oldskool

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Posts by oldskool

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  70

  Witness Carts - A Vehicle for Significant Decline

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was stalking to a jw today about her recent experience on the carts and with being a jw generally.

  until this conversation i considered the carts as just an ineffective preaching method and a harmless waste of time.

  but now i wonder if the effect of the carts might be to produce noticeable decline in jw numbers.

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  oldskool

  They may have underestimated how important traditional door to door ministry has been in structuring JW life, self-understanding and commitment. Over emphasis of cart witnessing threatens to undermine that.

  Any thoughts on how much people doing at either broken apart? Is cart now a larger portion of the work?

  Door to door is a more consistently active activity than sitting at a cart. You're typically on private property, and it is similar to territory sales. You have to be ready for anything. However, as history progressed (50s through 90s), the activity became more conventional. Probably directly correlated to born-in JWs learning it as a more cultural activity rather than converts doing it with apocalyptic passion.

  Again, the one street of territory + break + 3 calls was a routine I remember well. Nothing close to the "preach the word" urgency WTS made it seem like was going on.

  To get to the OP, I would say that cart witnesses has the potential to lower the bar even further. Just sitting at a cart in a boring location? I've done table events before in past jobs, including major event centers with lots of people. You have to be standing, you have to invite people in, you have to ask questions constantly. It's actually really hard to do well.

  But it's also really easy to do poorly. Sit behind a table and not say much, barely anybody will approach you. And that's in a busy location. So in this light, it may be an even bigger excuse to non activity in the ministry, which although it's never verbalized, appeared to be the primary goal for most of the JWs I personally knew.

  In private, I remember so many JWs saying they hated the ministry. If there was a way to cheat at it, they would. All of them dreaded to be in the car with one of those 70 year old old school Knorr Era witnesses that wanted to knock on 100 doors.
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  70

  Witness Carts - A Vehicle for Significant Decline

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was stalking to a jw today about her recent experience on the carts and with being a jw generally.

  until this conversation i considered the carts as just an ineffective preaching method and a harmless waste of time.

  but now i wonder if the effect of the carts might be to produce noticeable decline in jw numbers.

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  oldskool

  I'm really starting to think they choose low traffic times and places on purpose so they don't have to talk.

  Low traffic areas is the only places I've ever seen them.

  Again, JWs are now conditioned into having low activity/contact field service. Raising the bar isn't in the flocks agenda. This is probably to the chagrin to HQ but that's the defining culture, at least in the west.
  
  
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  23

  Reaction of the JW believers to the 2016 RC

  by EyesOpenHeartBroken in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there are threads on the content of the rc and reaction of awake jws here, but how are indoctrinated jws reacting to the convention.

  my family and i have not attended yet, but i am bracing myself for it.

  anybody talking in jw circles?

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  oldskool

  I'm sure it will go down as the greatest convention ever until next year.

  
  
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  70

  Witness Carts - A Vehicle for Significant Decline

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was stalking to a jw today about her recent experience on the carts and with being a jw generally.

  until this conversation i considered the carts as just an ineffective preaching method and a harmless waste of time.

  but now i wonder if the effect of the carts might be to produce noticeable decline in jw numbers.

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  oldskool

  f you can keep calm and and keep a sense of humour about it you can have some fun. I had a positive experience in Edinburgh a while ago I shared on another thread where I am sure I really made a JW guy think seriously about things. Even after he worked out I was DFd he shook hands and we left as friends. Those are the best ones.

  Yea, the neutral territory of public space means the pronouncement to "get off my property" or conversely "We'll be going now" do not apply. JWs literally have to run away and leave the cart, or sit there and take the abuse because they asked for it.
  
  
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  9

  What strange things are taught at MTS?

  by Londo111 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a few years before i woke up, a young man in my congregation went to ministerial training school.

  he began to speak about some of the things he had learned.

  one of the things mentioned was that of incubus or succubus, that is to say, sex demons.

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  oldskool

  The sex demon urban legend rings a bell.

  I know a few that attended probably circa 2002/03. They never spoke of much, two things I remember:

  • One specifically said the experience show him how much he truly loved the Governing Body, I believe one of them taught for a portion of it.
    
    
  • The "miracle" of 1935, i.e. the appearance of the Jonadab class also labeled the other sheep, great crowd and those with an earthly hope. Again the GB member present impressed on them how miraculous the beginnings of the WTS org were. Of course, there was no miracle and was instead was the outcome of Rutherford's failed predictions.

