Posts by scholar

264

Furuli's New Books--Attempt to Refute COJonsson

by ros in

jw
friends

i just heard that the norwegian watchtower apologist, rolf furuli, who esteems himself a biblical scholar of semetic languages, has completed the first of two volumes he plans to publish on the societys chronology, assyrian, babylonian, egyptian and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible.. title of this first volume is: persian chronology and the length of the babylonian exile of the jews.. i hear that although carl olof jonsson is not mentioned by name, or reference made to his book "gentile times reconsidered," it is nevertheless apparent that these volumes are an attempt to refute jonssons excellent study which has exposed the watchtowers 1914 date as total folly.. .

the book can be ordered now from furulis new personal website:.

http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/.

scholar

Alleymom

If you know anything chronology you would appreciate its complexity as shown in the simple fact that there is very little in biblical chronology that is fully agreed upon by current scholarship. There are in fact very few dates that are established and accepted. A very good example is the interpretation of Daniel 1:1 you try that one as an exercise. The reason why I mentioned the Companion Bible and the Sequence book is simply to show that from a simple exegetical viewpoint that there is disagreement about the seventy years whether it supports one postion or another, in other words to put the matter bluntly; no one has a clue about the matter. Even the society's viewpoint is simply that, you have to make a choice as what youwill believe.

In the final analysis any system of biblical chronology must be built on faith and not the theories ogf higher and modern critics who must bend the rules to fit the facts such as the Thiele and Jonsson hypothesis. I for one believe that the genuine Christian must be loyal first and foremost to God's pprophetic word even though it clashes with current chronology.

scholar

BA MA Studies in Religion

264

Furuli's New Books--Attempt to Refute COJonsson

by ros in

jw
friends

i just heard that the norwegian watchtower apologist, rolf furuli, who esteems himself a biblical scholar of semetic languages, has completed the first of two volumes he plans to publish on the societys chronology, assyrian, babylonian, egyptian and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible.. title of this first volume is: persian chronology and the length of the babylonian exile of the jews.. i hear that although carl olof jonsson is not mentioned by name, or reference made to his book "gentile times reconsidered," it is nevertheless apparent that these volumes are an attempt to refute jonssons excellent study which has exposed the watchtowers 1914 date as total folly.. .

the book can be ordered now from furulis new personal website:.

http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/.

scholar

Alleymom

I have a personal copies of the Companion Bible and 'The Sequence Of Events In The Old Testament by Eliezer Shulman which was published in 1987 and in English. The ISBN is 965-05-0268-8 . The relevant information is found on page 143 and simply contains a chart illustrating the Jewish traditional understanding of the seventy years.based upon Jeremiah 25:11-12; 29:10; Daniel 9:1,2. The diagram speaks for itself and in my mind simply illustrates the complexity of the nature, duration and chronology of this critical period of Judean history. I do not support its findings because it is at variance with our understanding of this period. The Society's approach is nice and simple and even though it clashes with the problematics of secular chronology, it is sufficient for the genuine Christian to have faith in the fulfillment in the Lord's prophetic word.

Alan F as usual rants and raves in frustration and one suspects if he had a chance he would be a good book burner. He would destroy all books that clash with his pet theories. Do not give him the keys to the library.

scholar

BA MA Studies in Religion

147

586/587 the K.I.S.S. approach --- no VAT4956, Ptolemy, Josephus needed

by Alleymom in

nabonidus -- 17 years.

nebuchadnezzar -- 43 years.

nabonidus -- 17 years

scholar

Alleymom

You have two problems with your KISS chronology.

Firstly where does the 70 years configure in your data?

Secondly, what date marked the Fall of Ferusalem, 586 OR 587?

scholar

BA MA Studies in Religion

264

Furuli's New Books--Attempt to Refute COJonsson

by ros in

jw
friends

i just heard that the norwegian watchtower apologist, rolf furuli, who esteems himself a biblical scholar of semetic languages, has completed the first of two volumes he plans to publish on the societys chronology, assyrian, babylonian, egyptian and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible.. title of this first volume is: persian chronology and the length of the babylonian exile of the jews.. i hear that although carl olof jonsson is not mentioned by name, or reference made to his book "gentile times reconsidered," it is nevertheless apparent that these volumes are an attempt to refute jonssons excellent study which has exposed the watchtowers 1914 date as total folly.. .

the book can be ordered now from furulis new personal website:.

http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/.

scholar

Alan F

Both of us are entrenched in our opinions, views and interpretations respecting chronology so you do your business and I will do mine.

