Leolaia
Right, so Lipsius' illustration agrees with example of the Michelangelo sculpture for both depict a stake with the former believed to be that of a figure of Christ.
scholar JW
scholar
JoinedPosts by scholar
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48
Changes to the Kingdom Interlinear
by PanzerZauberei inin the 1969 kit the society used a book by bible scholar justus lipsius as source material for their upright stake "stauros" doctrine of the death of christ.
they used an image of a man hung on an upright stake with no crossbeam attached to it.
then they placed a caption under it saying that the illustration came from lipsius.
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48
Changes to the Kingdom Interlinear
by PanzerZauberei inin the 1969 kit the society used a book by bible scholar justus lipsius as source material for their upright stake "stauros" doctrine of the death of christ.
they used an image of a man hung on an upright stake with no crossbeam attached to it.
then they placed a caption under it saying that the illustration came from lipsius.
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scholar
villabolo
I care naught what Randy Watters says and photocopying Lipsius ' work is a waste of time because all that the Society states is that his book contains a picture of a stake with no other implication for the content of the book discusses the cross in history and the evidence clearly proves that Jesus died on a stake and not a cross so we can be eternally grateful to the celebrated WT scholars for this piece of brilliant scholarship.
scholar JW
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48
Changes to the Kingdom Interlinear
by PanzerZauberei inin the 1969 kit the society used a book by bible scholar justus lipsius as source material for their upright stake "stauros" doctrine of the death of christ.
they used an image of a man hung on an upright stake with no crossbeam attached to it.
then they placed a caption under it saying that the illustration came from lipsius.
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scholar
Leolaia
The answer to your question is rather simple for if you had read the first paragraph of the article you would have seen that it was responding to an alleged sculpture by Michelangelo of a figure of Christ with his hands stretched above him rather than to the side. This observation of a perhaps 16th century Michelangelo nicely parallels the research by Lipsius of the same period his foremost book on the Cross which contains illustrations of a crux simplex as an instrument of execution. The sculpture of Christ alone shows that even at that time there was some uncertainty about the instrument of Christ's death and it nicely coincides with the Catholic piriest Lipsisus observation on matters.
scholar JW
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48
Changes to the Kingdom Interlinear
by PanzerZauberei inin the 1969 kit the society used a book by bible scholar justus lipsius as source material for their upright stake "stauros" doctrine of the death of christ.
they used an image of a man hung on an upright stake with no crossbeam attached to it.
then they placed a caption under it saying that the illustration came from lipsius.
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scholar
PanzerZauberi
Your claim that the WTS with its NWT and KIT has been misleading with the use of the illustration of the stake by Justus Lipsius is false and misleading. If you had taken the trouble to read the context of all of the presentations in the above you would simply find that this illustration was simply used to show an example of being hung on a stake which of course as the evidence shows was the instrument used for the execution of our Lord.
scholar JW
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41
New QFR on May 1 WT reaffirms 1914 and talks about Satan's ouster from Heaven
by stillajwexelder inno matter how stupid, they can not drop 1914 - far too embarassing.
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scholar
cawshun
That is not the point. The fact of 1914 is part of biblical eschatology terminating the biblical 'Gentile Times and grounded in the facts of modern history. Apostates simply ridicule eschatology just as the Apostle Peter foretold and what is worse they have no eschatology of their making. It is far wiser to first have an eschatology at hand before criticizing another's point of view.
scholar JW
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41
New QFR on May 1 WT reaffirms 1914 and talks about Satan's ouster from Heaven
by stillajwexelder inno matter how stupid, they can not drop 1914 - far too embarassing.
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scholar
Leolaia
Apostates may riducule 1914 but just as the little boy has a vivid imagination he also is known for jealousy in that he envies the other boy that has a better toy or thing. He conspires to get that thing and cries like a baby when such attainment is impossible. Apostaes are just like that other boy. They are jealous of the FDS and its teachings, the understanding and interest in prophecy, their evangelization, their faith and relationship with God.
Such enemies and critics have no eschatology, no concept that any prophecy in the Bible have a fulfillment in modern times for all that they have is history, dead history which can only be awakened by prophecy or the prophetic word.
scholar JW
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16
Scholar = Neil Mc Fadzen on Facebook
by neverendingjourney ina guy named neil mc fadzen from australia who identifies himself as "scholar jw" is posting on this facebook 607 bce thread:.
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=51298429787&topic=8065.
if only there was a way to find out whether neil has all the qualifications "scholar" claims to have.. .
