Posts by scholar

421

70 years = 607?

by allelsefails in

70 years of captivity?.

i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

There is sufficient exegetical points that link the Gentile Times of Luke 21:24 with Daniel 4. Firstly, there is the vocabulary with the use of kairos Gk with iddanim Aram. Secondly, there is the tense of the verb estai patoumene which literally means ' will be being trampled' which demotes a progressive past action into the future. Thirdly, the use of Jerusalem which has always had a theological significance amd in the particular relates to God's Kingdom which again is thematic of Daniel 4 and the entire book. Fourthly, the Olivet Discourse of Luke 21 deals with events gthat involve the destruction of wordly nations and worldly rulers which again is thematic of Daniel 4 and the book of Daniel. Fifth, Jesus quoted often from Daniel as seen in the Olivet Discourse of Mark 13, Luke 21 and Matt. 24-25.

I could go on further but five reasons will do for the moment.

Daniel 4 is not just about Neb and his spanking but there were other parties involved such as God Himself, the future Heir of the Kingdom, the Watchers and Daniel himself so the story is bigger than Neb for it is like that big cosmic tree. Further you have that overriding theme of the Kingdom which is what Neb was forced to recognize.

For a person who is a stupid as you claim scholar certainly has you in his grips and commands your instant attention. If scholar is such a fool as you claim then just ignore him and he will go away but you can't because scholar is a potent danger to apostates and their deceitful lying propaganda.

scholar JW

421

70 years = 607?

by allelsefails in

70 years of captivity?.

i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

scholar

Hobo Ken

Post 174

You state that certain dates such as 1918 and 1935 are without scriptural validity in a manner of speaking but what you fail to realize that such dates are part of various prophecies that describe the True Church living in the Last Days. The Church would be refined and experience the intervention of the Head of the Church during this momentous period.and such interventiion is part and parcel of NT Theology.

It is incorrect to say that 1914 is not part of Bible Doctrine for indeed is part of Eschatology and its calculation is firmly based on Scripture with its chronology, prohecy and history so the Bible contains all of the necessary data for its determination. It is only correct to say that the 1914 as a number is not found in the Bible.

We have nothing to be embarrassed about and the Lord looks after His people and Organization and we have nothing to fear from the future but What about you?

scholar JW

421

70 years = 607?

by allelsefails in

70 years of captivity?.

i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

scholar

Mary

Post 10678

Yes there is because the One who would be given that Kingdom was the future Messiah, Jesus Christ as prophesied in Daniel 4:17 which the latter part reads:"and that to the one whom he wants to, he gives it and he sets up over it even the lowliest one of mankind". This prophecy in the context of Neb's dream is further proof amongst many others that prove the antypical fulfillment of Neb's experience. Enjoy!

scholar JW

421

70 years = 607?

by allelsefails in

70 years of captivity?.

i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

scholar

isaac austin

Post 1487

You need to brush up on your comprehension skills for past and present experience has demonstrated to schola rthat apostates have poor comprehension skills. Firstly, the account in Ezra 3:8 nowhere indicates in what year of Cyrus the temple foundation was laid for the text only states that" And in the second year of their coming to the house of the true God at Jerusalem, in the second month... Secondly, just because Josephus states that the temple foundation was laid in the "second year of Cyrus" does not necessarily equate for the purpose of chronology for Josephus does not mention in what month this occurred.

Celebrated WT scholars in dealing with the chronology of this period have determined from the Bible record that the Temple foundation was laid in the second month in the year after the Jews returned which would be 536 BCE. The attempted synchronization of Ezra 3:8 with Josephus remains a dilemna for scholars and scholar himself has an interest in this matter. Interestingly, a chart entitled Chronology -Ezra-Nehemiah on page 667, in The NIV STUDY BIBLE, 1995, Zondervan agrees with us that the Jews built the altar in the 7th month 537 BCE and began work on the Temple in the 2nd month 536 BCE.

Alan F long ago tried to synchronize Ezra 3:8 with Josephus but scholar trounced him on it so at face value there may be some merit in the argument but the detail puts the argument aside for further research by competent scholars and scholar himself no doubt will sove the problem. One cannot base an argument on assumption as Alan F tried to do and so are you, an argument such as this must be based on what the text actually states and not the reading into the text something of an apostate agenda.

scholar JW

421

70 years = 607?

by allelsefails in

70 years of captivity?.

i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

scholar

Mary

Post 10677

Trawling through previous Watchtower publications in order to deconstruct our position or in order to prove an apostate agenda is futile and foolishness.The overriding fact is that there are far greater imperatives for Christians and the Church and these are to Preach the Gospel and to Keep on the Watch. These two things Witnesses from early times of the last century and more have clearly done. The forementioned quotes that you have nicley reproduced show that sincerity alone has little merit but must reside in truth which cedrtainly characterizes the mission and ministry of Jehovah's Winesses both past and present.

