Posts by scholar

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

Jeffro

Why are we talking about COJ all of a sudden? Watch Tower's timeline for the period is very very wrong as can be seen here (PDF).

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For the reason that you have been influenced by COJ and your timeline does not accord with WT chronology.

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Nope. I've done decision table analysis on various aspects through the Divided Monarchy, independent of Young's research. Claiming it is not a valid method or that it something unique to Young just further demonstrates that you are inept at applying or understanding logic.

-- The logic is that you accessed Decision tables because I informed you about the matter on this forum of Young's research and it was and still is unique to Young.

scholar JW

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

Jeffro

This is seriously the level of delusion and dishonesty we're dealing with...

Thinks it is a contradiction that Stern says the towns that were destroyed were not resettled but that some other towns weren't destroyed and remained populated

Claims that 'Babylon will be called to account after 70 years' (Jeremiah 25:12) and 'attention will be given to return from exile after 70 years' (Jeremiah 29:10) really means 'Babylon is called to account, then Jews return from exile two years later, then 70 years ends'

Unfortunately, 'scholar' is a lost cause, but other readers of the forum can see through his nonsense.

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You introduced Stern so if there is a contradiction in his statements then that is not my problem.

You need to focus on the fact that the judgement of Babylon only occurred after 70 years was fulfilled and that was not at its Fall in 539 BCE any other interpretation is fanciful. Also, the verse clearly indicated that the land of Babylon would also be desolated which did not happen in with the Fall.

scholar JW

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

MeanMrMustard

That is the most unnatural reading, basically a non-sequitor. It doesn't follow. The 70 years of servitude could not continue past the fall of the government that they applied to. Illogical. For you to say "this could only be at the return of the Jews" is nonsense.

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There is nothing unnatural about reading carefully what is stated in Jer.25:12

-Yes, and it was ongoing at the time 25:11 was written, as referenced by v18. It was 70 years of servitude, which had gotten its start before the destruction as a vassal state.

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Impossible for the land was not in a desolate state at that time but only after the Fall in 607 BCE

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Logical fallacy - appeal to authority. But irrelevant anyway.

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Simply responding to your false claim

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No, scholar. The promise of desolation is in no way connected to the 70 years, either in verse 10 or verse 12. Verse 12 states that the seventy years would end, Babylon would be called to account, and the land would be made desolate. The desolation is not connected to the end of the 70 years, just as the desolation of Judah is not connected to the beginning in v10.

For you to hypothesize that the "calling Bablyon to account" is suddenly a drawn out process that goes beyond the reign of Babylon the most indirect, illogical, ungrammatical reading.

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Well the land was not made desolate was it in 539 BCE was it? So your interpretation does not agree with the prophecy in vs.12.

Vs 10-11 are about desolation and servitude in connection with the fall in 607 BCE and the following verse which now turns its focus on Babylon after the 70 years had ended in 537 BCE would now experience judgement. Plain and simple!!!

scholarJW

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

Rocketman123

Your last two posts are gibberish unworthy of any comment by me.

scholar JW

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

Rocketman123

So Scholar one last question to you, why do the JWS and other charlatan theologians such as the JWS not accept Jesus's words when he said no one knows of the time, some 500 year after the fall of ancient Jerusalem ?

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What a big question you are asking of the said scholar?

Jesus was not referring to past events from His day but future events from His day!

scholar JW emeritus

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

Jeffro

Question for 'scholar': if, as Watch Tower says, Daniel was brought to Babylon in 618 BCE and 3 years later was found by Nebuchadnezzar to be 10 times wiser than everyone else and given a position serving before the king, why was Daniel completely unknown to Nebuchadnezzar in 606 BCE when called to interpret a dream?

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Why ask me such a question when you are such an expert so you must have an answer. The answer is simple. By the time Neb received his first dream in 606 BCE or thereabouts based on Dan 2:1, Daniel had already been in Babylon for at least 11 years having completed his three years of training becoming unlike yourself, a very wise man. As to whether he was known to Neb during that period of training and thereafter I do not know as I unlike you I am unfamiliar with the protocols of the Babylonian Court system.

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(Answer: Watch Tower Society chronology is nuts. In the story*, Daniel is brought to Babylon in Nebuchadnezzar's first year and interprets the dream the following year during the training period, and then at the end of training all of the trainees are brought before Nebuchadnezzar for final assessment.)

