, practices, or traditions.

Most of the general dogmas are a means to an end, used to validate their superiority over other faiths. They really could be anything. If nobody celebrated birthdays they would have been making the case for 100 years that it is an essential christian practice.

The amazing thing is how blatant all of this talk about the future is really about the present. It's a formalized fantasy that distracts from ordinary life. It's all about the experience. That the future they dream about never actually comes to be is besides the point. We got through today by dreaming about tomorrow. Mission accomplished.

33

Field Service Privilege Can Be Taken Away Due to Hairstyle and Tight Pants???

by Wild_Thing in

jw
friends

millie2105 hours agohere is something i just found out this week.former belief - field service is a publishers inalienable right new belief - field service privilege can be taken away if person styles hair or wears clothing in a way that is deemed metrosexual.i was pretty much dumbfounded.. this was posted on another thread, so i decided to start a new topic about this.

i think this is amazing!

i wish this was in place when i was a kid.

oldskool

My take on the letter is that continued dabbling with "gender blurring" fashion trends can eventually result in a form of private reproof.

They are saying "if your appearance doesn't match what's between your legs we don't want you going door to door". Gender blurring, to use the letter's terminology, has emerged in fashion on and off for many years, but at least from my perspective it is bigger now than it ever has been. No big surprise it's being singled out. It's also a hot button political issue, they don't want representatives to appear to be on the "wrong" side of it.

I think what gets to me regarding fashion is how mixed the WTS is on fashion in general. You get the sense that they truly want conservative dress, but are hesitant to demand it, probably for fear their membership will appear like a regimented cult.

Another issue is that JW faith provides few avenues for personal expression, and too much push against personal fashion may actually constitute something the r&f won't tolerate, at least in western countries. So the Watchtower rides this middle ground, always strongly requesting conservative dress but not demanding it.

To put it another way, what is holding the WTS back from instituting a dress code? Why don't they just pull the trigger?

24

The Watchtower's method to show that it was appointed in 1919 CE

by Doug Mason in

please note that when you tell me of the corrections i need to make that this is a simplfied, minimalist presentation dealing with the society's appointment in 1919.. it is available as a powerpoint show: http://www.jwstudies.com/appointed_in_1919.ppsx .

and as a pdf: http://www.jwstudies.com/appointed_in_1919.pdf.

doug.

oldskool

Jonadab class is an older JW reference, I use it to refer to the change around 1935 that discerned the difference between the other sheep i.e. great crowd/multitude and the anointed.

The olympic efforts of reasoning required to arrive at 1914 using the bible is strains credulity enough. The leap to 1919 is the icing on the cake in terms of how self serving these beliefs actually are.

To get back to Mr. Mason's original point, I would argue the precise method used by the Watchtower Society to show that it was appointed in 1919 CE looks something like this:

A great question just came to me. What is the last year according to current JW teaching that the WTS/anointed fulfilled bible prophecy? I'm sure it is whatever is in the Daniel or revelation book. My assumption is that once the Knorr through Franz era kicked in the organization stopped fulfilling direct passages of scripture. The mythology was "set" so to speak, with no need to update that part of the story. At this point their books assume the continuation of the current postwar geopolitical world order with no major shake ups, giving the necessity for predictive concepts beyond generalities inessential.

I'm speaking directly regarding the WTS fulfilling prophecy. Not government entities or other world events.