scholar JW

421

70 years = 607?

by allelsefails in

70 years of captivity?.

i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

scholar

Ann O Maly

Post 944

But those predicted events did come about with the outbreak of World War 1 and the ending of the Gentile Times as corroborated by the media of the day and several clergyman some years later. Thus, those Bible Students were forever vindicated for their integrity.

scholar JW

421

70 years = 607?

by allelsefails in

70 years of captivity?.

i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

scholar

Mary

Post 10673

Thank you for reproducing the footnote but as usual you lack comprehension because you failed to understand what is stated for it clearly staes that the meaning is for the Aramaic word which is what Daniel used is 'appointed times' or time periods. later translations such as in Greek give 'years' but the Septuagint renders it as kairoi which means 'appointed times'. Later, the Latin also translates the Aramaic word as tempora which means 'yeara' or again as 'times'. Further, in proof of the fact that iddanim means 'times' is supported by the footnote in the Hermeneia commentary on Daniel by John Collins which I have referred to in a previous posting on this subject.

Your argument that the tree dream is nothing more than a chastisement of a king overlooks the blatant fact that the entire chapter is about the Kingdom of God and Sovereignty which Nebuchadnezzer confessed as to its reality so it is not surprising when you obscure this fact then you see nothing more than a simple story.

You also choose to ignore the lingusitic connection between iddanim and kairoi as demonstrated in the NWT footnote which clearly proves that those 'seven times' were not literal years but a period of years. In fact, Jesus as recorded at Luke 21;24 used kairos and not chronos as you falsely allege and by the use of this word and the context of Jerusalem which typified the Kinngdom of God- the theme of Daniel 4 certainly connects well exegetically with the seven 'times' of Daniel 4.

scholar JW

421

70 years = 607?

by allelsefails in

70 years of captivity?.

i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

scholar

Mad Dawg

Post 183

You should consult Insight On The Scriptures, 1988, Vol.1.pp.568-569 under the heading 'Cyrus' Decree for the Return of the Exiles under the article entitled CYRUS for a more detailed discussion on this matter. Enjoy!

scholar JW

421

70 years = 607?

by allelsefails in

70 years of captivity?.

i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

scholar

Barefoot Servant

Post 72

All chronology has by its very nature 'wiggle room' because our knowledge of the past is imperfect or incomplete and there is nothing here to apologize for. But one thing for certain our chronology has no 'big wiggles' or'gaps' as the chronology accepted by apostates has. So when you have plugged the 'gaps' then you can live with the 'wiggle' as scholar in his wisdom does. He is happy with the 'wiggle' or the 'woggle'.

Your gap or gaps is proved by the missing 'twenty years' during the reign of Nebuchadnezzer for starters and that is just the beginning because of the failure to recognize the seventy years of servitude-exile-desolation of the Jews during the period of Babylonian domination.

You have presented nothing to prove your assertion that 538 BCE is the date for the Return. This year does not accommodate the historical reality from the time of Cyrus' Decree until the seventh month in the year of the Return. Neither does it account for the reign of Darius whereupon in Daniel 9:1, Daniel refers to a 'first year of Darius'. So, 538 BCE must be exempted because it lacks historical substance whereas 537 BCE accommodates all of the data.

Daniel 4 is about God's Kingdom and right to rule over mankind which means sovereignty and Nebuchadnezzer confessed to this simple fact after the end of seven years of abasement. The dream has several features that prove that it has a far greater significance becaus ethat kingdom was yet to be a reality in men's affairs awaiting the arrival of Jesus Christ to be installed by God as Ruler of that Kingdom for this is proved by the prophecy in Daniel 4:17.,

Your argument about God always ruling simply negates or buries the reality of a coming Kingdom that was prophesied to occur and really is utter nonsense. Too silly for words. You should study the subject of the kingdom more closely. If your argument is so then what is the Gospel which means good news of a furture or coming kingdom at some point in time.

The tree dream in Daniel 4 requires and demands interpretaion for that is the reason why Nebuchadnezzer sought out Daniel to do just that interpret and as God and so it is today that this dream demands an interpretation during the 'time of the end'- Daniel 12:4.

Yes we are entitled to our interpretation and so are you so perhaps we must agree to disagree.

scholar JW

421

70 years = 607?

by allelsefails in

70 years of captivity?.

i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

scholar

Mr Majestic

Post 852

Don't you trouble yourself about scholar.

scholar JW