scholar

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Posts by scholar

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  224

  Another problem for JW apologists

  by Jeffro in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the 2013 edition of the new world translation renders 2 kings 17:1 as:.

  in the 12th year of king ahaz of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king over israel in samaria; he ruled for nine years.. this is in fact a better rendering than the previous nwt, which stated:.

  in the twelfth year of ahaz the king of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king in samaria over israel for nine years.. despite their improved rendering, the watch tower society still claims that hoshea's reign 'really' began in 758 bce, but that it was 'established' in the 12th year of ahaz.

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  scholar

  AnnOMaly

  Post 3790

  scholar is not very bright. I have joined the dots but have come up blank.

  scholar JW
• 
  224

  Another problem for JW apologists

  by Jeffro in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the 2013 edition of the new world translation renders 2 kings 17:1 as:.

  in the 12th year of king ahaz of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king over israel in samaria; he ruled for nine years.. this is in fact a better rendering than the previous nwt, which stated:.

  in the twelfth year of ahaz the king of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king in samaria over israel for nine years.. despite their improved rendering, the watch tower society still claims that hoshea's reign 'really' began in 758 bce, but that it was 'established' in the 12th year of ahaz.

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  scholar

  AnnOMaly

  Post 3789

  Technically speaking the original deportees had a longer exile than the next deportation but Jehovah had decreed that the Exile would be only seventy years not eighty because the exile was commensurate with servitude to Babylon and desolation of the land so could only commence with the Fall in 607 BCE. In fact we do not know how long that group lived in Babylon for nor do we have the demography of both groups in Babylon. Ezra of course does provide some demographics for the Returnees just prior to the Return in 537BCE. I hope this helps as you seem to be stuck on the figure '80'.

  scholar JW
• 
  224

  Another problem for JW apologists

  by Jeffro in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the 2013 edition of the new world translation renders 2 kings 17:1 as:.

  in the 12th year of king ahaz of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king over israel in samaria; he ruled for nine years.. this is in fact a better rendering than the previous nwt, which stated:.

  in the twelfth year of ahaz the king of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king in samaria over israel for nine years.. despite their improved rendering, the watch tower society still claims that hoshea's reign 'really' began in 758 bce, but that it was 'established' in the 12th year of ahaz.

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  scholar

  AnnOMaly

  Post 3788

  In the overall scheme of things I must answer Yes! Jeremiah simply stated the fact of the matter for off to Exile they went. Naughty people.

  Glad to see that you have a copy of the original. Is it postmarked? And are you reading it correctly? You have nicely reproduced here but really What is your point?

  scholar JW
• 
  224

  Another problem for JW apologists

  by Jeffro in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the 2013 edition of the new world translation renders 2 kings 17:1 as:.

  in the 12th year of king ahaz of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king over israel in samaria; he ruled for nine years.. this is in fact a better rendering than the previous nwt, which stated:.

  in the twelfth year of ahaz the king of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king in samaria over israel for nine years.. despite their improved rendering, the watch tower society still claims that hoshea's reign 'really' began in 758 bce, but that it was 'established' in the 12th year of ahaz.

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  scholar

  AnnOMaly

  Post 3786

  The letter of Jeremiah 29 was addressed to the group of previous exiles in Babylon as shown in the first three verses of that chapter. Yes the group referred to in verse 10 is also those of the first deportation. Ann you are so brilliant in noting this fact!!!!

  However, the 'sting in the tail' is how the audience changes from verse 16 whereupon Jeremiah now turns his attention to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and gives similar warnings with consequences then in verse 20 it appears that he now addresses the entire nation as Exiles which of course would include both groups. Whatever the case it can be plainly argued that the fulfillment of the seventy years was applicable to the entire nation exiled in Babylon or elsewhere on the basis of all of the seventy year corpus.

