Wonderment
Well said. Interestingly, Ken Mc Kay in his A New Syntax of the Verb in New Testament Greek,p.94 superbly translates John 8:58 "I have been in existence since before Abraham was born".
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Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE?
by Doug Mason ini came across this article written in 2004 by an evangelical.. “when did jerusalem fall?”, rodger young, journal of the evangelical society [jets], 47/1 (march 2004), 21-38.. http://www.rcyoung.org/articles/jerusalem.pdf .
these are the conclusions of the 18-page analysis.
(1) jerusalem fell in the fourth month (tammuz) of 587 bc.
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Sanchy
You have not just separated the Kingdom of God from the humiliation of Neb but you have extinguished it!!! The tree represented both Neb's world rulership and the universal sovereignty of Jehovah God as expressed by the Kingdom of God as recognized by Bible commentators, expositors and the celebrated WT scholars.
The connection between the seventy years and the seven times is inherent in Dan. 4 as shown by the reference to it in the OG translation of that chapter and is explicit in the fact that both events began at the same time in 607 BCE.
The point of the dream was to show Neb that he was subjected to a far greater rulership of the Heavens, God's Kingdom or sovereignty.
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277
Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE?
by Doug Mason ini came across this article written in 2004 by an evangelical.. “when did jerusalem fall?”, rodger young, journal of the evangelical society [jets], 47/1 (march 2004), 21-38.. http://www.rcyoung.org/articles/jerusalem.pdf .
these are the conclusions of the 18-page analysis.
(1) jerusalem fell in the fourth month (tammuz) of 587 bc.
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Sanchy
You cannot separate the kingdom of God in Dan 4 from Neb's humiliation for that was then the point of the dream for to do so shows that you lack exegetical skills.
There is such an explicit connection, just do the exegesis of Dan.4.
Hermeneia commentary on Daniel is not to be overlooked so get cracking and study it.
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fulltime student
Yes I am acquainted with Chris Forbes, Edwin Judge and Stuart Pickering, John Lee and Greg Horsley and others all have or had an association with Macquarrie University which as an institution is at the forefront in NT Greek scholarship.
I understand that Forbes is an Anglican
He responded that too often in NT translation, the original text can have more than one meaning, a problem that makes translation difficult. (a problem, I think that makes YHWH look a bit of a numbskull).
True alternative renderings can be problematic but the insertion of the Tetragram into the NT is an example of the NWT being forward-thinking, advancing scholarship, proof of its brilliance.
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Diogeneisister
Not at all. I reject the other criticism of the NWT not on the basis of my degrees which do not include that of Koine greek but on the basis of my expertise of Koine Greek acquired by my doing a undergraduate course in NT Greek, knowledge of the subject and experience in using the NWT over many decades in company with the scholarly literature in relation to the subject.
This scholar is obviously very much ill-informed on issues tangential to the NWT such as the use of the Jehovah in the NT, Verbal Aspect and translation exegetical issues.
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277
Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE?
by Doug Mason ini came across this article written in 2004 by an evangelical.. “when did jerusalem fall?”, rodger young, journal of the evangelical society [jets], 47/1 (march 2004), 21-38.. http://www.rcyoung.org/articles/jerusalem.pdf .
these are the conclusions of the 18-page analysis.
(1) jerusalem fell in the fourth month (tammuz) of 587 bc.
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bennyk
The matter of the 'fifty years' in Josephus may simply be one of the following:
scribal error
Quoting Berossus in error
Dating an event regarding circumstances in the Land whilst desolated marking 50 years within the overall time period of 70 years. You can pick any one of these scenarios.
The prophecies of Jeremiah most certainly refer to a 70 years period of desolation a 70 year period of Exile and a 70 year period of Babylonian domination/servitude all three events to run concurrently.
The beginning of the 70 years from 609 BCE as you claim is impossible historically and makes no sense because nothing of any relevance happened in that year.
Josephus states that the Temple lay in a state of obscurity for fifty years not desolation for he earlier said that the city was desolate during the interval of seventy years.
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277
Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE?
by Doug Mason ini came across this article written in 2004 by an evangelical.. “when did jerusalem fall?”, rodger young, journal of the evangelical society [jets], 47/1 (march 2004), 21-38.. http://www.rcyoung.org/articles/jerusalem.pdf .
these are the conclusions of the 18-page analysis.
(1) jerusalem fell in the fourth month (tammuz) of 587 bc.
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MrMeanMustard
In connection with the translation of Jer.25:11 you should consult the major technical commentaries on Jeremiah and read what Rolf Furuli has written on the grammar of this text.
Yes one must read the context of this chapter and you will notice that in vs.1 and vs.9 which shows that the target is Judah and not Babylon.
The historical accounts in the Bible concerning Judah provide data that allows one to construct a clear chronology for Judah but such is not the case for the other nations.
Jer. 25:11 simply states that Judah along with the other nations would serve Babylon for a period of 70 years and scholar has always said that the 70 years was a period of desolation of Judah, an Exile of the Jews to Babylon and a period of servitude to Babylon beginning with the Fall in 607 BCE until the Return in 537 BCE.
But that is what Jeremiah explicitly states that it was only after the 70 years had been fulfilled or ended that a Judgement against Babylon would come into effect.
I have it exactly what Jeremiah states in vs.12/
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shepherdless
In addition to the above,I notice that the scholar who presented that video ridiculing the NWT mentioned about Aspect of Verbs with reference to John 8:58. Whilst living in Sydney and attending the many symposiums and conference on Ancient History and NT Greek at Macquarrie University at Ryde, Ken Mc Kay had published his research in 1994 along with other work on this subject by Fanning and Stanley Porter who have also published on this subject. Thus the serious reader should check what these three scholars say on John 8:58
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Finkelstein
I thank you for your nice words.
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shepherdless
My areas of interest at both universities has been in Religious Studies and Philosophy but in the earlier years I studied Koine Greek under John Lee at the University of Sydney for the sole purpose of understanding the correct translation of John 1:1. John Lee had written a letter concerning this subject which he gave to the entire class which in no way contradicted the NWT' rendering of this text. I am not Greek scholar but I also have had a long association with the Ancient History Documentary Research Centre at Macquarie University in Sydney and this Centre is producing a series of volumes titled 'New Documents Illustrating Early Christianity' which eventually will replace Moulton and Milligan's 'Vocabulary of the New Testament'.
My studies of NT Greek over many decades has proved to me that the NWT is a brilliant piece of scholarship and is the most accurate translation of the Bible ever made.
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