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scholar
Leolaia
I am no scholar emeritus but you compliment me by asserting as such and I thank you. I have no publications under my name but only the simple fact that my BA was attained at Deakin University majoring in Religion Studies and Philosophy. I graduated at the prestigious University of Sydney with a Masters Degree in Studies in Religion but I hope to undertake a Doctorate or a M Phil. in Religious Studies when I retire from work as I have already a thesis topic underway. I hope this helps.
scholar JW
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343
Defence of watchtower society Links
by reniaa ini thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.
i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.
those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.
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scholar
Mary
Post 10136
The notion that Jerusalem fell in 586 BCE is nonsense because other scholars prefer 587 BCE so with this controversy you cannot say that either of these two candidates is proven. The date 607 BCE is proven because this date alone harmonizes the Bible's testikmony of a seventy years period and the available secular evidence. Apostates are the only ones who beat the matter up because of their vile hatred of God's people an dcannot stand the fact that there does exist a True Religion.
Rolf Furuli does not promote any date except his own chronology which he has termed 'Oslo chronology' and has carried out his own research which proves that current secular chronology is falsifable.
The WTS certainly represents the True Religion as evidenced by its Unity, Universal Brotherhood and the blessings of God and His Son. If this organization is not the True Religion then pray tell where is it today? Apostates never offer any alternative but simply stay at home, read the Bible and do nothing but whine, whinge and complain.
Scholars with a full brain can easily discern that the 'seven times' of Daniel has a major fulfillment beyond Neb as is clearly shown by the context of Daniel 4 with its prominent theme of God's Kingdom. Those with less than half a brain discern nothing.
scholar JW
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42
any problems with this 607 response from Elder PO
by besty inback in may 2007 i got this response from my brother who later acted as chief witness for the prosecution at our kangaroo court.
in fact he travelled 1000 miles round trip to do so.
he was motivated :-).
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scholar
besty
Post 953
Your brother's response concerning the validity of 607 BCE is entirely correct for it is validated by the Bible and secular evidence. The other candidates such as 587 and 586 BCE are problematic because these dates cannot be harmonized with the 'biblical' seventy years. Also, 607 BCE works because it is integral to the interpretaion and fulfillment of prophecy in relation to the Gentile Times, the Parousia of our Lord and God's Kingdom.
scholar JW
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343
Defence of watchtower society Links
by reniaa ini thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.
i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.
those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.
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scholar
Mary
Post 10132
Wordly scholars do not promote any date at all because chronology as a subject does not receive the attention it justly deserves. When a date is necessary then such scholars simply refer to whatever date currently is popular and this varies largely between 586 or 587 BCE. These are the 'popular' dates within current scholarship but are innacurate as shown by the meticulous research by the 'celebrated' WT scholars who have proven the validity and integrity of 607 BCE.
Alan F has a compulsive habit of replying not only in supersonic haste but in great depth to 'scholar's ' posts in which scholar skilfully keeps in junping through the hoops. The biggest laugh in on those who are sucked in by the likes of Alan F because he professes to be an agnostic/atheist.
Of course you do not like Rolf Furuli because as a professional scholar skilled in the original languages has the temerity to challenge the amateurish research of Carl Jonsson. Furuli unlike so many others is not fooled by Carl Jonsson who has simply recycled critiques of WT chronology from other sources such as the Adventists.
Rolf Furuli's published research has nothing to do with refuting Carl Jonsson's nonsense, Furuli explains his purpose and the necessity of a new Oslo chronology and a fresh look at the methodology of chronology. Jonsson nowhere gets any mention in the two volumes, not in the radar so to speak.
You seem to a bit of a drama queen for asserting that WT doctine has harmed families, this is just satanic or demonic propaganda. The True Religion including its doctrines which are all Bible based bind families together in love-hope-faith.
The claim that the 'seven times' in Daniel are simply applied to Nebuchadnezzer without a major or prophetic fulfillment is simply your interpretation and completely false because the context of the chapter revolves the God's Kingdom which was then at that time a present reality and a future reality with the expiration of the Gentile Times.
All other Christian faiths do not believe in the Kingdom because they would preach it but they do not as you well know. They simply mouth it as a word, concept or phrase not understanding its reality and significance. Only the Witnesses understand it, preach it and represent it.
In conclusion, the fact that an individual like Alan F is an unbeliever gives him no credibility on any comment related to the Bible because all that he can sayis from the position of a sceptic who has no love of God or His Word. If you cannot see that then there is little hope for you at present.
scholar JW