  Nowhere in Scripture is the Exile described as having a length of 80 years for this is simply a product of your imagination. LOL

  scholar JW
• 
  224

  Another problem for JW apologists

  by Jeffro in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the 2013 edition of the new world translation renders 2 kings 17:1 as:.

  in the 12th year of king ahaz of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king over israel in samaria; he ruled for nine years.. this is in fact a better rendering than the previous nwt, which stated:.

  in the twelfth year of ahaz the king of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king in samaria over israel for nine years.. despite their improved rendering, the watch tower society still claims that hoshea's reign 'really' began in 758 bce, but that it was 'established' in the 12th year of ahaz.

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  scholar

  Jeffro

  Post 4222

  Not at all for nothing of consequence happened in 602 BCE. The simpler fact of the matter is that the Exile could only begin when certain key events happened and so itwas that the seventy years began with the Fall -destruction of the Temple, the city ,deportation to Babylon, evacuation to Eqypt etc. In short, all of the things that would constitute an Exile occcurred or were set in motion with what occurred at the Fall in 607 BCE.

  Your argument for the beginning and ending of the seventy years was and is always 'fuzzy' as I have repeatedly told you in the past.

  Have you got a copy of that letter and is it postmarked with the exact day month and year?

  scholar JW
• 
  224

  Another problem for JW apologists

  by Jeffro in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the 2013 edition of the new world translation renders 2 kings 17:1 as:.

  in the 12th year of king ahaz of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king over israel in samaria; he ruled for nine years.. this is in fact a better rendering than the previous nwt, which stated:.

  in the twelfth year of ahaz the king of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king in samaria over israel for nine years.. despite their improved rendering, the watch tower society still claims that hoshea's reign 'really' began in 758 bce, but that it was 'established' in the 12th year of ahaz.

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  scholar

  Jeffro

  Post 4219

  the simple fact of the matter is that the concept of Exile is problematic for your hypothesis on this key portion of biblical history. Jeremiah 27 and 29 both were directly addressed to the exiled people of the first deportation and as subsequent events as described by Jeremiah later included a much larger group of detainees or exiles who were all part of the EXILE. There was then a composite group residing in Babylon from shortly after the Fall of Jerusalem in 607 BCE right through until the Return to Judah in 537 BCE. Therefore this proves that the seventy years was indeed a period of Exile.

  Insults do not trouble me at all but merely reflect your character and desperation in trying to enforce your interpretations onto gullible minds. LOL

  The very fact of Judah' serving' nebuchadnezzer is the very proof that in accord with both Jeremiah ch 27 and ch 29 of the Exile in Babylon for both go' hand to hand' together.

  All scholars have acertain bias and I did not say that Albertz or the Society of Biblical Literature supports WT chronology but what Albertz has written for he is a specialist on the subject of the Exile, bases his discussion on the Exile proper from the Fall not from the first golah.

  I leave it others to imagine about my motives, methodology or quality of argument for I simply care nought but what I do know that I keep you on your toes.

  Also I checked Martin Anstey's Romance of Bible Chronology and his outline of Hoshea's reign and the Interregnum agres with that of WT scholars.

  scholar JW
• 
  224

  Another problem for JW apologists

  by Jeffro in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the 2013 edition of the new world translation renders 2 kings 17:1 as:.

  in the 12th year of king ahaz of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king over israel in samaria; he ruled for nine years.. this is in fact a better rendering than the previous nwt, which stated:.

  in the twelfth year of ahaz the king of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king in samaria over israel for nine years.. despite their improved rendering, the watch tower society still claims that hoshea's reign 'really' began in 758 bce, but that it was 'established' in the 12th year of ahaz.

