Posts by scholar

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

Jeffro

Nope. Wrong again. Not only are you obviously wrong about the duration of the exile (as distinct from Babylon's 70 years of power from 609 to 539), but parts of Judea remained populated through the exilic period (Ephraim Stern).

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Nope! Wrong again: The 70 years of the Exile is identical with the 70 years of Babylonish Servitude along with 70 years of Desolation.

Did the Israelites remain captive in Babylon for 70 years as the Bible foretold? Note the comments of a leading Israeli archaeologist, Ephraim Stern. “From 604 B.C.E. to 538 B.C.E.—there is a complete gap in evidence suggesting occupation. In all that time, not a single town destroyed by the Babylonians was resettled.” The so-called gap in which there was no occupation or resettling of conquered territory corresponds closely to Israel’s exile in Babylon from 607 to 537 B.C.E.—2 Chronicles 36:20, 21.

So you should pay attention to Stern and while we are at it you should also read Avraham Faust!!-----Additionally, though Josephus erroneously gives 70 years in one location, he correctly gives 50 in others, but also indicates a 182.5 year period that is not compatible with Watch Tower Society chronology.----Josephus identifies the 70 years four times in agreement with WT interpretation and Chronology and on the 5th occasion he refers to a period of 50 years from an event within the 70 year period.
scholar JW

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

Jeffro

ou doggedly agree with a bunch of old men in New York. I have already provided a timeline of the period based only on the Bible, which just happens to agree with the best scholars on the matter.

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Your timeline is faulty as its interpretation of the 70 years is misp[laced and further WT scholars have already produced a more accurate timeline. Scholars have different timelines for the Divided Monarchy and there is no consensus for this period of history within current scholarship so your comment that your timeline is in agreement with the best scholars is simply bunkum.

scholar JW

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

Rocketman123

Through historical evidence the land of Judea including Jerusalem lay desolate for only approximately 50 years, the accession over the land didn't start until the year Nebuchadnezzar took to throne after his father in 605 BCE.

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The historical evidence is that Judah remained desolate for exactly 70 years and began with the Fall with Nerbuchadnezzer ending with the Return under Cyrus nicely confirmed by the historian Josephus in several places.The 70 years of Babylonian servitude could not have begun at the beginning of Neb's reign because Judah was under the domination of Egypt for a time.

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Nebuchadnezzar's final invasion of Jerusalem including destroying the temple and taking most of the important inhabitants to Babylon was in his 19th year of rein

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This deportation marked the beginning of the servitude of Jews to Babylon in 617 BCE with the Kings of Judah became vassals to neb but the 70 years did not begin at that time because the land had not become desolate with the beginning of the Exile.

scholar JW

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

MeanMrMustard

No, the 70 years ends, then Babylon is called to account. This is the order objectively, clearly stated at Jer 25:12. And that fits with 2 Chronicles. The Bible need not contradict

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True the Bible does not contradict so one's interpretation must be in harmony with not just the context, the Bible book itself and the whole Bible. The 70 years ends with the 'calling to account of Babylon' which according to Jer. 21:12 what is clearly stated in that verse was only after the 70 years was fulfilled and not before that time. When were the 70 years fulfilled? This could only be at the Return of the Jews in 537 BCE and not at the Fall of Babylon in 539 BCE.

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The servitude was many nations to Babylon (v 10,11), and was already ongoing at the time of Jer 25 - see v18 "as they are today".

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The servitude to Babylon of a specific period of 70 years applied to Judah which also included other nations as stated in Jer. 25:11

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ou don't even need to get into contemporary sources. A grammatical reading of the text rules out WT chronology.

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Are you an expert in Hebrew and Bible translation?

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You concede WT chronology is incorrect. If "Babylon was already brought to account with the release of the Exiles" in 539, and Jer 25:12 states the seventy years end before the calling to account, then the 70 years ended 539 or before. But definitely not 537.

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I concede no such thing. Babylon's calling to account or judgement was not immediate but a process in time as verse 12 clearly explains culminating with its desolation of the land which did not happen in 539 BCE. A careful and not sloppy reading of that verse proves that the judgement against Babylon could only have begun after the Return of the Jews in 537 BCE.

scholar JW emeritus

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

notsurewheretogo

And still gets it wrong and shows Cognitive Dissonance.