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This is nuts. You need to do more research on Dan 1:1-21 and you need to discard the idea that Daniel was written four centuries after the events described in his book.

scholar JW

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

Jeffro

haha. Yes, quote the bit that Watch Tower quotes (you plagiarised the whole paragraph from Awake!, June 2012, page 14), but leave out what Stern follows with:

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No: I am very familiar with Stern and I copied and pasted that quote quite deliberately in anticipation of your reply. So, what we now have two quotes from Stern that appear to be contradictory which is simply part of the ongoing debate between archaeologists regarding the subject 'the Myth of the Empty Land' so the problem is with Stern not with WT scholars so better to stick to what God's Word says about the state of Judah during the Exile, Don't you think?

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You're so dishonest. Also, 604 to 538 exactly corresponds to Nebuchadnezzar's demand for tribute in early 604 until the Jews' return in 538.

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Dishonesty not necessary but simple 'rat cunning' in dealing with apostates and WT critics

Nowhere do I find in the Bible a period of 66 years but a period of 70 years alone unless you have a Bible that has been adjusted to fit your nonsense chronology.

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scholar JW

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

Jeffro

We're talking about the Neo-Babylonian period, not the entire Divided Monarchy. Nice try at muddying the waters. But yes, even in the broader period, where there is disagreement among scholars, my timeline (with years for Judah and Israel based only on the Bible along with Decision Table analysis where needed) is within the bounds of the various years advanced by scholars unlike Watch Tower Society gibberish which is broadly recognised as fringe nonsense

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Your timeline covers the Divided Monarchy and is part of Bible Chronology which should not be ignored as COJ does and WT scholars have always provided such a timeline. The Decision Tables as a Methodology are from Rodger Young's research which in itself is incredulous, proving nothing in resolving the 586/587 dilemma, in short, such analysis is gibberish.

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You can talk in circles all you like, but your 'interpretation' (really just going along with Watch Tower) of Babylon's 70 years is plainly irrational.

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I will leave the circular reasoning to you as you are an expert in this nonsense.

Interestingly. at least one scholar has recognized that the 70 years is of those three elements that I have long argued for which are part of a thesis so we are not alone in this subject of the true nature of the 70 years.

scholar JW

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178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

Rocketman123

The WTS conveniently and perhaps dishonestly made servitude and desolation the same thing even though there was a clear distinction to what happened to Jerusalem and its inhabitants

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No dishonesty just careful reading of the relevant is all that is required that the periods of servitude, exile and desolation are synchronistic, three elements running together as prophesied by Jeremiah, witnessed and experienced by Jeremiah, Daniel and Ezekiel and historically validated by Ezra the historian further confirmed by Josephus.

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What is also interesting is lets say we use the year 537 as Scholar does and go back to 605 when Nebuchadnezzar first overthrew Jerusalem, you still only arrive at 68 years

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Bad math. You can only 607 if you go back 70 years from 537 BCE. Try again!

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The true desolation didn't start until 586 BCE.

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Incorrect: 607 BCE is the only possible date

scholar JW

178

Interesting Find with Chronology

by Kelley959 in

i hope this is in the right area.

i've been studying the 2520 days/years 607/587/586 debacle.

for a while now i have felt 1914 was wrong.

scholar

Jeffro

Nope. Wrong again. Not only are you obviously wrong about the duration of the exile (as distinct from Babylon's 70 years of power from 609 to 539), but parts of Judea remained populated through the exilic period (Ephraim Stern).

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Nope! Wrong again: The 70 years of the Exile is identical with the 70 years of Babylonish Servitude along with 70 years of Desolation.

Did the Israelites remain captive in Babylon for 70 years as the Bible foretold? Note the comments of a leading Israeli archaeologist, Ephraim Stern. “From 604 B.C.E. to 538 B.C.E.—there is a complete gap in evidence suggesting occupation. In all that time, not a single town destroyed by the Babylonians was resettled.” The so-called gap in which there was no occupation or resettling of conquered territory corresponds closely to Israel’s exile in Babylon from 607 to 537 B.C.E.—2 Chronicles 36:20, 21.

So you should pay attention to Stern and while we are at it you should also read Avraham Faust!!-----Additionally, though Josephus erroneously gives 70 years in one location, he correctly gives 50 in others, but also indicates a 182.5 year period that is not compatible with Watch Tower Society chronology.----Josephus identifies the 70 years four times in agreement with WT interpretation and Chronology and on the 5th occasion he refers to a period of 50 years from an event within the 70 year period.
scholar JW