scholar

BA MA Studies in Religion

264

Furuli's New Books--Attempt to Refute COJonsson

by ros in

jw
friends

i just heard that the norwegian watchtower apologist, rolf furuli, who esteems himself a biblical scholar of semetic languages, has completed the first of two volumes he plans to publish on the societys chronology, assyrian, babylonian, egyptian and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible.. title of this first volume is: persian chronology and the length of the babylonian exile of the jews.. i hear that although carl olof jonsson is not mentioned by name, or reference made to his book "gentile times reconsidered," it is nevertheless apparent that these volumes are an attempt to refute jonssons excellent study which has exposed the watchtowers 1914 date as total folly.. .

the book can be ordered now from furulis new personal website:.

http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/.

scholar

jws

I am glad that I amuse you here the references for your consideration:

companion Bible, 1974 p.615

The Sequence of Events in the Old Testament, Eliezer Schulman, 1987,p.143

Gosh I just saw Alan F tear off to the library, he looks worried to me.

Enjo

scholar BA MA Studies in Religion

264

Furuli's New Books--Attempt to Refute COJonsson

by ros in

jw
friends

i just heard that the norwegian watchtower apologist, rolf furuli, who esteems himself a biblical scholar of semetic languages, has completed the first of two volumes he plans to publish on the societys chronology, assyrian, babylonian, egyptian and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible.. title of this first volume is: persian chronology and the length of the babylonian exile of the jews.. i hear that although carl olof jonsson is not mentioned by name, or reference made to his book "gentile times reconsidered," it is nevertheless apparent that these volumes are an attempt to refute jonssons excellent study which has exposed the watchtowers 1914 date as total folly.. .

the book can be ordered now from furulis new personal website:.

http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/.

scholar

Alan F

Whilst writing to the commentators I can give you some problems on the text at 2 Chronicles 35:20,21 so that your understanding can be adjusted, you do not have to share it me as I am an apologist for the Watchtower chronology. But if the said are competent then their comments will be published and will eventually come to my attention.

Concerning Jonsson's 49 years of desolation it is not a derived number but a deception similar to the unproven assertion that the royalty of Persia began to reign in 539. You show me one scholar or commentator who supports this interpretation. This verse does not a chronological datum as does the context which refers to the first year or regnal year of Cyrus which is 538/7BCE.

In short we have the following mess: Jonsson -49 years of desolation; Josephus -70 years in two or 5 times of deolation and 50 years in one case; Watchtower= 70 years of desolation; community of scholars- either a symbolic number or undetermined.

By the way, where Jeremiah is referred twice in the above texts, What specific texts in Jeremiah is the Chronicler alluding to and what proof do you have? That is a big problem for you.

scholar BA MA Studies in Religion

264

Furuli's New Books--Attempt to Refute COJonsson

by ros in

jw
friends

i just heard that the norwegian watchtower apologist, rolf furuli, who esteems himself a biblical scholar of semetic languages, has completed the first of two volumes he plans to publish on the societys chronology, assyrian, babylonian, egyptian and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible.. title of this first volume is: persian chronology and the length of the babylonian exile of the jews.. i hear that although carl olof jonsson is not mentioned by name, or reference made to his book "gentile times reconsidered," it is nevertheless apparent that these volumes are an attempt to refute jonssons excellent study which has exposed the watchtowers 1914 date as total folly.. .

the book can be ordered now from furulis new personal website:.

http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/.

scholar

jws

I read your post with amusement. The subject of the seventy is far more complex than you know, if you think I am implying two seventy year periods then you are mistaken. And for your interest I have not lost the argument at all. There are two independent chronologies that I have to hand that refer to three seventy periods each having a different begiining and end and there at least four different interpretations aside form the Society's chronology that relate to the seventy years.

The Jonsson hypothesis of seventy years is about servitude or captivity at the expense of the specific and direct reading of texts in Daniel and Chronicles that the land lay desolate for seventy years. No amount of clumsy and speculative exgesis can prove the Society wrong. Their current and traditional understanding of the seventy years is brilliant and can only be teastament to divine revelation. The date of 607 and the Gentile Times ariising thus from is a powerful stimulant to the preaching of the gospel. If you want to believe in a complex, inventive and decptive chronology then that is your choice. I prefer to believe in a chronology that is faithful to scripture and has a simple and direct methodolgy.