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  scholar

  AnnOMaly

  Post 3783

  The audience that received the word of Jehovah as recorded in Jeremiah 29 were in fact those exiles of the first deportation as I have already stated and they were now in exile in Babylon or other places such as Ezekiel. This prophecy also states that the time would come for their release from Exile and that Exile ended with the Return of the whole population in 537 BCE the Fall of Babylon in 539 BCE. The simple fact of the matter is that there was a body of exiled people in Babylon as a result of Nebuchadmezzer's incursions into Jerusalem and all of these had to await the fulfillment of the seventy years otherwise you have several Exiles which of course becomes ridiculous.

  scholar JW
• 
  224

  Another problem for JW apologists

  by Jeffro in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the 2013 edition of the new world translation renders 2 kings 17:1 as:.

  in the 12th year of king ahaz of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king over israel in samaria; he ruled for nine years.. this is in fact a better rendering than the previous nwt, which stated:.

  in the twelfth year of ahaz the king of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king in samaria over israel for nine years.. despite their improved rendering, the watch tower society still claims that hoshea's reign 'really' began in 758 bce, but that it was 'established' in the 12th year of ahaz.

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  scholar

  Jeffro

  Post 4218

  Jeremiah 27 has absolutely nothing to with your hypothesis, it explicitly states that the nations and Judah would be brought into servitude to Nebuchadnezzer concluding the chapter with restoration, an end to their exile in Babylon whereupon the utensils and the people would be brought back home. No one is denying that the surrounding nations were made to serve Babylon but the seventy years alone proved to be aperiod of servitude-exile and deolation of Judah.

  Albertz does not waffle, he does not need to waffle in his 460 page analysis of the this most crucial period of Jewish history- The Exile. His book is published by the prestigious Society of Biblical Literature. Jeffro is infuriated and frustrated when scholar educates him into various areas of scholarship that he chooses to ignore when ranting and raving about the wondrous WT Bible Chronology.

  scholar JW
• 
  224

  Another problem for JW apologists

  by Jeffro in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the 2013 edition of the new world translation renders 2 kings 17:1 as:.

  in the 12th year of king ahaz of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king over israel in samaria; he ruled for nine years.. this is in fact a better rendering than the previous nwt, which stated:.

  in the twelfth year of ahaz the king of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king in samaria over israel for nine years.. despite their improved rendering, the watch tower society still claims that hoshea's reign 'really' began in 758 bce, but that it was 'established' in the 12th year of ahaz.

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  2. 
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• 

  scholar

  Jeffro

  Post 4217

  Jeremiah 25:11 is quite self explanatory for it simply describes 'servitude to Babylon' for seventy years not Babylon's domination. Servitude is a core element of the seventy year period which comprises Servitude-Exile-Desolation of Judah. No matter how you spin it it does not work for you.'Serving' can and in the case of this historical narrative it was in fact an Exile for it is described by the eyewitness to the events by the prophet Jeremiah who writes it all up in Jeremiah, Lamentations and of course Daniel and Ezekile both make reference to that catastrophe as an 'Exile'.

  The punishment of Judah by Nebuchadnezzer was servitude and exile in Babylon as the history proves.

  scholar JW
• 
  224

  Another problem for JW apologists

  by Jeffro in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the 2013 edition of the new world translation renders 2 kings 17:1 as:.

  in the 12th year of king ahaz of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king over israel in samaria; he ruled for nine years.. this is in fact a better rendering than the previous nwt, which stated:.

  in the twelfth year of ahaz the king of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king in samaria over israel for nine years.. despite their improved rendering, the watch tower society still claims that hoshea's reign 'really' began in 758 bce, but that it was 'established' in the 12th year of ahaz.

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  scholar

  Ann O Maly

  Post 3779

  No, the Jewish Exile proper was not at the first deportation of the 'selected ones' of Judah in 617 BCE but the second deportation with the Fall of Jerusalem in 607 BCE. I refer you to Rainer Albertz' Israel In Exile, 2003, on p.2:"Thus it is usual to have the exilic period begin with the destruction of Jerusalem and the final elimination of Judah as a state in 587/586 BCE, even though there was already a golah (group of exiles) in Babylonia in 598/597 BCE, and Gedaliah's attempted reform and a further deportation in 582 still lay in the future.(Jer.52:30) END OF STORY !!!!!!

  scholar JW