  Personally, the experience both had gave me strong pause in the JW org. I imagined both students would get some sort of interesting/exciting assignment at the front lines of JWdom. Instead both were assigned to the same congregation about an hour from their old one, with only slightly less or similar attendance numbers.

  The assignment didn't line up with the image that there was exciting work going on all throughout the org. A decade and a half later I know the one guy is still pioneering at that hall, part time job, ect. What for??????
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  70

  Witness Carts - A Vehicle for Significant Decline

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was stalking to a jw today about her recent experience on the carts and with being a jw generally.

  until this conversation i considered the carts as just an ineffective preaching method and a harmless waste of time.

  but now i wonder if the effect of the carts might be to produce noticeable decline in jw numbers.

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  oldskool

  Also star witnessing is genius. Thanks for that doc
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  70

  Witness Carts - A Vehicle for Significant Decline

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was stalking to a jw today about her recent experience on the carts and with being a jw generally.

  until this conversation i considered the carts as just an ineffective preaching method and a harmless waste of time.

  but now i wonder if the effect of the carts might be to produce noticeable decline in jw numbers.

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• 

  oldskool

  Even bigger point. With post 75 through the current era the "preaching work" (if you can call it work) has become more and more defined by a lack of contact with the public.

  Through early 00s lack of contact became the norm within the org. We're talking 3 decades of people that made it a comfortable, not too confrontational, weekly routine.

  Short of a major internal cultural shift, I see no avenue for the JWs to increase the quality of outreach they do.

  So again, i think its a response to their go nowhere state of affairs.
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  70

  Witness Carts - A Vehicle for Significant Decline

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was stalking to a jw today about her recent experience on the carts and with being a jw generally.

  until this conversation i considered the carts as just an ineffective preaching method and a harmless waste of time.

  but now i wonder if the effect of the carts might be to produce noticeable decline in jw numbers.

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  oldskool

  I would tend to believe the WTS thought cart witnesses would actually be effective, and that when it comes to their own bs they can be that naive.

  My experience in the US was similar to what most on this board say. That pre internet there was little contact with householders. The JWs response? Put carts in public places where there are people.

  Ok in cities possibly, lousy in suburbs and rural.

  JWs have conditioned the public to not want to talk to them. Easy to forget, but JWs have been around for the entire past century in the USA, much of it with door to door work. They defined the crazy person who wants to talk religion. Most avoid it, because they defined it well as something to be avoided.

  JWs will meet defeat wherever they go. The message is outdated and has no relevancy. I think the cart stuff is an inclination how little they actually understand people.
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  147

  Challenge to Creationists

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in response to the 37 threads in my evolution is a fact series - see bottom of op for links - perry posted a link to an article "44 reasons why evolution isn't true".. i offered him a challenge on the thread and by pm.

  predictably he is totally ignoring it, so i am offering the challenge to any evolution-denier who thinks they have evidence to support their position.. please present one specific piece of evidence for creationism.. my task will be to refute it with evidence within 24 hours.. then i will present one piece of evidence for evolution and your challenge will be the same.. all posts must be as succinct as reasonably possible.

  entirely in your own words, without copy-paste, videos or links.. please post your interest to take part and we will set it up before the first actual post in the exchange.

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  oldskool

  
  
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  42

  Feeling Sad After Uncovering TTATT

  by pale.emperor in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  my initial pangs of unease and doubt led me to research some things.

  well, a lot of things really.

  i've never felt comfortable using the bible to try to calculate dates (1914).

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  oldskool

  Make a list of things you've always wanted to do for yourself, and do them.

  What I wrote on this thread might be some help. I was in your exact same situation when I left.

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5125313847623680/keeping-your-sanity-while-stuck-active-jw
  

  Based on what you've written its seems clear you are in the early phases of understanding what happened to you. It takes a while to go through it all. If you haven't caught up on Steven Hassan's material, now might be the time to do so.

  Base your approach to your wife not around doctrine, but around empathy. It's easy to trigger JWs in to fear, and then they act more irrational than usual. Empathize with her, be a good husband. It will work out but take your time. You're not in a battle, your in a process. It's easy to get worked up about the moment. I had good success thinking beyond the day to day.