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Unlike you, I am in control of my cognitive dissonance.

scholar JW

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

Rocketman123

This is a typical way JWs get around the 70 years of desolation, they interpret words selectively to suit themselves.

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Chronology is about Methodology and Interpretation. We have the right to interpret the Bible and you have that same right to do so so stop whining and being a 'girlie man'.

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So SA what year did Nebuchadnezzar finally invaded Jerusalem and destroy the Temple there ?

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607 BCE

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What year did Nebuchadnezzar firstly overthrow Jerusalem and take controlling power over the city and its inhabitants ?

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617 BCE

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No lies but simple facts or our wondrous Bible Chronology!!!

scholar JW

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

Jefro

You really have mastered the art of being completely and utterly wrong to the point of embarrassment. Predictably, you will try echoing the same thing, but I’m in complete agreement with the scholars you claim to respect

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I would rather base my Chronology on the Bible rather than theories and opinions of men. The Apostle Paul stated 'let God be True'- Romans 3:3,4.

scholar JW

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

Jeffro

Good to see correct use of punctuation this time to indicate that what follows is gibberish. Doesn't change the fact that Jeremiah 29:10-14 makes your conclusion impossible, since attention is given to their return only after 70 have ended, at which time you insist that they were already there. But you will continue to simply ignore that plain fact.

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Jer 29:10-14 is quite clear that the exiles in Babylon would return ending the 70 years. This section is a prophecy, not history. Their return would fulfil the 70 years. Plain and simple!!!

scholar JW

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

Jeffro

No, doofus. Historians date the initial exile to early 597 BCE and the destruction of Jerusalem to 587 BCE (with some Christian sources preferring 586). None of the passages mentions 70 years of exile

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Incorrect: Historians differ as to how these events are to be interpreted for some would begin the Exile with the Fall and others date the Exile 10 years earlier. What seems to be the case that historians agree that there was only one Exile proper commencing with the Fall. The word 'exile' is not mentioned in the 70 texts but the meaning or stat is well described in all of those texts

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.Jer. 25:11-12 refers to nations serving Babylon, not exile (and Jeremiah 27:8-11 specifies that serving Babylon is the way to avoid exile).

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Incorrect: Jer. 25:11 Describes a desolated land consistent with being conquered or vanquished by an invader with the deportations of its citizenry. Thus, the description is consistent with and Exile.

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er. 29:10-14 specifies that returning to Jerusalem necessarily follows the end of the 70 years

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Correct and this is what happened to the Jews exiled in Babylon who returned to their homeland in 537 BCE ending the exile as mentioned in vs.14

---2 Chron 36:20-23 stipulates that nations served Babylon until the kingdom of Persia began, not until Jews returned from exile, with the return following the end of serving Babylon (and also noting that the interpolation from Leviticus 26:34-35 is not 'the word of Jeremiah')

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The Chronicler is quite specific that the end of the 70 years and the Exile was connected to the 1st Year of Cyrus which also fulfilled the prophecy about the land having to pay off its sabbaths as foretold in Leviticus 26.

-----Dan 9:1-19 (written in the 2nd century BCE) reflects recognition of the order events of Jeremiah 29:10-14, being that 70 years would end and then attention would be given to the Jews' return

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Incorrect: Daniel was written in the 6th century and not the 2nd century as you allege. The ninth chapter consists of prayer by Daniel lamenting their exiled state and the exiles would shortly be released to return to their homeland.

scholar JW

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

Jeffro

Okay, let's see what Rainer Albertz has to say... Israel in Exile by Rainer Albertz, page 81:

Finally, an appeal to scholarship only after the said scholar gives you a source so why sit down and read the entire his 461 pages. LOL!! Please look at the title of the book, Rainer does not refer to Exiles- plural but Exile- singular so one Exile which he describes as a 'catastrophe'. Further, he refers to deportations but only ONE major Exile which harmonizes with the biblical texts of the 70 years and other books of the OT including Lamentations.

scholar JW