scholar BA MA Studies in Religion

264

Furuli's New Books--Attempt to Refute COJonsson

by ros in

jw
friends

i just heard that the norwegian watchtower apologist, rolf furuli, who esteems himself a biblical scholar of semetic languages, has completed the first of two volumes he plans to publish on the societys chronology, assyrian, babylonian, egyptian and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible.. title of this first volume is: persian chronology and the length of the babylonian exile of the jews.. i hear that although carl olof jonsson is not mentioned by name, or reference made to his book "gentile times reconsidered," it is nevertheless apparent that these volumes are an attempt to refute jonssons excellent study which has exposed the watchtowers 1914 date as total folly.. .

the book can be ordered now from furulis new personal website:.

http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/.

scholar

Alan F

A direct reading of the text at 2 Chronicles 36:20-21 does not support your interpretation nor that expressed in GTR, 3rd edn., pp. 220-24 because the Chronicler does not specify the date when the 'royalty of Persia began to reign'. It is an interpretation which I reject because the context indicates 'the first year of Cyrus' in 538-537 BCE as most commentators agree. The text does not link the seventy years with the servitude but with the desolation of the land as clearly stated. Jonsson makes numerous assertions in these pages but does not prove his case at all. The land had to enjoy its sabbath years of rest which amounts to 70 years and not 49 years as he alleges.

WHERE IN EARTH DOES JONSSON GET 49 YEARS FROM? NOWHERE IS THIS FOUND IN THE OT. Josephus confirms that the land lay desolate for seventy years unti Cyrus which was not 539.

In short, this text shows that 539 is impossible and that the land was the subject of the seventy years and that the Jews were simply captive under rulership at Babylon until Cyrus' decree.

scholar BA MA Studies in Religion

264

Furuli's New Books--Attempt to Refute COJonsson

by ros in

jw
friends

i just heard that the norwegian watchtower apologist, rolf furuli, who esteems himself a biblical scholar of semetic languages, has completed the first of two volumes he plans to publish on the societys chronology, assyrian, babylonian, egyptian and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible.. title of this first volume is: persian chronology and the length of the babylonian exile of the jews.. i hear that although carl olof jonsson is not mentioned by name, or reference made to his book "gentile times reconsidered," it is nevertheless apparent that these volumes are an attempt to refute jonssons excellent study which has exposed the watchtowers 1914 date as total folly.. .

the book can be ordered now from furulis new personal website:.

http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/.

scholar

Alan F

Your understanding of the text at 2 Chronicles 36:20 is simply ridiculous. It simply states that the Jews were captive in Babylon until a new regime of Persia began to rule about 538BC under the title of King of Babylon, in Cyrus first year the decree releasing the captives followed by their release in 537 which ended the seventy years. Jonsson's interpretation is strained and is not supported by any commentaries that I am aware of. In fact the International Critical Commentary on pages 524-525 for the expression:'Until the reign of the kingdom of Persia- until the conquest of Babylonia by Cyrus in 538'. So careful commentary analysis links the end of the seventy years with cyrus' first year.

scholar BA MA Studies in Religion

264

Furuli's New Books--Attempt to Refute COJonsson

by ros in

jw
friends

i just heard that the norwegian watchtower apologist, rolf furuli, who esteems himself a biblical scholar of semetic languages, has completed the first of two volumes he plans to publish on the societys chronology, assyrian, babylonian, egyptian and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible.. title of this first volume is: persian chronology and the length of the babylonian exile of the jews.. i hear that although carl olof jonsson is not mentioned by name, or reference made to his book "gentile times reconsidered," it is nevertheless apparent that these volumes are an attempt to refute jonssons excellent study which has exposed the watchtowers 1914 date as total folly.. .

the book can be ordered now from furulis new personal website:.

http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/.

scholar

Alan F

Please read the introduction in Jews and the Judeans and note the commen on page ix: The debate generally starts out from the position that the murder and mayhem of the Babylonian conquest, and the deporstations that followed, left the land virtually depopulated. This view is inscribed in the idea , expressed in the book of Chronicles and Leviticus , that after the fall of Jerusalem the land observed its sabbaths for seventy years. (2 Chron 36:20-21; LEV.26:34-35). On page xi it shows that the participants at that conference had much further work to do in this period so although there are at best current views expressed concerning the history of Judah this book based on the conference indicates further research is needed. Your opinion of the text is simply your interpretation, others would read it differently as shown in many commentaries.

Stafford's research highlights the problematic interpretation of all of those relevant texts and yet you expect others to follow your dogmatic reading particularly Chronicles. The context indicates Cyrus' first year after the land was desolated for the seventyyears.

scholar BA MA Studies in Religion